Anyone been a victim of the IR laws?

SVG · 18-06-2006, 04:28 PM

A friend of mine was sacked recently with no reason given and had not been there long enough to get a reasonable pay out. Unfair dismissal laws don't cover it either. What a crock of sh|t!
The worst part is that true fair dinkum Aussies are getting sacked from their current jobs and replaced with cheap, uneducated overseas workers. These same overseas workers are making it difficult for genuine Australians to apply for jobs.
Thats my rant for the day...

Ultimate · 18-06-2006, 04:35 PM

Yes those laws only effect companies under 20 people but dont they. Or its 100 or some number.

**Falcon Coupe** · 18-06-2006, 04:37 PM

I have been a subcontractor since finishing my apprenticeship (19 years ago), i can be sacked with no payout or reason at any time, the bottom line is, a good worker that gets along with others will never be sacked, all the I.R laws do in this case is help an employer lose excess baggage without penalizing them for it.

Dazza XLT · 18-06-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

These same overseas workers are making it difficult for genuine Australians to apply for jobs.

But if no-one wants to study a trade (Apprenticships/Traineeships), who else will do the work? People are shipping in workers from Indonesia and the like to do jobs they cannot find experienced Aussie People for... after months of advertising...
Everyone is heading off to Uni instead (I have nothing against that)
But people need to remember there is plenty of money in the trade sector too.

:

XA-Coupe · 18-06-2006, 04:48 PM

Publishing is a cut throat business

Sourbastard · 18-06-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I have been a subcontractor since finishing my apprenticeship (19 years ago), i can be sacked with no payout or reason at any time, the bottom line is, a good worker that gets along with others will never be sacked, all the I.R laws do in this case is help an employer lose excess baggage without penalizing them for it.

Thats not always the Case. I've been fired twice from companies after doing excellent work, both due to the company being mismanaged. Both companies eventually went bankrupt.

Outbackjack · 18-06-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Thats not always the Case. I've been fired twice from companies after doing excellent work, both due to the company being mismanaged. Both companies eventually went bankrupt.

Bingo. It is a myth that good workers will never be sacked. With all the jobs that are going overseas at the moment, means that no-one is imune. It is happening in the company that I work for at the moment. Many excellent application programmers, system analysts, system administrators, system engineers, one guy has 32 years with the company. All have been told that their jobs are being relocated to Bangalore(SP?). This puely economics over humanity. The guy with 32 years has been told he will get 6 months pay because of his longevity in the company!!! The rest get squat. Now can someone please tell me how this is good for Australia??? many of our customers are walking with their cheque books.... Good.

Mods, I promise not to get into any slinging matches here, promise!!

Ultimate · 18-06-2006, 05:27 PM

Aussie worked >$14 a hour. Imports <$3 a hour.

For example not saying where its at but there is a contractor bring in timber cutters, working them for somewhere to stay and food. There chinese. They cut about 600 bucks work of timber a day. He has 5 of them. It costs him what 10bucks a day in food and a caravan in the scrub.

Jeff

svo347 · 18-06-2006, 05:29 PM

Got told that work was slowing down and someone had to be layed off, since i was the last to join the company i was it.
On a more personal note, I asked for a Hepatitis shot due to the work we were asked to carry out , welding polypipe into a landfill area where they suck methane from and use it to pump power back into the Grid. My work collegue moved afew bags when 3 syringes fell out hmmmmm ohhhh dear.
My employer at the time says that his employees have been working there for 6 mths without a problem. My question did raise afew hands at work, this was the real reason i was layed off, he also mentioned he had no probs with my work and if i could finish the day off as i had a bit of work to complete.ppppfffttt thanx for the opportunity mate but im gone.
Back into working construction again 120K p/a.

Outbackjack · 18-06-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate

Aussie worked >$14 a hour. Imports <$3 a hour.

For example not saying where its at but there is a contractor bring in timber cutters, working them for somewhere to stay and food. There chinese. They cut about 600 bucks work of timber a day. He has 5 of them. It costs him what 10bucks a day in food and a caravan in the scrub.

Jeff

And this present government probably thinks that he is a hero.

kempster1 · 18-06-2006, 06:04 PM

Who is paying there tax and super?

