A fight for justice

**Captain Stubing** · 28-03-2007, 12:06 AM

I was riding my motorcycle (stupidly uninsured for four months) to work, when an unlicenced person pulled out in front of me (from my left, and from a give way sign). This was in June last year.

The end result was my bike is a write off (bent frame, forks, and a "grey import" so it's hard to value)

I sent off a letter of demand to the driver of the car, and received back a letter from her lawyers, saying that my bike was worth bugger all, and they were contesting the amount I was claiming. My research says there's less than 20 in Queensland. (try finding a 1987 VF750C Magna, or in the USA a VF700C with 33k on the clock)

I sent off another letter, to which the reply way, they were questioning the value of my bike.

I then found she was contesting the "unlicensed driving' and 'drive without due care' charges, so I delayed my response until that had gone through the court system.

Once she entered a plea of guilty to the charges made, I sent off another letter to her solicitors.

I got a reply today.

The nuts and bolts of the reply is, that the accident happened further down the road from where I came off and the Prosecution alleged that the defendant entered from a side street on the other side of the road I was travelling on. I am apparently fabricating my version.

An Engineer's report attached said that the accident couldn't have happened the way I described it (I only had the grandstand seat!)

Their punch line is... if I continue to ask for payment for my bike, they will counter-sue for $1900 damage to her '83 Camira.

Has anyone had experience with lawyers using overbearing tactics to stop people from pursuing their claims. I'm assuming her lawyers are trying to intimidate me so their client doesn't have to pay.

My next step is the Small Claims Tribunal... me against her 'wordy' lawyers.

merlin · 28-03-2007, 07:12 AM

Why don't you just lawyer up too?

mowog · 28-03-2007, 07:26 AM

We just had an accident with an uninsured unlicensed unregistered motor bike. He was in the wrong lots of people supported our side of the story. The upside for us we were in insured. The Territory will be back today.

Her lawyer is just trying to scare you off... But its now time for you to get legal help.

agony · 28-03-2007, 07:29 AM

Good luck mate. Sounds like this is going to end up being a long drawn out case thats if you choose to continue to fight it.

**Full Noise** · 28-03-2007, 07:31 AM

$1900 damage to a bloody 83 Camira.

WTF… Is it gold plated?

$1900 would buy every Camira in Brisbane, and then some. Get some legal help. They’re trying it on, don’t let them pull a stunt like this. Fight it all the way.

**Captain Stubing** · 28-03-2007, 07:36 AM

I think I will end up investing in a lawyer. I'm not going to let it go - I am in the right, at the end of the day.

The tactics they are using are making my blood boil, and only make me want to pursue it to the end.

OLDFORDNUT · 28-03-2007, 07:52 AM

hahaha you gotta love that,she has pleaded guilty to driving without due care,youve all but won case already and they know it,they are relying on you giving in without a lawyer's advice.f--- em. as for camira,even my local wreckers will only pick em up for scrap value.

james22 · 28-03-2007, 08:47 AM

If it was me, time to go hunting... :jab:

GXL078 · 28-03-2007, 09:09 AM

At least you havent been forking out money for insurance for years only to be told the same thing. I never saw the point of insuring my bike either. I figured any accident wouldn't be my fault and, being just an old Yamaha trail bike if It got damaged I would either fix it or cut my losses and toss it. I didn't think it would do much damage to anything else either. If I was to run over a person, that's covered by the greenslip.

Squalo · 28-03-2007, 11:40 AM

Contact the Ombudsman - should mention that in NSW at least their brief only extends to damages up to $3k, so if you're chasing more than that they can't help, not sure if same rule applies in Qld. They can however provide you with excellent information regarding what other options are available to you.

Have you had the bike checked by an assessor (even if uninsured you'll need this to press your claim, your guestimate isn't good enough). You will need a full itemised repair quote.

Also, were the police involved? If so, their report needs to be 'verified' (again, not sure if this is an NSW only thing, check Qld processes) before it is valid to be used in your claim.

I agree that it's time to seek legal assistance. You've got to get into the system, to beat the system... good luck with it.

Ringo · 28-03-2007, 12:42 PM

She has admitted to and been convicted of not giving way yet they will contest the damages and want you to pay for it ? WTF? She was in the wrong..clear and simple - fight it matey.

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 28-03-2007, 01:18 PM

I once had a problem like this! I simply found out where the lowlife lawyer lived and hand delivered it to his door after hours. Was polite as hell but also looked him in the eye the whole time . Amazing about a week later they paid for repairs to me car !

