SS commodore off to the states

bathurst77 · 09-01-2007, 07:33 AM

GM are hoping for large scale exports of aussie build v8 commies to be badges as Pontiac G8.

from SMH.com.au
AUSTRALIA'S biggest-selling car, the Holden Commodore, will be exported to the US, it has been unofficially confirmed at the Detroit motor show.

The announcement was not due to be made until the Chicago motor show next month, but the worldwide head of product development at General Motors, Bob Lutz, gave away more than he was supposed to during a news conference.

Just minutes after Holden officials refused to answer questions about the Commodore's export program, Mr Lutz revealed details about the deal.

The Commodore SS, a V8- powered sports sedan, will be sold as a Pontiac from late this year or early next year.

Holden expects to export 30,000 Commodores annually, about half what it sells locally.

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," Mr Lutz said, adding that Holden could export up to 50,000 Commodores a year if the model was priced correctly.

Mr Lutz said the export of the Holden Monaro as a Pontiac GTO from 2003 to last year (during which 40,000 of the V8 coupes were sold) brought Holden's expertise to the attention of its parent company, General Motors in North America.

"We are yet to officially announce it," Mr Lutz said of the Commodore export deal, once he realised that he had made a faux pas.

He eventually admitted that selling the V8 version of the Commodore in the US was such a logical thing to do as it filled a void in Pontiac's line-up.

"While [the Monaro's] export program may not have fulfilled all of our hopes and dreams in terms of profitability and volume, it did break the ice on global programs."

merlin · 09-01-2007, 07:39 AM

I reckon the Yanks will love it, especially with the stripe package - I've been to a few international forums and the Yanks always go on about how they would love our cars (both the SS and the XR's).

As long as they don't dodgy up the cosmetics like they did with Monaro...

**Bluehoon** · 09-01-2007, 07:40 AM

Will be interesting, states needs something that we have got.... Big RWD performance cars...

Can anyone confirm the VE platform was indeed LHD and RHD capable???

Cheers

MrSparkle · 09-01-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

As long as they don't dodgy up the cosmetics like they did with Monaro...

Well for starters, being a Pontiac, it will get a grille and front bar as ugly as a hatful of @rseholes. Apart from that I'd expect no significant changes - maybe a change to taillight design?

Boss 290 · 09-01-2007, 08:13 AM

if they are only importing the ss then it will get a power jump. they should try importing the clubbys there. fpv should send over the f6 and the gt with a bit more low end grunt. ford/fpv are missing great oppertunities

FPV8U · 09-01-2007, 08:14 AM

Wonder if it will be as succesfull as the GTO

:

Hally · 09-01-2007, 08:22 AM

VE is currently built in LHD for Saudi Arabia.

BadMac · 09-01-2007, 08:25 AM

Ford US still have their heads up their a$$es. Nothing outside of the US is any good. They will learn.

As for the VE. Reports are sheetmetal and aero package changes as well as a different interior for the G8 version.

Yes the VE was designed to be left/right hook from the start. Hence the exports to the UAE. Also being reported that the SSV and R8 will go to UK as VXR8 and VX??.

Another report around also pegs the Statesman going to the US as the new Impala.

And here lies the Holden strategy.
Don't dicount in Aus, sell only full price and take a cut in numbers, don't discount for fleets and such that just drop resales into the toilet. Instead make up the volume in high value exports. Winner both ways. Big margins on local sales, buyers get higher resales and the "left over" production goes off shore.

And another forum fact (ie I can't confirm it but some forums are reporting it). The VE chassis will also be built in Canada and have other sheetmetal applied (Camaro and Camaro Convetible at least). This is where the new Monaro (if it happens) will be built and imported back into Aus.

And finally, it has been reported that GM/Holden are evaluating the EFIJY for production due to the phynominal response as all shows. The one off is the most in demand car for shows at present and has cleaned up the awards around the world. Persoanlly I can't see it being built as it would be too expensive. But its VERY likely we will see the Torana previewed again soon in production ready form as Holden branches out of the Aus only builds big cars club.

BadMac · 09-01-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Wonder if it will be as succesfull as the GTO

:

You call 40,000 exports for Aus (ie Australian jobs) a failure?