I do not think he is a hero

BENT_8 · 18-06-2006, 06:29 PM

Funny subject this, as i made this exact comment in regards to imported labour only a few weeks ago and got flamed for it.
As far as im concerned this is nothing new to this country and is only following a prescedent set 25 years ago.
Whilst the newly out of school, unskilled Aussie bloke was waiting in line at DSS the new immigrant was earning a living in the lucky country doing the Aussie blokes job.
This scenario was allowed to become common practice and has been gradually festering into what we have today.
The only difference now is that we have a Government that has cleared the path to lay off good Aussie workers and bring in Foreigners.
I'ts just a shame that it has gone this far before we have woken up to it, and for the next generation could prove to be financially crippling.
Now instead of welcoming our new neighbours, we look sideways at them with contempt at their success at our own expense.

wodahs · 18-06-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate

Yes those laws only effect companies under 20 people but dont they. Or its 100 or some number.

yes tiz 100 employes
how ever thats 100 per state ( coz it afects me n i work for a company that aust wide and bout 2000 workers or more but only 70 at my depo ) may be even work place

Scott · 18-06-2006, 07:06 PM

IMO, plenty of companies have been screwed by crappy staff for too long. I defy anyone on this forum to say they have never met people who take "liberties" from their employer be it in the form of sickies, laziness, stupidness, malliciousness or just plain theft or sabotage. At the same time we see an employer on ACA or TT every other day screwing their staff. One thing's guaranteed though, more staff screw bosses than bosses screwing staff through sheer weight of numbers.

It would be great if there was a rule that protected only good employers and good employee's, unfortunately, the worst of both have screwed us all.

cedric · 18-06-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I have been a subcontractor since finishing my apprenticeship (19 years ago), i can be sacked with no payout or reason at any time, the bottom line is, a good worker that gets along with others will never be sacked, all the I.R laws do in this case is help an employer lose excess baggage without penalizing them for it.

never a truer word spoken

Outbackjack · 18-06-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

IMO, plenty of companies have been screwed by crappy staff for too long. I defy anyone on this forum to say they have never met people who take "liberties" from their employer be it in the form of sickies, laziness, stupidness, malliciousness or just plain theft or sabotage. At the same time we see an employer on ACA or TT every other day screwing their staff. One thing's guaranteed though, more staff screw bosses than bosses screwing staff through sheer weight of numbers.

It would be great if there was a rule that protected only good employers and good employee's, unfortunately, the worst of both have screwed us all.

Crappy have employees have always been around, I agree. But these new laws are screwing good and bad equally. For every crappy employee there has been a crappy compamy. These crappy companies, usualy small business, now have a free hand to screw even harder. We will not see the true effects of these new laws until after the next election, and only then if, god forbid, the current lot get back in. Companies are holding back so as not to influence the voting public. If the incumbents get back, god help us all.

Outbackjack · 18-06-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cedric

never a truer word spoken

What crap. Read my earlier post. Why was this "crappy" worker of 32 years not fired years ago. There was a process in place that let the empoyer sack who they wanted, there were checks and balances..... Now there is nothing.

kempster1 · 18-06-2006, 07:31 PM

Outback are you a union rep ??

XA-Coupe · 18-06-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outbackjack

Mods, I promise not to get into any slinging matches here, promise!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by qoutbackjack

What crap. <snip>

This isn't off to a good start.

XA-Coupe · 18-06-2006, 07:34 PM

I'm going to spell something out. If people cannot discuss this properly then the whole subject will go the way of sexual/political/religious and other threads that people cannot post about ....

Dazza XLT · 18-06-2006, 07:36 PM

I reckon IR will be added to that list shortly.
Leave a space for it just in case.

Scott · 18-06-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

There was a process in place that let the empoyer sack who they wanted, there were checks and balances.....

There was also a a process that gave every useless drip the chance to financially destroy his "small business" employer too. Terminating employee's has been a slippery slope for business for far too long.

Bad employee's deserve the rough end of the stick. I'm dead against the expansion of importing labour resources, we all know Aussie jobs need to stay here but at the same time, I believe business needs the flexibility and power to sack at will (note the boom in Sub-C & Temps pre new IR Laws). With our unemployment staying low at around 5%, I am confident in the Lib's approach and their commitment to keeping Aussies in jobs.

Whilst I no longer own businesses, I'll add that the IR laws only promise to help rather than hinder me.