I was the innocent party who was in the right , and there was no disputing the fact ! Dont let them weasle out of your right to compensation mate !

xe351 · 28-03-2007, 01:38 PM

the bikes gotta be worth more than a couple of camiras surely

EBII Fairmont · 28-03-2007, 04:48 PM

Back in the day, when my dad was driving his XC, the moron on his left who was just ahead. She did a u-turn without looking resulting in my dad hitting her.

She had her lawyer send us a letter to cover damages to the vehicle and her medical cost (she was pregnant at the time of the accident). We found out coincidently she was the receptionist at the law firm. So my dad just went to a lawyer and had them send a letter also stating the facts. Never heard from them again.

Go speak to a lawyer and find out what can and can't be done and your chances of winning. It wont hurt anyone if you call a lawyer and ask them a few questions.

paulie0735 · 28-03-2007, 05:07 PM

Sounds like they are bluffing. The value of the bike should be easy enough to prove. Did you receive any medical attention? If so the police will have a report filed. If you didn't than its time you got that stiff neck seen to!! When they get an inquiry from the TAC about an unlicensed driver causing injury I think you may find the tune they are humming may change a little. Good luck.

devilcv8 · 28-03-2007, 07:21 PM

I'd suggest heading over and reading http://www.netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34298
as it describes a "similar" situation and actions to take.
If the mods don't like me posting another forum then pm me for the details.

XR Martin · 28-03-2007, 07:36 PM

Seeing as she was unlicenced it shouldnt matter if you were in the right, wrong or whatever. Fact remains she shouldnt have been on the road, regardless of the situation.

Depending on the cost of the bike, just take her to Civil Court. If you show the facts, its very unlikey you will loose and wont cost you anything. Send her a summons to appear and you can bet the cheque will be in the mail within hours. If not they they would be stupid to try the courts.

XR Martin · 28-03-2007, 07:38 PM

This may help (the Magistrates court is what you want if the bike is worth less than $50k)

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/about/process.htm

Small claims

http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/courts...mallClaims.htm

BTW Her lawyers arnt allowed in a small claims Civil Court. Its only you vs her.

How much is your bike worth? Small claims court is only upto $7500, Magistrates is up to $50k.

peedee · 28-03-2007, 07:46 PM

If she can afford a lawyer why was the car uninsurerd and her unliscenced?
Smells a bit fishy to me and as for it being a camira you could build one from spare parts at the wrecker drive away for $9.99

**Captain Stubing** · 28-03-2007, 08:28 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone. I might just clarify and/or answer a few points.

My bike is a grey import, ie it was never imported into Australia when it was new. I had it towed to a local dealer to have it quoted on, Unfortunately they weren't able to give me a quote after 6 weeks, so I collected it and found a competant smash repairer. I got two itemised quotes for the repairs, both in excess of $6k. Some of the parts are no longer made or available. The forks are bent, the frame bent, tank dented, exhaust cracked etc.

Because my bike was not common (less than a dozen in Qld), the replacement cost is up around the same price. I've only found one other for sale ($6.5k) in the last 7 months or so.

The injuries I received were torn ligaments in one wrist, lower back problems and a lot of skin off my posterior. I was on light duties at work for 6 months, and am still limited with what my wrist can take. I've started a third party injury claim for that side of the incident.

The car (I think a Camira loosely comes under that definition

) she was driving was registered and insured, but her being unlicenced voided the insurance.

I've done my research on the process to follow, and have experience in giving evidence in court, so that's not a problem. I'll be going down the small claims court soon.

I guess I get a bit paranoid about things going pear-shaped, as they have since this happened. I've not had the 'pleasure' of dealing with such an ethical profession in this way before in this particular circumstance.

That's good info XR6 Martin, that she won't be allowed lawyers in Small Claims!

Although I get to drive the AU to work, I can't wait to be back on two wheels.

Ford_V8 · 28-03-2007, 08:44 PM

lol write them back a letter ,

"Dear Person X,

In response to your recent letter regarding valuation of my motorcycle I would like to inform you that the particular vehicle in question is one of only x currently registered in Australia. Hence, the motorcycle is valued accordingly. I encourage any parties suggesting otherwise to locate an available (x bike) for the price quoted.

On the note of valuation of your clients 1983 model Camira, I suggest you take a dump, place it in a bag and travel to the nearest market. This accumulated revenue should allow for the purchase of up to and including 12 1983 Camiras.

The engineers report found attached to your previous letter is of no indication as to the cause or effect of the accident. If the engineer believes he can calculate exactly how, when and why the incident occured simply by evaluating the damage of my vehicle I would advise him to contact the nearest engineering college immediately with his ground breaking new magic formula.