Yes it didn't sell as well as the top end predictions, but it bettered the mid range expectations. But as the article says it opened the door. So for Holden it was wildly successful.

Maybe Ford could learn a thing or 2. A loss leader to get a toe in the door might be the recipe we need.

Ford_Boy · 09-01-2007, 08:48 AM

holden is so well intergrated with gm where as ford aus hardly has anything to do with ford us. i can't understand how holden can keep claiming to be aussie but people still think ford aus as yank cars. i bet more components in the xr6 and xr8 are more aussie then any of the holden vehicles.

why doesnt ford market this better?. i mean they make there own engines for the falcons. instead of dropping in a big v8 from overseas. i couldnt care less if a car is aussie or not but holden cant keep claiming they are so much more aussie. why do you think holden killed ford 3-1 in that debate with craig lowndes and rick kelly? all you heard was they're as aussie as meat pies blah blah. i say good on holden for increasing their product and maintaing such good marketing. ford aus need a new angle and they need to export.

4.9 EF Futura · 09-01-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMac

The VE chassis will also be built in Canada and have other sheetmetal applied (Camaro and Camaro Convetible at least). This is where the new Monaro (if it happens) will be built and imported back into Aus.
.

Would the VE chassis not be a global "platform" designed jointly by GM affiliates around the globe?

bathurst77 · 09-01-2007, 09:21 AM

With sales of Falcon stagnant, Mitsu on its knees, (I read recently that the 380 plant has the worlds lowest production for any "Mainstream" car) anything that creates jobs building 40-50,000 cars for export here in australia can only be a good thing for everyone.

much as i hate to say it, "hats off to holden".

I too think falcon (esp xr6T and FPV) and territory would be a great seller in some export markets, but the current models would need radical (expensive) redesign and retooling. And with Orion only about 12 months away its too late for the Barra now.
Hopefully orion is designed with LHD and Euro/US design rules in mind, tho from what I have read thats not the case.

So Orion has to be profitable on sales of about 45,000 locally plus a small number in NZ and other low volume market and perhaps another 15-20,000 territory. Where holden can invest in Commodore with returns of 55,000 locally and another 50,000 in the states, plus mid-east sales for commy and statesman, plus NZ etc, plus the spin off models (adventra? who knows what else).

So if the factory makes about $5,000 profit per car and a cars model life is 8 years, that means ford are loooking at 65,000 cars @ $5,000 per car for 8 years which is about $2.6 billion over 8 years for both falcon and territory combined, but holden are looking towards profits of almost double that. (Even if $5,000 per car is wildly wrong, the ratio is still about the same.)

Which means holden can invest more in expensive R&D and tooling and build techniques etc with a lower standing cost per car, which means a better commodore at a lower price, which means Falcon is less competitive and has even lower sales.....

Will orion be a cut priced reskin of the BA underpinings and thus dissapointing? Will it be the "Final Falcon"?

The bottom is falling from medium large SUVs (Territory) and the BF sales are in the doldrums.

Fairlane/LTD has crashed. What happened to Tom Gs comments that he wanted to concentrate on rekindling Fairlane and LTD? Why arent FPV doing something to them? The Galaxie show car was a good start.

Ford have to do something radical and soon i think. I think Ford Oz are in for rocky times ahead if they dont.

MITCHAY · 09-01-2007, 10:15 AM

Off topic didn't Ford trademark/patented the name "G8"? I thought I read this in another thread.

Dave_au · 09-01-2007, 10:16 AM

Did Ford Aus even send any of our current falcons over to the states as a media appertiser?

xbgs351 · 09-01-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Did Ford Aus even send any of our current falcons over to the states as a media appertiser?

One of the magazines took a BA over to Europe. It's styling was that bland that nobody even noticed it.

csv8 · 09-01-2007, 10:34 AM

and it can stay there...............

csv8 · 09-01-2007, 10:38 AM

Holden SS-V to Pontiac Grand Prix? Easy!
This time, GM has thought ahead

By Angus MacKenzie
Photography by the Manufacturers
The new Commodore has been engineered from the get-go to be left-hand drive and comply with all world safety standards. Even the fuel tank is ahead of the rear axle--changing that for the GTO was one of the reasons GM couldn't spend more money giving the Monaro coupe more Pontiac style.

