uni is it worth it?

Duffman · 06-03-2005, 11:17 PM

Im on my third year of uni bachelor in bussiness management/marketing. Im wondering from anyone else on here that has done a simliar course if you found it easy to get a job.

Do you guys think from experience that its worth upgrading to a masters (extra 1.5 years)? Bachelors seem to be preety common now days (i think) and everytime you try and get advice from the uni's they don't give you decent answers. To anyone on here who is an employee/employer or uni graduate whats your point of view on it? Worth the upgrade or am i destined to have trouble finding a job.

**Peuty** · 06-03-2005, 11:38 PM

I did the same course as you, and completed about 1 year of it. Quit and went into a Management job without any mention of a degree.

This doesnt help you in anyway, but it's nice to know.

JC · 07-03-2005, 12:12 AM

Finish your degree, then go find a job. Once you have the job, you may be able to do your masters at their expense - best of both worlds. Of course, if you can't find a job, then do the masters, but it may not help with a job anyway.

And remember, no matter what you think you learn at uni, the real world is vastly different, so be prepared to learn it all again on the job.!

Dark Horse · 07-03-2005, 12:24 AM

You might find yourself overqualified for a job if you step in to a job interview holding a Masters'.

Another option you might want to take up is try and grab a job now, finish your studies on a part time basis and as it is all work related get your remaining uni costs written off that way.

**Stav** · 07-03-2005, 12:37 AM

I am doing law.It is a painful course. I am running a good little business which is great fun. Do what you feel comfortable with. In the end its a job. If you think it will help then go for it. Iam on the borderline.It is great to know but really good to make money!!!

loxxr6 · 07-03-2005, 12:46 AM

Finish your degree, then go find a job. Once you have the job, you may be able to do your masters at their expense - best of both worlds. Of course, if you can't find a job, then do the masters, but it may not help with a job anyway.

This sounds like good advice to me. A lot of bigger companies are generally happy to fund your education if it helps your job.

bindi · 07-03-2005, 07:23 AM

Ok... my 2 cents' worth

There was a joke going round a while ago about how people get a uni degree and then end up working at Macca's. Now I'm wondering if there is more truth in that than meets the eye.

It seems that qualifications from Tafe are almost as good as Uni - and not quite as long yet more practical.

Also my hubby trained at Tafe as an IT God (tm) and is now a manager with IT thrown into the mix. The training he got from Tafe for two years was enough to get him in the door... he didn't even know he was good in the management field until he got promoted

I've met with a fair few of his staff from his old company - not only did they think the sun shone out of his **** but I became friends with them too.

It seems that employers may like your resume based on your Uni course, but if you don't have the experience to back it up, it becomes fairly useless - read the above Maccas statement.

Whereas I did a basic Office Skills course at Tafe for 6 months, started work as a secretary then became Office Manager - then I retrained to become Super Aromatherapist (tm).

Just some ideas for you... but I would consider staying at Uni cos the drugs are pretty good

FordFan86 · 07-03-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bindi

Ok... my 2 cents' worth

There was a joke going round a while ago about how people get a uni degree and then end up working at Macca's. Now I'm wondering if there is more truth in that than meets the eye.

It seems that qualifications from Tafe are almost as good as Uni - and not quite as long yet more practical.

Also my hubby trained at Tafe as an IT God (tm) and is now a manager with IT thrown into the mix. The training he got from Tafe for two years was enough to get him in the door... he didn't even know he was good in the management field until he got promoted

I've met with a fair few of his staff from his old company - not only did they think the sun shone out of his **** but I became friends with them too.

It seems that employers may like your resume based on your Uni course, but if you don't have the experience to back it up, it becomes fairly useless - read the above Maccas statement.

Whereas I did a basic Office Skills course at Tafe for 6 months, started work as a secretary then became Office Manager - then I retrained to become Super Aromatherapist (tm).

