Building new home

JPFS1 · 03-05-2006, 12:12 AM

Hi all

Some of you may remember i started a thread quite a long time ago asking about finding a home in the Templestowe area. Well, i'd say a year has passed and we were still unsuccessful in finding a house we could see ourselves living in. Has anybody else struggled so much in finding a house you actually like etc?? or is it just me?

Anyway, after missing 3 houses that we were really keen on, we decided to look for land.... so a couple of days ago, the deal is done. 770sqm, corner block in a pretty new area of Templstowe. Very happy with location and size (price isn't too nice though).
So my question now is, can anybody recommend a good builder/developer that can basically take care of everything, ie, dealing with planning permits, council etc etc..???

We were thinking of putting a Metricon style home on it, but i am now leaning toward a higher quality home, not so mass produced.

So far, i've been advised to look into Glenvill and Englehart homes.

Any opinions?

Much appreciated.
Chris.

Ghiadude · 03-05-2006, 01:47 AM

just had a quick flick through the two that you mentioned and me likey very much.... alas i have no advice to give other than to say it looks like youll have a nice place when its built if those two sites are anything to go by. your a lucky man.

JAJH · 03-05-2006, 09:55 AM

Porter Davis are a better quality builder.

pb02 · 03-05-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAJH

Porter Davis are a better quality builder.

I'll second that!

rodderz · 03-05-2006, 10:13 AM

Just be wary that some of the high capacity builders can sometimes be a bit unhelpful when it comes to some changes to the plan, you can swap and change the outlay etc but sometimes changing mouldings, architraves etc seem more of a hassle. The good thing is that as they are a high capacity builder, they have worked out material estimates to close to actual usage and have also worked out reduced pricing arrangements with suppliers so that the house can be built for cheaper. For example, the builder may order a full truckload of materials that may be able to supply several of their houses in one delivery, saving on delivery costs.

Pays to go through the whole thing from go to whoa before construction. Sounds like you've picked a good area to Jem, not a chance it'll go down in price thats for sure

MO · 03-05-2006, 09:22 PM

Be cautious sport....read the fine print before signing...some changes no matter how small can cost you a thousand k.

Good luck.

Paxton · 03-05-2006, 09:48 PM

Don't do a Clarendon. I bought my house as a half finished Project home, and have regretted it ever since. I have seen housing commission houses built to a better standard, things have broken, including the kitchen cabinets (that I got to pick), tiles falling off the bathroom wall (that I didn't), and even a leaking roof, where the sarking wasn't fitted properly. If it wasn't for the location of the house, I never would have bought it.

Make sure that you go with a reputable builder. Masterdon, A.V Jennings, or even a known architect. Go with a good quality bathroom and kitchen builder, and get a quote from the bathroom guys to do the laundry. If you are doing it, do it once, and do it right. Get top quality bricks (sand stock, or, a good common if you are bagging or rendering), get good quality kitchen appliances. Mielé, Smeg, Kleenmaid, and make sure that you get what you want, and not what the foreman decides you want. If there is a problem, stand your ground. I complained until I was blue in the face about a gap in the floor of the Walk-in-robe (where the floor meets the roof), and I only got it fixed when I refuse to allow the payment of any more money. MAKE SURE YOU GET A FIXED PRICE CONTRACT, NOT COST PLUS. I have heard of a project home company doing cost plus contracts, and under charging $25,000 on the frame (!)

When looking at project homes, get lists of where people who have built similar homes to you are, and use that as a guide for colour schemes, and even landscaping. Get lists off the brick makers, and do the same. It is amazing how much other people's ideas influence your own. I looked around recent home estates when I did my garden. It has been altered, however it is basically Camellias, Gardenias and Murrayas.

I like the house, however I would not put myself under the stress of building one again. Its not worth it! Enjoy the process, its a learning process that I will never forget.

**Falcon Coupe** · 03-05-2006, 09:55 PM

http://www.hotondo.com.au/

Dean C · 03-05-2006, 10:04 PM

I was an owne rbiulder on my last home 2 yrs ago, but we have to sell as its a double storey home and my wife has had knee surgey a yr ago and cant cope with the stairs, so we are looking at building we have tried contacting Glenvill over the phone and by email with no luck. Unfortunately there customer service is really poor.
There are a few good builders in the Melborne area like Inform, Marklews, C & J Designer Homes & Sherbrooke Constructions to name a few.
You might also be interested in grabbing a copy of the new Herald Sun Display Homes magazine its got a huge range of displays in there.
Another option is going owner builder but hiring a project manager, you get to use there experiance and contacts without the headaches.

charles_wif_xf · 03-05-2006, 11:02 PM

Just go for a smaller builder who builds 5 maybe 6 houses a year. Such a builder can't afford to make stuffups and cut corners a la Henley and all the other big builders. I don't know any off hand, since I have never built a house.