The new Commodore is a clean-sheet car, so it looks fresh, contemporary, and muscular. GM's head of North American design, Mike Simcoe, knows the car intimately: An Aussie, he oversaw all the initial work on the new Commodore in GM's Melbourne, Australia, design studio before being promoted to Detroit.

A relatively simple front fascia change incorporating the Pontiac split grille, plus the usual Pontiac branding details and official U.S. safety certification and emissions calibration are about all this car needs to be ready to roll on U.S. roads. Holden sources estimate the work could be completed for a mere $15 million. Building a new Grand Prix in Australia also would help Holden maximize production efficiency of its assembly plant in Elizabeth, South Australia. Until recently, this plant was running three shifts a day to meet demand, but high gas prices (Australians are paying about $4.30 a gallon) have hit Commodore sales hard in the past 18 months--sales of the runout model were the lowest in 12 years. Export market sales also have been hit. Getting a Pontiac Grand Prix into production would probably take the best part of 12 months, by which time initial demand for the new Commodorewill have eased. A Grand Prix version could take up the slack left by decreased local demand.

Nashy86 · 09-01-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Would the VE chassis not be a global "platform" designed jointly by GM affiliates around the globe?

Yes i belive this is true, its the way all the companies are looking these days to eliminate un-necesary development costs
This was explained to me a while back using the example of the Mustang: Ford US spent $millions developing chasis & suspension etc and the end result was basically our XR8 setup with a tweak.
The aim for the VE platorm (isn't it called the "Alpha Platform" or something like that?) is to reduce this kinda stupid spending so that the car can be made here a a commo, or alterrnatively set up the robotic programming & jigs in a US plant to make the same car with a different badge and bodywork, the only difference being the shape of the die they use to stamp the panels etc, but the assembly and fitting the cars together being the same

I think thats how they set it up, part of the reason why the cost was so high. Of course i may be wrong...

**ebxr8240** · 09-01-2007, 11:03 AM

My brother has an 05 GTO [Goat as they are affectionately called] over there. Every one who sees it and rides in it asks where he got this from? They all love i!! As my brother said they [Pontiac] didn't really push their sales or at least other G.M outlets didn't compared to other car under their umbrella...I guess it was a little political?? U.S jobs etc ????

xafalcongs · 09-01-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyEB1

This was explained to me a while back using the example of the Mustang: Ford US spent $millions developing chasis & suspension etc and the end result was basically our XR8 setup with a tweak.

No matter how much I would like for Ford US to sell a version of the BF over here, the current Mustang shares nothing with any product in the Ford AU line. The current Mustang chassis is based on a highly modified (cheapened) version of the current Jag S-Type and the now defunct Lincoln LS. It has no double A-arm front suspension--it gets lower a-arms with an upper strut like an economy car. The rear suspension is the 8.8" Ford solid axle like used in the US Ranger and F-150 pickups with a 3-link and an antiquatied panhard bar--heck the 1982 XE Falcon had a Watts Link! The Mustang has a nice solid chassis and good looks but there are short cuts galore in its execution.

xafalcongs · 09-01-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMac

You call 40,000 exports for Aus (ie Australian jobs) a failure?

Yes it didn't sell as well as the top end predictions, but it bettered the mid range expectations. But as the article says it opened the door. So for Holden it was wildly successful.

Maybe Ford could learn a thing or 2. A loss leader to get a toe in the door might be the recipe we need.

Well after 3 years, HEAVY discounting, and very low to 0% interest financing, the Pontiac GTO sold 40,745---roughly 13,582/yr in a country of 300M. Yep it was a flop. To put that number into perspective, GM killed off the Firebird/Trans Am due to it's slow sales.....in it's worst year it still sold almost 40,000. The Firebird/Trans Am was also cheaper to produce due sharing a platform with the higher volume Camaro and being built in Canada where shipping costs were very low, NAFTA = no tariffs, and the exchange rate stayed around US.75-.80 cents to the C$1.