If your client, (whom I might add recently pleaded guilty to an unlicenced driving charge, which coincidentally occured at the same time as the incident in question) feels it is neccessary to harass me further with false accusations I will have no other option but to take matters more seriously.

Have a nice day

"

GCFordChic · 28-03-2007, 08:58 PM

^^^^ classic love it!

**Captain Stubing** · 28-03-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_V8

On the note of valuation of your clients 1983 model Camira, I suggest you take a dump, place it in a bag and travel to the nearest market. This accumulated revenue should allow for the purchase of up to and including 12 1983 Camiras.

Hehehe! I see I'm not alone in my love of Camira's!

Seriously, though, I suggested that they find me a bike of the same make/model/mileage a couple of letters ago.

Then they replied they were investigating the value I was claiming for the bike. The next letter from them is that they are not paying, and that "any proceedings instituted on your behalf will be strenuously defended and a counterclaim in respect to the damages suffered by our client will be instituted, and a claim for costs on an indemnity basis will be made

Edit: Yes, funny how this Civil Engineer can make an opinion without examining the damage to both vehicles!

fangq · 28-03-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

I was riding my motorcycle (stupidly uninsured for four months) to work, when an unlicenced person pulled out in front of me (from my left, and from a give way sign). This was in June last year.

The end result was my bike is a write off (bent frame, forks, and a "grey import" so it's hard to value)

I sent off a letter of demand to the driver of the car, and received back a letter from her lawyers, saying that my bike was worth bugger all, and they were contesting the amount I was claiming. My research says there's less than 20 in Queensland. (try finding a 1987 VF750C Magna, or in the USA a VF700C with 33k on the clock)

I sent off another letter, to which the reply way, they were questioning the value of my bike.

I then found she was contesting the "unlicensed driving' and 'drive without due care' charges, so I delayed my response until that had gone through the court system.

Once she entered a plea of guilty to the charges made, I sent off another letter to her solicitors.

I got a reply today.

The nuts and bolts of the reply is, that the accident happened further down the road from where I came off and the Prosecution alleged that the defendant entered from a side street on the other side of the road I was travelling on. I am apparently fabricating my version.

An Engineer's report attached said that the accident couldn't have happened the way I described it (I only had the grandstand seat!)

Their punch line is... if I continue to ask for payment for my bike, they will counter-sue for $1900 damage to her '83 Camira.

Has anyone had experience with lawyers using overbearing tactics to stop people from pursuing their claims. I'm assuming her lawyers are trying to intimidate me so their client doesn't have to pay.

My next step is the Small Claims Tribunal... me against her 'wordy' lawyers.

If she is contesting charges, I assume that the police were involved.
What statements were made on the day ?
Steve

MO · 28-03-2007, 09:13 PM

Tell them your going straight to the high Court in Canberra and are going to pursue them under constitional law ....watch them back track.

first rule of all court proceedings like a poker game ...bluff.

Swanny your a cop think about it???

**Captain Stubing** · 28-03-2007, 09:23 PM

Fanq, she made a plea of guilty to charges of "unlicensed driving" and "driving without due consideration for other road users" Basically those charges are between her and the Crown. Her lawyer is saying that the guilty plea was made after negotiation with the prosecutor, and no responsibility for the accident was accepted.

I've got to get in touch with the prosecutor to confirm this.

Yes, John, I know now it's a bluff. When I first read their last letter yesterday, it just got to me. Rhyme and reason doesn't always kick in straight away.

MO · 28-03-2007, 09:33 PM

Hang in there Swanny ...you'll find a way..just be cool calm and collected..it will come to you.

Remember the best form of defence is an offence.

**Captain Stubing** · 28-03-2007, 11:08 PM

I'll be appearing to do that, John.

I suppose I was asking if any other forum members had been in this situation before, and what the end result was - dealing with law firms.

As I said before, I'm not going to let it go... I had a grandstand view of the accident, and I won't be called a liar.

Pedro · 29-03-2007, 07:34 AM

Hi Swanny
A good no cost start for correct advice is the Citizens Advice Bureau. I used then once and the adviser was a retired QC! www.advicebureau.org.au

banarcus · 29-03-2007, 08:56 AM

If you're in the job swanny, you know how those solicitors behave. And for her to accept a guilty plea to a lesser offence means that she has entered a plea of GUILTY regardless what the gibbering solicitor says. Go speak with your union mate, they will have a civil lawyer that they recommend for your battles...