I have dealt with all manner of tradesmen involved in housing construction and they all agree that the smaller builder is the way to go if the owner builder option isn't available.

JPFS1 · 04-05-2006, 11:13 AM

Thanks for all the advise guys.

Meeting with Englehart on the weekend. They are a little pricey, but they seem to be pretty good and don't do it on the cheap, all materials are of high qaulity as standard.

Hopefully i can get into their price brackets.

GTP 320 · 04-05-2006, 08:27 PM

I'm currently building with Porter Davis Homes and find them to be excellent builders,you can judge for yourself just by going through their Display homes and see the quality of their work.
Cheers John

JPFS1 · 15-09-2006, 04:15 PM

Hi all

I thought i'd give an update as to the progress of my project.

Well, i have organised and recieved soil test results and feature survey's, have contracted an architect and have pretty much finalised the plans. He'll be coming up with the concept sketches of the design in the next week or so which will be exciting.

Am very happy with his service, quality of work and changes to plans etc are no hassles. That's why you pay big dollars though i guess to these guys.

I plan to have atleast got upto footings and slab towards Christmas and will let it sit over the Christmas break.

To build the house, i will most likely go with these builders, http://www.panachedevelopments.com.au/
have seen their work up close and it looks really nice and have spoken to the MD and really like the way they go about their business.

I will be looking for landscape gardeners at some stage too, so i'll ask here first. ;)

Danny · 15-09-2006, 05:39 PM

Templestowe is where I'm from. Ive been here since I was 7. Love the place, and congrats on finding a block there. Templestowe blocks are highly sought after and so command higher prices.
Good Stuff.

crusher · 15-09-2006, 09:23 PM

Congrats on the new place. Building a home can be full of trouble. Never built one and not quite sure what went on when mum and dad built our old place but it seemed to go alright.

Just make sure you check out the tradies you use. Some guys seem ok but are the dodgiest buggers youll find. IE my first boss. I didnt know better being a first year apprentice and him being my first boss. But when i left him and moved to a new company I found out how dodgey he was. Other companies I was with had been called out before to fix stuff he had done. And he did NO TESTING. Very very very bad. His idea of testing was plugging a drill in and if it worked it worked. Pretty bad and illegal.

So make sure you find the best guys you can. Even if it costs you a little bit more. It'll be well worth it in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

770sqm, corner block in a pretty new area of Templstowe. Very happy with location and size (price isn't too nice though).

770sqm...how big is that? doesnt sound very big. Anyone know size in acres? eg quarter of and so on?

Im on 6 acres so its probably huge for a suburban house but would still be too small lol.

Make sure you take lots of build pics. Will be quite interesting to see how it goes.

StorminaTcup · 16-09-2006, 01:43 AM

Make sure you keep in good with the tradies, they do a better job when your nice to them. Oh, and make sure you insulate all walls in the house, as this does save money for heating and cooling, and is good for soundproofing as well. Our tradies recommended this to us and it was the best move we made. Use thicker batts in walls where heat of the day sun hits that side of the house.

Danny · 16-09-2006, 02:47 AM

Passive solar design is a good way to go too. Use a lot of thermal mass like bricks and stuff inside. They retain the days heat and dissipate it slowly through the house at night, and go with double glazing on the windows. They may be initially expensive, but the savings on heating and cooling are phenominal.

chich · 16-09-2006, 12:41 PM

Congrats on the purchase mate. I've been looking for a property around those parts (Bulleen, Doncaster, Doncaster East, Templestowe) for a couple of months now and like yourself i'm finding it quite difficult to find something suited to my needs. Something will eventually stick..