4.9 EF Futura · 09-01-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyEB1

Yes i belive this is true, its the way all the companies are looking these days to eliminate un-necesary development costs
This was explained to me a while back using the example of the Mustang: Ford US spent $millions developing chasis & suspension etc and the end result was basically our XR8 setup with a tweak.
The aim for the VE platorm (isn't it called the "Alpha Platform" or something like that?) is to reduce this kinda stupid spending so that the car can be made here a a commo, or alterrnatively set up the robotic programming & jigs in a US plant to make the same car with a different badge and bodywork, the only difference being the shape of the die they use to stamp the panels etc, but the assembly and fitting the cars together being the same

I think thats how they set it up, part of the reason why the cost was so high. Of course i may be wrong...

Yes, it does provide the local manufacturer a nice little catch phrase... "invested $1 billion into the new commodore"... well, the GM group probably did. I didnt know GMH had that kind of cash laying around....

It's something Nissan (and prob other jap manufacturers) has always excelled at... just ask any mates who use the term "Strawberry faced" to describe their fully sick drifter!!!

09-01-2007, 11:31 AM

I say good on Holden and I hope it brings them billions.

We all know that Ford Aust are planning on a similar venture to the middle east. But I don't like our chances of breaking into the US market with all the thick heads controlling Ford US.

XH98 · 09-01-2007, 11:33 AM

Already seen 2 left hook SS Commy's getting around with a Chev badge on the grille and Lumina badge on the tailgate. Presumably they were for middle eastern export, so left hookers do exist.

AWD Chaser · 09-01-2007, 12:25 PM

Ford walked all over the market with the Territory and Holden just watched and waited, and then realised they were too late for anyone to care.... it just seems like the same thing is happening with Ford Aus with the export market of big 6's and big 8 RWD vehicles.... Put the F6 in the Territory and send that to US to take on the Escalade, etc, and send over a few performance models...

Ford ownes the patents for Fairlane (Suffix) G6, G8, GV6, and GV8, so Pontica G8 should be OK, although Ford can contest it, they would prob loose because the G8 would only be sold in America, and Fairlane G8 only in Aus.

Lukeyson · 09-01-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Off topic didn't Ford trademark/patented the name "G8"? I thought I read this in another thread.

I was thinking that too, maybe only an aussie trademark though ?

OzJavelin · 09-01-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Wonder if it will be as succesfull as the GTO

:

It's all in a name. If they called the Monaro a Pontiac Tempest or LeMans it probably would have been more warmly received than GTO .. any car that automotive enthusiasts call "The Great One" had big shoes to fill. And with the Euro styling of the GTO it was never going to please Americans wanting scoops, stripes, spoilers, etc. Hell, traditional Pontiac styling queues were RamAir, Shaker, hood tac .. and the screaming chicken.

I hope the SS does well in the USA. If it doesn't we'll all be doomed to an "imports-only" Australia, and the Falcon will become a rebadged FWD V6 Fusion.

DailyDriver · 09-01-2007, 01:03 PM

Well done Holden, I hope Ford Aus can emulate something similar and bring a new 'Falcon' to the States, otherwise Ford in Aus will not be around for that much longer...

Jayden · 10-01-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyDriver

Well done Holden, I hope Ford Aus can emulate something similar and bring a new 'Falcon' to the States, otherwise Ford in Aus will not be around for that much longer...

Hm, yeah. Its impossible to determine their strategy. It basically has always revolved around the Falcon as an exclusive car for Australia only because us Australians wont buy into their Focus's or Mondeos. Ever since the XD each new model build involves the words "Wonder if we can import a European car now?" from someone in the Ford board room.

Good on GM for opening their eyes wider to outside cars, now someone in Ford start building bridges if you want it in the states too they wont come to us.

Personally I dont care if it stays in aus, since this is where im going to stay and the fact I can have something they cant have and want fills me with a sense of national pride :thebirds: jk.

AWD Chaser · 10-01-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayden

Hm, yeah. Its impossible to determine their strategy. It basically has always revolved around the Falcon as an exclusive car for Australia only because us Australians wont buy into their Focus's or Mondeos. Ever since the XD each new model build involves the words "Wonder if we can import a European car now?" from someone in the Ford board room.

Good on GM for opening their eyes wider to outside cars, now someone in Ford start building bridges if you want it in the states too they wont come to us.

Personally I dont care if it stays in aus, since this is where im going to stay and the fact I can have something they cant have and want fills me with a sense of national pride :thebirds: jk.

But if that national pride meant that Ford stopped building Falcons because there just weren't enough funds...