Just some ideas for you... but I would consider staying at Uni cos the drugs are pretty good

That's just a greta post to quote lol...very true aswell... thru uni you cna do a course for 4-5yrs, get all the theory u need... while at tafe you get all the practical you need, aswell as some life experience, you should be taken over anyone with a piece of paper for anyjob just because of those 2 things... if that makes any sense... its 830am and ive had 2 cups of tea... coffee next methinks

paul7v7 · 07-03-2005, 08:59 AM

is uni worth it? i am on my 2nd degree (Master of IT) and for the money I would have to say HELL NO. I am paying 24k for something I would learn more at a workplace, and what you learn is squeezed into 13 weeks which IMO is no way near enough. Only reason I am doing it so it looks good on my CV. So far it isn't working.
I also tried to get my employer to fund some of my course. They just a laughed at me. My employer is a multi billion dollar organisation too. Even when I tried to take study leave they thought i was joking.

Duffman · 07-03-2005, 10:01 AM

I signed up for a mentor course the uni offers for final year students. You get given someone in your field who is experience and so forth and talk to them once every fornight about studies/work. If your lucky you get work experience out of it so might be a good way to find some info they say its good for building up contacts. Im going to see if uni offers a internship hopefully they do.

Pilch · 07-03-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

Another option you might want to take up is try and grab a job now, finish your studies on a part time basis and as it is all work related get your remaining uni costs written off that way.

Can't be done, unless you find a stupid employer! And certainly not for tax purposes. I've just finished by 3 year business degree, accounting major. I've been in a internship all along and now working full time for the same organisation.

IMO start trying to get a job asap part-time if your worried about finding work, the mentor program would be well worth it! If you can't find a job (which should be highly unlikely) than do honours to keep yourself busy.

fordchick · 07-03-2005, 10:26 AM

To do what i want to do, its best i do my course. I am doing a bach. of communications majoring in journalism and digital video. I want to be a TV presenter, and i did a TV presenting course, but to be taken seriously and to go really far, you have to have a background in journalism. I could do a smaller course at TAFE but in the end it doesnt offer the knowledge i am after. My course is awesome! I love it. I am learning spainish in it also

hola!

Dark Horse · 07-03-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

Can't be done, unless you find a stupid employer! And certainly not for tax purposes. I've just finished by 3 year business degree, accounting major. I've been in a internship all along and now working full time for the same organisation.

Can't be done? Getting some work experience up whilst finishing up studies? Hrmm dunno about that one. Brother of mine was offered a position in the airline industry before he had finished his degree, and he turned it down in preference to completing it. Now he has trouble getting a job after he finished uni.

I'm currently working full-time and studying part-time - with the costs being tax deductible as it is career path related.

Pilch · 07-03-2005, 10:39 AM

Darkhorse, maybe I misunderstood, but what I'm saying can't be done is have your uni costs written off by your employer if you land a job before completing the course! Now that I reread your post, it has 2 possible means of interpretation. Did you mean get a job and use the income to pay for uni fees?

As for tax deduction, it depends on the job you have and the study your taking. If you have a job which you got due to the course your currently completing - not deductible. To be deductible it must be furthering your qual's beyond what was necessery to obtain the job, and improving the service you will give to the employer in the position you were hired in.

Dark Horse · 07-03-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

To be deductible it must be furthering your qual's beyond what was necessery to obtain the job, and improving the service you will give to the employer in the position you were hired in.

Well that's pretty much what I'm doing at the moment then. I would've thought the remaining studies could be claimed as the course to be completed would be furthering qualifications beyond what was necessary for the job, otherwise you wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Pilch · 07-03-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

That's what I'm saying (and doing at the moment). Of course the whole lot of the course can't be deductible, but certainly from the point at which employment commenced - the remaining studies can be claimed, from what I understand it anyway. That being from that point on you are furthering your qualifications beyond what was necessary to obtain the position otherwise you would not have been hired in the first place.

Well from what I was taught at uni (which is definetly not always correct in the real world) you can not deduct the uni fees incurred since the employment commenced. Reasoning being you were employed on the basis of your knowledge obtained from the course you are completing. If you went on to do masters though, that would be deductible. Check out the tax legislation for more accurate wording.

I have been employed in the same situation for 3 years and my lecturers/tutors in tax law informed me I definitly could not deduct my fees in my tax return.