All the best with your chosen builder - just ensure that the lines of communication are always open and honest. Its very easy talking about something, but very hard to go back and fix it once the damage is done. Enjoy the rollercoaster!

chich · 16-09-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 320

I'm currently building with Porter Davis Homes and find them to be excellent builders,you can judge for yourself just by going through their Display homes and see the quality of their work.
Cheers John

I love going through the display villiages - some of the designs (especially Porter Davis designs) are outstanding. Hard to believe that they are part of the Henly Group.

The only problem with display homes is that the companies always build the 'fully optioned' version which I believe can be misleading at times. Unless you ask for the specific doors/door handles/taps/window moulds etc you end up with the basic versions.

SWOOP · 16-09-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEM

d.

So far, i've been advised to look into Glenvill and Englehart homes.

Any opinions?

Much appreciated.
Chris.

my current and previous employers have supplied Framing/Trusses to Englehart homes for years. Quality comes first and always a pleasure to do work for these guys. youll will get what you pay with these guys
Most the work Ive been involved with have been intricate designs, larger scale 2nd owner type houses ,sometimes a pain for my part but they certainly dont build a mainstream type of home you get these days from the H&L package mobs

be careful as the slump in the market over the last few months will bring qouting down and out comes the cowboys looking for anything they can get

XRchic · 16-09-2006, 02:56 PM

We pretty much did the opposite. We had bought a block of land and got sick of the dramas with builders and the amount of time we had to wait for it to be built, so we sold the block of land (and made some money on it) and bought a new place instead, and moved into it a month or so later. It was so much easier than building and the place we bought was the first place we looked at.

Here are some pics of the place we bought:

Good luck with the building process mate, I hope they dont keep you waiting too long (perhaps demand is down a bit now) and that it all goes smoothly for you - and that before long you will be in your new place!

Keep us updated with some pics!

Jac

rodderz · 16-09-2006, 04:49 PM

Congrats Jem, Templestowe is a very nice area. As others have said, keep an eye on the place without being intrusive and have a good r'ship with the tradies

I've sent a PM re: the landscaping too!

schmidty · 16-09-2006, 08:20 PM

I guess there are people who have good and bad experiences with any builder, but my sparky does porter davis work in geelong and surrounding and says they are pretty woeful sometimes. Depends on which tradies work on which houses.

The big volume builders are good if you want a cheap house, that you're going to turn over within say 4 - 5 years. If you're planning on staying in the house for a long while, build with a smaller builder who's still involved with the construction process. If its his name on the sign he'll take more pride in the work and should offer better and more flexible customer service, as most of the time your next job comes on a recommendation from the last job.

Build quality suffers on the major volume houses, i dont care what anyone says. I know other chippies who do work for simmonds, metricon, national builders, dennis family, and all say they can't afford to take much care in their work or deal with any minor issues because they simply cant afford to spend an hour more there than they have to. They pay their trades pittence. The rate i get paid for framing is about 45% higher than what they are getting.

Also with volume builders, done expect display home quality in every house. They spend a lot of time fixing all of the mistakes that would usually be left before they open them. And i've found a lot more when looking through that most people wouldnt pick.

The best advice i can give, don't judge a builder by a display home. You can't see what they went through to get it to that stage, or know what they are like to deal with. Much better to go off a recommendation from someone who has similar standards and expectations as yourself.

**Falcon Coupe** · 16-09-2006, 08:28 PM

Well said Schmidty, unfortunately that is true, many trades i know refuse to work for the volume builders ( including me) i would rather go on the rock & roll than do a professional job for slave wages.
The bloke that just painted my house said he couldn't even buy his paint for what Henley pay.

rodderz · 16-09-2006, 10:27 PM

I have been warned against working for large builders too, they want a quick get in/get out job and pay for exactly that...i'de rather spend the time on something that is higher quality that I will put my name to and that the customer is happy with, win/win for both

Another thing to watch out for is the extra's... house plans only give you for example the bare minimum power point outlets, standard light fittings etc, but if you want extra be prepared to pay double what a normal sparky would charge. Then, keep an eye on the punctuality of the defect list after completion (fault list you give to the builder), I've heard some stories of people waiting months for things to be fixed as either the builder is too busy or they wait till you give up. Their excuse may be that they have tens or hundreds of houses on the go, but really it's their responsibility. Obviously doesnt apply to all however

chich · 17-09-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

I guess there are people who have good and bad experiences with any builder, but my sparky does porter davis work in geelong and surrounding and says they are pretty woeful sometimes. Depends on which tradies work on which houses.

