Fines Victoria crisis deepens, leaving massive hole in state budget

[Franco Cozzo]

Fines Victoria crisis deepens, leaving massive hole in state budget

Victoria’s system for collecting fines is failing on a massive scale, leaving a hole of nearly $330 million in the state’s finances.

The software system used by Fines Victoria to collect court fines and infringements for parking, red-light camera and speeding offences does not work, leading to a massive backlog of infringement notices that cannot be enforced by the Department of Justice.

Authorities insist that the fines system is still functioning and that the onus remains on users to pay their fines, even if they have not received reminder notices.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...sMT3mrx8M3i1WI

I thought it was about safety, not revenue?

[ryeman]

What’s new about governments running down systems and endless patches finally crashing.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dr Smith]

Why is it there are so many stories of governments and the problems they get into when they replace or "upgrade" their software in their departments. Obviously it's not as easy as walking into Officeworks, grabbing a MS office voucher and running home to install it however it always seems as though the vendor over states their product abilities, issues pop up during transition and it's the government that covers the extra costs. It never seems as though the governement signs a deal where they don't carry any liability.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Why is it there are so many stories of governments and the problems they get into when they replace or "upgrade" their software in their departments. Obviously it's not as easy as walking into Officeworks, grabbing a MS office voucher and running home to install it however it always seems as though the vendor over states their product abilities, issues pop up during transition and it's the government that covers the extra costs. It never seems as though the governement signs a deal where they don't carry any liability.

Has any IT infrastructure project EVER gone smoothly? That whole industry is built on over promise and under deliver, I wish I could sell people unicorns at work then throw my hands up in the air when it doesn't work

[russellw]

Without wishing to generalise, most Government agencies are ill-equipped to handle major IS transitions but I've witnessed this first hand and can say that ..

1. The handful of major rip-off merchants big vendors who operate in this project space are very good at overselling their capabilities and under-delivering their services while milking the dollar at a rate that is mind-boggling. It should be noted that this is not unique to them or Government projects but these big 'public money' failures get media attention.

2. Most agencies go into these projects under-prepared and with no real idea of just what is involved. Having said that, I was involved in one where the agency spent 18 months preparing; were very clear on the desired outcomes and well led by their management but the vendor(s) still couldn't deliver and several million went down the toilet.

It is possible to get a good outcome but you need a very clearly defined SoW; leadership willing to drive the vendor hard and a willingness to stop the money flow if clearly defined milestones aren't met.

The bit that really surprises me is that the same handful of vendors keep failing very publicly and for big $$ but always seem to be able to win new projects where the rest of us would be out of business.

[simon varley]

when they remove the fines revenue from their budgets, that's the day I will believe the States give a **** about road safety

[T3rminator]

That might explain why last weekend there were cop cars pointing their lasers at EVERY on ramp on the M1. Saw 3 cars get nabbed at 7am in the morning.

The "marked" cars are also getting more stealthy in looks. You can't see they are police cars unless up close.

Have also seen people get nabbed on the eastern freeway by unmarked cars which were hiluxes and vans.

[Citroënbender]

The unmarked commercials would be easy to spot - pov spec, observing the road rules!

[simon varley]

really? I see popo commit just as many traffic offences as the rest of us.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

That might explain why last weekend there were cop cars pointing their lasers at EVERY on ramp on the M1. Saw 3 cars get nabbed at 7am in the morning.

The "marked" cars are also getting more stealthy in looks. You can't see they are police cars unless up close.

Have also seen people get nabbed on the eastern freeway by unmarked cars which were hiluxes and vans.

Yep they were out in force last night all over Bulla in Melbourne's NW suburbs.

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Why is it there are so many stories of governments and the problems they get into when they replace or "upgrade" their software in their departments.

Sometimes it's corruption sometimes ignorance.

I worked for CSIRO many moons ago. We had the best it infrastructure in the country. The people who ran it were incredibly dedicated and skilled. Nothing ever went wrong and if you had a problem it got sorted asap. Then the big wigs in canberra got into bed with microsoft. Internal politics, gradual transition to MS servers from unix. People left (and got huge pay rises) the system fell apart and certain ex managers got cushy jobs with microsoft and others had remarkably well funded lives the sources of which were not at all clear.

Qld health instituted a new payroll system which cost 100's of millions and failed. Big scandal. What you never heard was that queensland rail although a much smaller organisation actually had a more complex pay system, more awards and variations than qld health. I spoke to one of the blokes in the payroll section, he told me that had offered to do it for a few mill and it would have worked first time, but IBM got the contract (somehow) and the rest is history. QR was the most broken place I've ever worked, but at least we always had the small comfort of knowing we would only ever be the second most hopeless department in the state...

Autodesk (cad software) realised in the early 90's that the people who make purchase decisions are often not the technical staff. Instead of appealing to the end user or it staff they employed slick suited salesmen to smooze management. Management bought the product and everyone else was stuck with it. SAP (and others) do the same thing. 9/10 SAP installations are basically unusable, but management "egos" are bigger than their brains. Trouble is they leave for their next debacle before the company goes bankrupt...

[marty351]

And all the while the politicians vote themselves a much deserved pay rise.

And what do we say?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by simon varley

really? I see popo commit just as many traffic offences as the rest of us.

Love it when they put the lights on to run red lights, then get 100 metres up the road and switch the lights back off again.

[roKWiz]

With all that new freeway netting all over the place, the cops have nowhere to hide now. That must be a big blow.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Love it when they put the lights on to run red lights, then get 100 metres up the road and switch the lights back off again.

you do realise can respond without the disco lights & music

[GASWAGON]

So this is actually proof that the fines are actually revenue raising if there is a huge hole!!!!!!!!!!

What the **** are they doing fining people at 7am in the morning while were all trying to drive to ****ing work????

