Sick of hearing about it!!!

[Ghiadude]

see here
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17750497%255E2702,00.html

so now what do we do? the cameras have failed to deliver once again!!
innocent lives have needlesly(sp?) been lost again and its high time somebody did something about it.

Im off to have a lay down!!

[Bossxr8]

Speed cameras save lives, the numbers prove it don't they. Oh wait a minute, the road toll is higher now than it has been for the last few years, despite all the so called safety cameras that have gone up across the country. All it proves is that they only collect revenue. How can coping a fine in the mail weeks later save lives. Driver training is the only solution you idiot politicians.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Speed cameras save lives, the numbers prove it don't they. Oh wait a minute, the road toll is higher now than it has been for the last few years, despite all the so called safety cameras that have gone up across the country. All it proves is that they only collect revenue. How can coping a fine in the mail weeks later save lives. Driver training is the only solution you idiot politicians.

I will back you up on that stance Boss , 100% ! The polies realy do need to look at the hard line instead of the easy financialy rewarding steps they make , just so it looks like they are serious.

While I realise the that the cost of proper driver training and education will be passed onto the public, What price do we put on the lives of the loved ones lost each year because of avoidable crashes ! Not accidents , as "REAL" accidents are "UNAVOIDABLE" ! Incedents due to carelessness, stupidity and incompetance are crashes ! I aslo beleive that some of these should not be delt with by charges of mansluaghter , but MURDER !

[GasoLane]

Three things stand out in that page.
1# Nobody died on the road in the ACT (because they all left town to see the real world?.)
2# The only state with no speed limits (NT) was also death free, gotta be a moral there somewhere.
3# An ad for wine on the same page as the road toll stats!

Speed does'nt kill people. Lack of driver education does.

[Psycho Chicken]

The only reason the road toll is going down over time is because safety is better. I bet if you look at the number of accidents it's skyrocketing.

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

The only reason the road toll is going down over time is because safety is better. I bet if you look at the number of accidents it's skyrocketing.

Agreed

[Redrum]

I agree also. The congestion on roads, the state of the roads and peoples attitudes in relation to drink driving and merely driving whilst half asleep are the real factors.

[Gubas]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

see here
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17750497%255E2702,00.html

so now what do we do? the cameras have failed to deliver once again!!
innocent lives have needlesly(sp?) been lost again and its high time somebody did something about it.

Im off to have a lay down!!

Sure the road toll is high, and we can claim speed camera's arn't working, but I wonder what the toll will be without camera's. Fair enough people can speculate, but there is only one way to find out.

[Des]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Three things stand out in that page.
1# Nobody died on the road in the ACT (because they all left town to see the real world?.)
2# The only state with no speed limits (NT) was also death free, gotta be a moral there somewhere.
3# An ad for wine on the same page as the road toll stats!

Speed does'nt kill people. Lack of driver education does.

Here, Here!! Words of wisdom....

[The Monty]

Speed camers dont save lives. They slow you down for about 200 metres and thats it. The only thing that would completely slow me down is if there was about 20 times more cop cars on the road. Just my 2 cents.

[HOON69]

camera's dont save lives

police presence needs to be higher

road safety and maybe driver education and higher standards in our licencing system might be needed for new drivers

but all in all im also sick of them pumping the death toll down our throats
not all the accidents are young ppl nor are they drink or drug related yet thats all they seem to want to say and think so they can feel better with themselves and make excuses to bring out new laws to pump more money into their pockets and not into bettering our roads etc.

honestly i dont think much has changed this xmas from last except one thing,alot more ppl were travelling and when that happens so does accidents.

[The Monty]

And maybe worse roads due to them not being fixed and worse weather.

[Josh_XC]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Three things stand out in that page.
1# Nobody died on the road in the ACT (because they all left town to see the real world?.)
2# The only state with no speed limits (NT) was also death free, gotta be a moral there somewhere.
3# An ad for wine on the same page as the road toll stats!

Speed does'nt kill people. Lack of driver education does.

GasOLane, i coulnt have put that better myself.

Diver education is the main reason for deaths on our roads, im a green p plater and i know many of my friends that shouldnt even be near a car, let alone drive them. Advanced driver trainning is a must, i took one in canberra and i loved it, i just wish more people take advanced driving classes.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Josh_XC

Advanced driver trainning is a must, i took one in canberra and i loved it, i just wish more people take advanced driving classes.

Agreed. These should be one of the things the government either funds, or makes mandantory for ALL new drivers.

But wait a second - that would cost the government money instead of making them money ... :

[Falchoon]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

The only reason the road toll is going down over time is because safety is better. I bet if you look at the number of accidents it's skyrocketing.

Probably because there are more drivers on the road (population increase).