Outbackjack · 18-06-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kempster1

Outback are you a union rep ??

No. I am from a working class family in Glenroy MLB. My father was a chippy (he passed away 2 years ago) and my mum worked in a factory making instruments for ford motor cars. I was brought up with the ethics of working hard for fair treatment and fair pay. I have always worked hard, but not always been treated fairly. Please let me apologise for using the crap word. I should have said "what bully woolies" and kept it light. But the kind of un founded statements like " a good worker that gets along with others will never be sacked " is a statement from la la land and should not be left un challenged.....

I tried to edit out the crap word and the context it was written, but by the time I got to work I couldn't do it......... sorry.

kempster1 · 18-06-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

No. I am from a working class family in Glenroy MLB. My father was a chippy (he passed away 2 years ago) and my mum worked in a factory making instruments for ford motor cars. I was brought up with the ethics of working hard for fair treatment and fair pay. I have always worked hard, but not always been treated fairly. Please let me apologise for using the crap word. I should have said "what bully woolies" and kept it light. But the kind of un founded statements like " a good worker that gets along with others will never be sacked " if a statement from la la land and should not be left un challenged.....

I tried to edit out the crap word and the context it was written, but by the time I got to work I couldn't do it......... sorry.

Outback I hope you did not think I was being disrepectful with my question about being a union rep.
With an issue like this you speak your mind very well and with passion.
As a 20 year member of two unions, you sound like a rep and if your not maybe you should be.

Outbackjack · 18-06-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kempster1

Outback I hope you did not think I was being disrepectful with my question about being a union rep.
With an issue like this you speak your mind very well and with passion.
As a 20 year member of two unions, you sound like a rep and if your not maybe you should be.

No problems, it gave me a chance to back away from something that I should not have typed. We need threads like this so people dont forget what is at stake here. I am trying really hard to be good this time.

Employees need employers, employers need employees.... I think John Howard has forgoten this.

MO · 18-06-2006, 09:28 PM

If I'm reading this correctly....Outbackjack..I think I know who you work for and if I'm right...be carefull in what you say they have eyes and ears everywhere. capiche!

MO · 18-06-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malakai

I only read upto the $3 vs $14 bit... My question is: How can anyone do the same job for $3 when there are things like minimum wage and stuff? Or do they get around this by being contractors or something.

Somebody explain how immigrant workers can be able to take $3 an hour.

I believe this is the case...contract....but their board and keep is part of the deal....however I've been out of the loop for a few years now...so could be wrong.

MO · 18-06-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Thats not always the Case. I've been fired twice from companies after doing excellent work, both due to the company being mismanaged. Both companies eventually went bankrupt.

And a lot more will follow!

WASP · 18-06-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

There was also a a process that gave every useless drip the chance to financially destroy his "small business" employer too. Terminating employee's has been a slippery slope for business for far too long.

Bad employee's deserve the rough end of the stick. I'm dead against the expansion of importing labour resources, we all know Aussie jobs need to stay here but at the same time, I believe business needs the flexibility and power to sack at will (note the boom in Sub-C & Temps pre new IR Laws). With our unemployment staying low at around 5%, I am confident in the Lib's approach and their commitment to keeping Aussies in jobs.

Whilst I no longer own businesses, I'll add that the IR laws only promise to help rather than hinder me.

I tend to agree with most of this. One bad employee in the past could take down a small buinsess quickly with lost productivity & expenses etc, putting at risk other employee jobs in the process. Doesn't sound fair to me.

Deadman · 18-06-2006, 09:54 PM

It's one of those situations. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

:

However, as an employee, not an employer, I'm not a fan of the laws at all. I won't profess to be an expert, but I've seen enough to know that I myself, for my situation, do not like them. But my employer is an Aussie company who values their staff as their best asset - this is how every work place should be. If this was the case, in a perfect world, the IR laws wouldn't change anything at all really except make it easier to get rid of dud staff.

However - money hungry companies, bad / dodgy management, and just plain pricks out there have shown just what damage these IR laws can do to hard working decent Australians. I don't blame employers for liking the new reforms, but I ask that they don't blame employee's for not liking them. Not all of us are lucky enough to be in secure stable work environments. I feel sorry for those hard workers who go un-noticed in massive companies and will probably feel at risk due to these new reforms.