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

With all that new freeway netting all over the place, the cops have nowhere to hide now. That must be a big blow.

I thought the same thing between Geelong and Melbourne. There’s still plenty of spots for them to hide, and sometimes they just hide in plain sight.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Love it when they put the lights on to run red lights, then get 100 metres up the road and switch the lights back off again.

I've only seen it at 5:55pm, the lights turn off just before they turn into the street that the police station is on. I like going home too, but come on.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by au2000

you do realise can respond without the disco lights & music

Yeah, but don't tell me there aren't times when putting the lights on to go through red lights isn't a "bit convenient".

[au2000]

Human nature is that there's always a occasional fool in every employment field, it would be like claiming all engine builders are masters at their craft, some just think they are,

Having said that, I don't think there's 1 person in Australia believes speed cameras are here to save lives and not earn governments revenue. Mind you I love nsw marked speed camera cars, if you get a fine after passing signs warning cameras ahead or you miss the marked car with the flashing yellow lights you probably deserve it.

Like all modern developments, it's about technology being created to remove the human element and reduce costs, no different to ATMs and self serve checkouts, reduced costs, higher profit / income.

Same will happen when electric vehicles become the norm, the governments will find a new way to get their lost tax dollars off us once fuel taxes drop.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by au2000

Human nature is that there's always a occasional fool in every employment field, it would be like claiming all engine builders are masters at their craft, some just think they are,

Having said that, I don't think there's 1 person in Australia believes speed cameras are here to save lives and not earn governments revenue. Mind you I love nsw marked speed camera cars, if you get a fine after passing signs warning cameras ahead or you miss the marked car with the flashing yellow lights you probably deserve it.

Like all modern developments, it's about technology being created to remove the human element and reduce costs, no different to ATMs and self serve checkouts, reduced costs, higher profit / income.

Same will happen when electric vehicles become the norm, the governments will find a new way to get their lost tax dollars off us once fuel taxes drop.

What warning signs? They don't do that in Victoria.

Mind you, can spot them from a mile away when there is a new SUV parked on the side of the road, or the cameras under the signs on the Western Ring Road, or in the Burnley Tunnel

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What warning signs? They don't do that in Victoria.

Mind you, can spot them from a mile away when there is a new SUV parked on the side of the road, or the cameras under the signs on the Western Ring Road, or in the Burnley Tunnel

You need to re read that I think ....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by au2000

You need to re read that I think ....

Oops - NSW!

Anyway, you know what I love about speed cameras?



They don't pick you up for driving illegally modified cars, tint being too dark or using your phone while you drive and they don't even get you for speeding when you know where they all are

I'm all for the human element being removed because it creates more opportunity for me to get away with doing the wrong thing.

[au2000]

Think nsw are now trialling a camera which will pick up mobile phone

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by au2000

Think nsw are now trialling a camera which will pick up mobile phone

They certainly are - but it has to be mounted on a bridge and when you know which bridge it is, its no problem

If they were really worried about phone use while driving it would be more than the 4 points and the few hundred bucks it is if you get done for it.

Smells like revenue.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by au2000

Think nsw are now trialling a camera which will pick up mobile phone

Yep, on trials they caught 1 in 8 drivers on their mobiles. I can’t wait for it, should be a minimum 1k fine and loss of licence.

I’ve never understood all this whinging about cops and speed cameras. I’ve been driving modified fast cars for 16 years and never had an issue. Just follow the rules, and if you don’t, make sure you choose the right spot, simples

[Franco Cozzo]

Another good one is the nominate a driver to take the points - or just pay the $3000 fine if you get caught speeding in company vehicles:

Under the laws, companies that get a fine do not have to tell Victoria Police who was driving at the time of the infringement, if they pay the $3,000.

This compares to paying around $300 if they do say who was driving.

The commissioner's data-crunching found that in the last two financial years, companies paid off more than 50,000 inflated fines and did not disclose the driver as a result.

Of those infringements, 4,280 drivers would have lost their licences automatically if they had been identified.

Commissioner John Voyage said it was clear this avoidance was intentional.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-...fines/11541316

Which they're having a sook about people willing to pay the $3000 fine

Its cheaper for the company to pay $3000 a hit rather than lose productivity on their staff losing licenses and being stuck in the office (or losing their jobs).

In one case, one single company vehicle paid off 31 loss-of-licence events in the two-year period.

That amounts to $93,000 in fines.

I guess their $93,000 payday now equals $0 when the system stops working

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Another good one is the nominate a driver to take the points - or just pay the $3000 fine if you get caught speeding in company vehicles:







https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-...fines/11541316



Which they're having a sook about people willing to pay the $3000 fine



Its cheaper for the company to pay $3000 a hit rather than lose productivity on their staff losing licenses and being stuck in the office (or losing their jobs).







I guess their $93,000 payday now equals $0 when the system stops working

My old boss used to exactly that. He would always speed in his clubby and when the fine came in he would just nominate ‘unknown driver’ and pay the higher fine. Probably tax deductible too
Govts don’t care because it increases their revenue whilst reducing their workload.

[MITCHAY]

I think it's disgraceful that any government budgets on revenue from traffic offences to this extent. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

And by the way you Mexicans **** me off driving around here slow

[guzzis3]

Speed cameras were great for me. I used to get booked all the time for speeding when I wasn't. They would assume because I was driving my torana or on my motorcycle that I must be doing something wrong so I got done. Once speed cameras took over I only get done when I'm actually over the limit which is almost never. I got more speeding tickets in 5 years in the 90's than I've had in the last 20 years.

But as I've said previously it's so much easier to build a case based on the data that mass anti speeding campaigns increase the road toll than reduce it, but no one cares about the data. No one cares about real solutions. People only care about religious wars...