There does need to be better driver education. IMO that is the biggest reason for so many crashes. Go to your local shopping centre/shopping mall one day and observe for 15 mins the incompetent drivers that are around. Woman in small 4cyl cars that can't get into a space that a Mack truck would fit in, scraping other cars/poles. Not that car parks have much to do with road toll but if people can't control their vehicles properly at 20km/h what hope have they got at 120km/h?

[Des]

Originally Posted by Deadman

Agreed. These should be one of the things the government either funds, or makes mandantory for ALL new drivers.

But wait a second - that would cost the government money instead of making them money ... :

In the end it would actually save the government (read community as a whole) money, as the higher trained drivers would be involved in a lower number of severe accidents.
Remember the cost of severe road trauma is measured in the high 100's of million if not (and more than likely) billions.
My numbers are probably a fair way off, (not sure where to get actual figures) but consider this.
Let's say there's 15 million drivers in Oz. The government pays $100 of each driver's course. Initial cost would be $1.5 billion, but the ongoing cost would be considerably less, say 2.5 million new drivers = $250 million ongoing costs. Now without the actual road trauma dollar costs (to the community), I think it's safe to assume that the total price the community will have to pay over a 10 year period would be less with compulsary and government supported advanced driver training.

[flappist]

The problems from a political view are simple:

1) Cameras earn a lot of money which has already been spent in future budgets.
2) A number of highly paid academics and advisers have promoted the idea of cameras and "road trains" and for them to admit it was not the best idea would weaken their personal position and therefore WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
3) Most politicians will do or say whatever they think will keep them in power.

While the current governments and their advisers are in power we are buggered. This has nothing to do with party politics, even internal revolutions change more than the faces you see.
It will be sorted eventually (I hope)

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by Falchoon

Probably because there are more drivers on the road (population increase).

There does need to be better driver education. IMO that is the biggest reason for so many crashes. Go to your local shopping centre/shopping mall one day and observe for 15 mins the incompetent drivers that are around. Woman in small 4cyl cars that can't get into a space that a Mack truck would fit in, scraping other cars/poles. Not that car parks have much to do with road toll but if people can't control their vehicles properly at 20km/h what hope have they got at 120km/h?

Yes the extra congestion on the roads would be a factor, but I think you've nailed the main cause in the second half of your post, people can't drive!

Think about it for a second. 30 years ago we had giant metal boxes with heavy chrome bumpers, crumple zones were only just being introduced, inertia real seat belts were only just coming about, steering columns were solid, cars had 14x5 inch wheels wrapped with crappy bias ply tyres, side impact protection was unheard of.

Now days we've got air bags front and side, seat belt pretensioners, crumple zones that would write a car off in a 50 kph crash, doors that weigh twice as much due to side impact protection, ABS, traction control, power steering standard on everything, road tyres that have more grip than slicks of the 70's, etc, etc, etc.

Look at all that, factor in the number of accidents today and it's a wonder anyone drove a car in the 70's and lived to tell the tale.

[XAGSV8]

What they should start is when you are in year 12 there should be one class a week called drivers ed.

[old fordnut]

I think they should start driver ed a lot earlier than year 12. People are alreadfy getting licenses and L permits long before then. Getting back to the road toll in the NT, the only reason there are deaths up here is from drink driving and hippies who cant cope driving their bloody rusted bombs on the posted open speed limits.

[cogdoc]

And make people pass an advanced course every 5 years. I have to say at 35 and doing 50,000 plus k's a year I figured I drove OK, but at the FPV day I realised I wasn't as hot as I thought! We always focus on "P-plate" drivers, and with much validity, but what about all the older people, who now pilot high power / huge 4x4's and truely have lost the edge?!

[naughtyfalcon]

the only real way to lower the death tole on the roads is to stop makeing cars faster and limit them to a maximum 110 kph and if the driver tries to over speed then the engine is knocked down to idle speed till the speed of the vehicle is lowered.

i am in the emergancy services and have seen devistating accidents on perfectly good roads and on sunny clear days,why?,because one or both drivers were exceeding the posted speed limit.

just on news years eve up here we responded to an mva and the driver of one of the vehicles was still trapped in his ute.it was all related to speed.

i laugh at some people around these forums and some times wonder why they are looking for more and more power and speed from these vehicles which were not designed for drag racing and what ever else they do.

if you ignore the speed limit or alter a car in a way it was not intended for then you get what you deserve.i just hope that no one here ever kills another person because of alterations they have made to a car that weren't needed.

naughty

[Psycho Chicken]

So you shouldn't be allowed to make a mod that isn't "needed"?