Dark Horse · 07-03-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

Well from what I was taught at uni (which is definetly not always correct in the real world) you can not deduct the uni fees incurred since the employment commenced. Reasoning being you were employed on the basis of your knowledge obtained from the course you are completing. If you went on to do masters though, that would be deductible. Check out the tax legislation for more accurate wording.

I have been employed in the same situation for 3 years and my lecturers/tutors in tax law informed me I definitly could not deduct my fees in my tax return.

Fair enough then. I am doing my Masters at the moment so I'd be in from a different situation.

RSgerry · 07-03-2005, 02:55 PM

working full time and studying part time is extremely hard work. if you are aboe to do it, then have a go, but just remember that 100% of your time is devoted to working and studying, with 0% left for yourself. i am speaking from experience.

if you are able to get a job after graduating, then that might not be a bad idea. it is worth thinking about getting into a company in an unrelated field and then trying to transfer into the marketing dept. you could also consider some unpaid work experience while you are finishing your degree.

at the end of teh day, you are still going to be looking at an entry level position, so the more work experience you can get, the better your cv will look and improve your chances of getting into an interview. BTW, i believe Maccas experience is highly regarded (it used to be). i have only ever recruited a couple of people, but i liked the fact that they had taken on difficult jobs, like maccas, and had stuck with it.

good luck.

07-03-2005, 03:10 PM

I agree RSgerry. I did just that for 5 years while working in fields atleast indirectly involved in what the degree was majored in. It's hard work but in the end there is alot of satisfaction out of it.

A masters is probably not entirely worth it straight after the degree. A few years work experience (without uni) is worthwhile before a masters degree.

Duffman · 07-03-2005, 05:43 PM

I have little hecs debt as i paid first year and for the prevous summer semister. I did a diploma first (international business) and went on to uni rather then tafe as it seemed like it would give better education. My main aim was to become high up in management (maybe even ford ceo one day ;) ) rather then become just a small time manager. Hopefully it works out, i live close to brisbane so hopefully that helps.

Holden where offering a 1yr work experience to business students i forgot all about it and was going to do it this year

:

DRU842 · 08-03-2005, 05:41 PM

Try the Australian Marketing Institute www.ami.org.au

I did mu B.Bus with a Marketing Major Part-Time. 15 years later its still carrying some weight on the job market, most ads are looking for a Degree Qualification. What weight it holds after the interview is anyones guess.

Filthy GT-P · 08-03-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

Darkhorse, maybe I misunderstood, but what I'm saying can't be done is have your uni costs written off by your employer if you land a job before completing the course! Now that I reread your post, it has 2 possible means of interpretation. Did you mean get a job and use the income to pay for uni fees?

As for tax deduction, it depends on the job you have and the study your taking. If you have a job which you got due to the course your currently completing - not deductible. To be deductible it must be furthering your qual's beyond what was necessery to obtain the job, and improving the service you will give to the employer in the position you were hired in.

If you want the technical answer then there generally needs to be a significant correlation between the expenditure and the income derivation. The degree needs to either enhance your current skills or give you additional skills to further your current role.

My whole degree (bachelor of business with a major in accountancy) was completed part time while working as an accountant, therefore most of the expenditure was tax deductible. There are however, some expenses that are not deductible under any circumstances eg.HECS.

However if I did my degree full time and had a part time job in a field other than accountancy, I would not have been able to claim tax deductions for my degree.

And for me the degree was definitely worth it.

Steven

5LMonty · 08-03-2005, 09:02 PM

My best mate has completed his Bach of Business & Marketing and was job hunting for over 1year with no luck! He always used to give me a hard time for not goin to uni, and now I work for an established Airline and he's ummmmmmmm UNEMPLOYED! I've found experience (both work related and in life) count for alot more than a bit of paper. No offence to those at uni............

**Peuty** · 08-03-2005, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5LMonty

My best mate has completed his Bach of Business & Marketing and was job hunting for over 1year with no luck! He always used to give me a hard time for not goin to uni, and now I work in a managerial role for an established Airline and he's ummmmmmmm UNEMPLOYED! I've found experience (both work related and in life) count for alot more than a bit of paper. No offence to those at uni............