The big volume builders are good if you want a cheap house, that you're going to turn over within say 4 - 5 years. If you're planning on staying in the house for a long while, build with a smaller builder who's still involved with the construction process. If its his name on the sign he'll take more pride in the work and should offer better and more flexible customer service, as most of the time your next job comes on a recommendation from the last job.

Build quality suffers on the major volume houses, i dont care what anyone says. I know other chippies who do work for simmonds, metricon, national builders, dennis family, and all say they can't afford to take much care in their work or deal with any minor issues because they simply cant afford to spend an hour more there than they have to. They pay their trades pittence. The rate i get paid for framing is about 45% higher than what they are getting.

Also with volume builders, done expect display home quality in every house. They spend a lot of time fixing all of the mistakes that would usually be left before they open them. And i've found a lot more when looking through that most people wouldnt pick.

The best advice i can give, don't judge a builder by a display home. You can't see what they went through to get it to that stage, or know what they are like to deal with. Much better to go off a recommendation from someone who has similar standards and expectations as yourself.

Spot on. Like i said above most designs are very very good but personally i wouldn't use any volume builder to build my home. We've always used small independant builders and we've only ever had one issue (they stuffed the kitchen up) which was rectified quickly. The other problem is access to the site.. one of my mates built with Henly and wasn't allowed to inspect his own house while it was being built due to OHS! What BS

MO · 17-09-2006, 08:25 PM

chich...thems the rules...until such time as you are handed the keys to the house it belongs to the builder and he does have strict rules to follow.

OH&S is there for a reason....

schmidty · 17-09-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Well said Schmidty, unfortunately that is true, many trades i know refuse to work for the volume builders ( including me) i would rather go on the rock & roll than do a professional job for slave wages.
The bloke that just painted my house said he couldn't even buy his paint for what Henley pay.

Simmonds can't get chippies to do their lock ups at the moment because they are so bad with their rates. There are a few frames in torquay starting to go grey becuase no one can touch it for what they are paying.
Then because they haven't allowed enough in the price, and their margins are so tight they pretty much are prepared to wait for some sucker to do it for what they have allowed. Thats the problem when volume builders try and do architectural houses. You cant build in the same timeframe, on the same rates as simple urban construction.

Cheap is cheap for a reaon. Be very careful whats in your contract. As other have said, extras are where the volume builders price goes through the roof! I was in a display the other day for Metricon, base house was 350k, i asked what it had in extras, was told it had 150k in extras, and about 50k in landscaping. Looks nothing like the pic as its so loaded with extras, and had about 2 extra rooms.

Bringing the house to 550k for something thats 350k on the poster!

Sparky mate said the builders he does work for are mostly allowing only 1 GPO per room, and 1 standard batten holder light fitting. Down lights are an extra $120 each on top of that, so a standard bedroom needs 4 downlights, so $480 per room. My house has 68 downlights in it, so if i was paying standard rates for it i'd be up for an extra $8200 just for lights alone, which are usually the only things in a display! It all adds up.

No harm in getting prices and making enquiries. Just make sure you go though your contract THOROUGHLY about 5 times! And if you aren't totally understanding of all aspects of it, and how things work, show it to someone who does! I've picked up a lot of issues in other people contracts that could have been potentially very costly supprises.

Keep us posted as to how it turns out.

rodderz · 17-09-2006, 09:36 PM

Well pointed out Schmidty, it's certainly a case of buyer beware and the fantastic deals that are advertised certainly arent what they seem. I was doing a quote yesterday and the client showed me a huge folder of the contract documents for the building of the house, a lot of people wouldnt spend the time to look through it and dont realise what they are and aren't getting.

I've done a lot of quotes in the past where your average family builds a larger than average house, then cant afford to do and landscaping (or anything else) till 3 or 4 years later as they have had to fork out these extra's that they need in a house of that size that they initially didnt realise they needed

chich · 17-09-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

chich...thems the rules...until such time as you are handed the keys to the house it belongs to the builder and he does have strict rules to follow.

OH&S is there for a reason....

They are the rules but as far as i'm concerned they're complete BS. At the end of the day I'm the one paying $250+K to build my home on my own land - I have every right to barge in and inspect whatever i want, when ever i want within reason. The large companies simply use the law as a justification to keep you out off the site as long as possible so you don't realise that the studs are 1m apart before the house is closed up.