I expect you to be changing back to an EA camshaft ASAP.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by naughtyfalcon

the only real way to lower the death tole on the roads is to stop makeing cars faster and limit them to a maximum 110 kph and if the driver tries to over speed then the engine is knocked down to idle speed till the speed of the vehicle is lowered.

rubish. 110 km/h is still a fatal speed. cars can loose control at 60 km/h and end up in a very dangerous situation.

the problem is drivers aren't trained well enough to drive in the particular circumstances and the quality control of cars on our roads is horrible.

so a untrained driver in a barely road-legal car with a smuged windscreen doing 100 km/h in the rain - is safter than a trained driver in a well maintained vehicle doing 115km/h in good conditions? of course the second driver would get 'limited' under your idea, the first one wouldn't. i know which car I'd rather be in.

speed limiting cars is another futile attempt like speed cameras. it doesn't address the problem.

Originally Posted by naughtyfalcon

just on news years eve up here we responded to an mva and the driver of one of the vehicles was still trapped in his ute.it was all related to speed.

can you please indicate how it was "all related to speed" ? accidents may happen at speeds above the 'speed limit' - it doesn't mean speed was the reason the accident happened.

not to mention, there are many areas where the speed limits are to high (the bribie island turn off in QLD is 80 km/h when it's a 360 degree turn - and the freeway is 100km/h) - but if there was an accident on that segment of road when the driver was doing 75km/h - it wouldn't be attributed to speed would it? because he was under the 'speed limit'. the truth is - taking that corner any faster than 65km/h is dangerous.

forget about speed limits and drive to the conditions.

the NT has areas with no speed limit - yet there were no fatalities.


the Autobahn in Germany is another good example of how drivers can drive to the conditions (and follow simple rules like 'keep left') and exceed speeds of 130km/h safely - and the Autobahn also has the lowest fatality rate of any roads in Germany!

[naughtyfalcon]

as if a cam shaft is going to make a car go so bloody fast,,thats all i have in it so tell me how much power am i getting to wheels,,ffs.

i don't need a bloody turbo,don't need a bloody dev5hl from who ever and i sure as hell don't need more power than the car already has.

so tell me why others need power over and beyong what the bloody things came out with..to get more power and speed,,and what does more power and speed do,,make some idiots drive faster which in turn makes them more dangerous to you and me.

so never try to justify makeing a cars power out put higher to a person that has dragged dead people and people still dying out of cars that are smashed around a tree or another car.

[Deadman]

naughtyfalcon - did you see my post on the topic? (ended up as the last post on the 1st page). just in case you missed it when replying to the other post.

[naughtyfalcon]

and driver training means squat when an idiot gets behind the wheel of a car with more power in the engine than the driver has brain power.

and how do i know it was speed,,well let me see,,the ute went under a 3 tonne pantec,,the bonnet smashed the driver of the ute in the face and lets see,,i saaw the official police report,,ИИИИ how could i ever know about those things,i've only been in the emergancy services for 17 years..how many accidents have you responded to???

and referred to 110 as it's the maximum posted speed limit in nsw and qld..

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by naughtyfalcon

and driver training means squat when an idiot gets behind the wheel of a car with more power in the engine than the driver has brain power.

and how do i know it was speed,,well let me see,,the ute went up under a 3 tonne pantec,,the bonnet smashed the driver of the ute in the face and lets see,,i saaw the official police report,,ИИИИ how could i ever know about those things,i've only been in the emergancy services for 17 years..how many accidents have you responded to???

slow down and start making sense.

firstly - driver training doesn't mean squat? you're talking about an untrained driver getting into a high-power vehicle. that is dangerous - but that driver will get into dangerous sitautions no matter how much power his car has. a trained driver wouldn't - because the driver would have a much better understanding of the cars limitations and ability on the road. untrained drivers often are the ones who think they are 'invincible'.

ok, now to the next bit - the ute went up under a 3 tonne pantec? forgive my ignorance, what is a pantec?

it's great you saw the official police report. but how did the accident happen? what, the driver was doing 200km/h and a 'pantec' just appeared in front of him? that's the only way I can see it being "all related to speed" - then again, the falling pantec would be a factor to i guess...

he might of been speeding - but i wanted to know how you justify saying "it was all related to speed"... what actually happened?

it's like saying a person who jumped out of the sky died because of the speed they were going. no. they died because their parachute didn't open and they hit the ground. there are multiple factors in every accident - it's important to understand how the accident happened to find the main factor. i'm not saying speed wasn't a factor - but in many accidents, it's just a part of the accident - not the cause.

[EL_Alley_Cat]

Ive been driving along a road with new tyres on it, come around a sharp corner, hit a pot hole and it ripped my tyre apart and slid off the road and i was doing UNDER the speed limit and it wasn't wet or anything the like so you have to wonder about the quality of the bleeping roads the amount paid in tax and the amount of lives it would save I dont see why they havent and probably wont fix our roads nation wide looks like they just dont give a bleep abt their voters and tax payers!

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by naughtyfalcon

ANYTHING YOU SAID IN THE ABOVE POSTS

You have absolultly no idea do you. None at all.