Totally agree mate, totally agree.

Dave_au · 08-03-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkau

Im on my third year of uni bachelor in bussiness management/marketing. Im wondering from anyone else on here that has done a simliar course if you found it easy to get a job.

Do you guys think from experience that its worth upgrading to a masters (extra 1.5 years)?

Just to get back on topic, its probably not worth upgrading to a masters because in the workplace at a junior level its probably worth only another $5,000 a year in annual salary - and then when you factor in the hecs/pels debt, and the opportunity cost for not working that one and a half years its not worth it.

Afterall, a degree is nice and all, but it doesn't really equip you with enough adequate knowledge for the real world, nothing is better than work experience itself.

On the topic of business and post grads however either fall into two categories. Most masters etc probably do look good later on in your career but its not worth it really at this stage. Some other postgrads, like the CPA and CA courses for graduate accountants are required for advancement.

I'd be looking for direction (and financial support) from your employer on what they want you to do - if its a requirement in the industry its a bit of a no brainer, however if its not - which basically includes most masters - then you will have to put a business case forward.

As for me, I did a cadetship with one of the big four accounting firms - now they are paying for my postgrad.

Duffman · 09-03-2005, 07:37 PM

Iv only got 3 subjects for my last semister so decided to go for another one called amb310 which is a internship in a company in marketing as there is no management internship. I had credits from a diploma but decided its best to write one off for experience even though its going to cost me. During the last semister ill see how i can go about working part-time and doing a mba. Or ill get a job then go back for the masters. I think if i have a few months working in marketing then leaving with a degree in managment/marketing it will be much easier to get a job.

The worst thing would be to leave and get no job though i surpose it can depend on the individual sometimes. Iv heard alot of people leave uni thinking they should walk into a top paying executive job rather then start at the bottom.

XRchic · 10-03-2005, 11:33 AM

Ive got 3 undergraduate degrees and Im doing a Masters now. Whether or not to do post grad degrees is highly dependent on the industry it's related to. For example, a Masters in Nursing would be entirely irrelevant for that industry unless I wanted to become a lecturer - which I didnt. On the other hand a Masters in Psychology is an absolute requirement to be a practicing psychologist and it was something I wasnt prepared to do after Honours. Then there is my Masters in Law, which I am thinking about chucking in. With law, it also depends on what area you want to go into... in private practice there is no real need for Masters but if you do it, the firm would pay for it. If you want to go outside of the traditional legal practice, and do what I do and work for a government agency or something (as I do) then Masters in Law is highly sought after.

In some agencies, Masters is pretty much required for promotion into the higher levels, particularly if you have a technical role and are looking for a technical promotion. It is why I did it, but being halfway through it and bored out of my mind (majoring in tax might have something to do with it) I am thinking of dropping out.

And whoever said it is hard to combine work and study, they are correct. When I did my law degree, I was studying that full time with an overload as a single parent and I was working full time as well (say 40 hours a week). It was not fun. And now I am working full time while studying Masters full time... I have had enough and I need a life. And I dont really think it will get me anywhere any faster.

So my advice is, do some research into the industry you want to be in, what qualifications are considered to be baseline requirements and what are required to really get anywhere in the industry? And it very much depends on whether your employer will pay for it or not.

Sometimes doing more study is worthwhile, sometimes its not. Often the good old undergraduate degree is worth more than anything else, and anything after that is dependent on many things.

One thing is for sure. I am glad I did my uni courses because I know if I didnt, I wouldnt be earning what I am now. And I wouldnt have had the technical background to be able to do this kind of job or anything like it.

Good luck!

chelvdog · 10-03-2005, 11:42 AM

I did nursing at uni, and a masters is a waste of time for me coz I'm happy to stay at the level I'm at for the next few years.
My bro on the other hand did accounting and completed his honours and masters while working for a government department. He was earning $50k..ish as an accountant, but with his masters managed to nab a position as financial director of a multi-national company, and now rakes in about $250k per year.
I think if you are in the right industry, a masters is definately beneficial.
Oh, how many mods I could do if I earned that much!!!