XC Bathurst Cobra - 170MPH???

XR6WGN · 11-02-2016, 08:17 PM

Just received the latest edition of Australian Muscle Car and in there is a page story on a guy here in Adelaide who was selling a well used Bathurst Cobra (031 is the number - last Bathurst one made)

Read the story and basically 351 with a 750 holley (doesn't mention any other mods - so fairly stock) and this is what made me laugh:

"There were not too many places where you could let the car stretch out its legs to 170MPH!!"

I know he's trying to sell this car but come on?? I'm willing to be convinced of this but the XY GTHO was good for 140MPH but a stock 351 XC Cobra doing 30 MPH more with just a 750Holley Come On????

4vxc · 11-02-2016, 08:21 PM

and thats only in 2nd!

xxx000 · 11-02-2016, 08:23 PM

Without the stripes they do 200mph

XR Martin · 11-02-2016, 08:25 PM

They wouldnt do much more than 140mph due to gearing.
GTHO sat on 6150rpm or so to do that speed.

.:4:. · 11-02-2016, 08:32 PM

Even if it had longer gears in the diff it would run out of steam before 140mph... maybe 170kmh, but that's a bit sad

snopony · 11-02-2016, 08:41 PM

Conrod is only about a mile as the crow flys from here... anyone wanna lend me one I'll do a Mythbusters...

thats 273klms ph yeh?

XR6WGN · 11-02-2016, 08:50 PM

According to the story - it was sold and is heading west (at a great rate of Knots

) he was asking around the 120,000 mark. It was in Unique Cars last month but the link is no longer available.

snopony · 11-02-2016, 08:52 PM

I can only find in statistics of the 1977 race average speed of winning car was 144kmh, or 89mph. thats a big difference.
Anyone know the top speed....?

290GTP · 11-02-2016, 08:57 PM

About 260 maybe 265 klicks down Conrod was all they could manage

snopony · 11-02-2016, 09:17 PM

say 260kph.. thats 161mph.. id say its possible

minheim · 11-02-2016, 09:27 PM

I'm fairly certain that John French reached 156 mph in the 1972 race in his XY GTHO phase 3 which is the record for that race class. I can remember seeing it in a classified ad when the car was up for sale decades ago. Conrod in 1972 didn't have the chicane and the 1972 race was the last series production great race. The chicane was introduced in 1987 from memory.

Ford17 · 11-02-2016, 09:28 PM

Moffat - 159 MPH (255.88 Km/h) on his Hardies Heros lap in 1978:

https://youtu.be/jLk1EiK5R7s

XR6WGN · 11-02-2016, 09:44 PM

Hmm but if it is true (which I seriously doubt) he'd be doing it on the open road - the pictures still show the original 15 x 7 globes too!!!!

Express · 11-02-2016, 10:06 PM

It probably has a lightened flywheel.

snopony · 11-02-2016, 10:18 PM

Just had a read on the cobra statistics, no idea if this is correct, Cobras number 2 thru 31 were fitted with option 97, optional parts fitted to allow for racing but seems limited to twin thermos, engine oil cooler and racing seats.
Maybe those cars had more 'tweaking' than others from factory.
God knows what Ford actually ended up putting in them as they rolled out the 400.(or admitted to on the order.

Tassie f100 · 11-02-2016, 10:39 PM

Well back in the day there were stories of Ph3s being flogged up the Hume at 160mph plus so I guess 170 shouldn't be beyond an XC

2011G6E · 11-02-2016, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

It probably has a lightened flywheel.

...and a Hi-Clone under the carby...

jaydee · 11-02-2016, 10:48 PM

Nah, I don't think so, the wind drag would be way too high over 200kays to get to 270plus

2011G6E · 11-02-2016, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

Nah, I don't think so, the wind drag would be way too high over 200kays to get to 270plus

Yes, there was some calculation about how much horsepower you had to add to get each extra MPH once the speed got over 100mph. It was a scale that just kept climbing exponentially. Look at the Veyron...it has to use 1000hp to punch that slippery body through the air at 400kph, and I seem to recall something about it only needing half that power to reach 300, but the other half was needed for that last 100kph, or similar.

minheim · 11-02-2016, 11:23 PM

If the XC car is close to standard then he's dreaming. It is heavier than a phase 3, and standard has less power and is fitted with anti-pollution gear for a start. The John French phase 3 car would have had a blueprinted engine and been virtually handbuilt for racing as it went down the production line. Given the French car reached 156 mph on conrod in the hands of a skilled driver I can't see the XC getting near that during open road time. Bear in mind that the XC production car was not built for series production racing but for group C meaning Ford didn't need to produce a real race car.

cro142 · 11-02-2016, 11:26 PM

He's Dreamin'

XR6WGN · 11-02-2016, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopony

Just had a read on the cobra statistics, no idea if this is correct, Cobras number 2 thru 31 were fitted with option 97, optional parts fitted to allow for racing but seems limited to twin thermos, engine oil cooler and racing seats.
Maybe those cars had more 'tweaking' than others from factory.
God knows what Ford actually ended up putting in them as they rolled out the 400.(or admitted to on the order.

They called them racing seats but they were really only the Scheel 201s (same as what were fitted in the "Australian" Escort RS2000s and later in the ESPs) The option 97 also included body braces, (stiffer) the reverse bonnet scoop, deeper fibreglass front spoiler and more clearance in the rear wheel arches (to fit the wider rear tyres) They were basically a Homologation special to allow the cars to go racing. They also had no Air conditioning or Power steering fitted but I find it unlikely that they would have received any engine tweeks especially when most of the 30 were destined for the road.

CoupeKing · 11-02-2016, 11:32 PM

Great White with no teeth.

2011G6E · 11-02-2016, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minheim

If the XC car is close to standard then he's dreaming. It is heavier than a phase 3, and standard has less power and is fitted with anti-pollution gear for a start. The John French phase 3 car would have had a blueprinted engine and been virtually handbuilt for racing as it went down the production line. Given the French car reached 156 mph on conrod in the hands of a skilled driver I can't see the XC getting near that during open road time. Bear in mind that the XC production car was not built for series production racing but for group C meaning Ford didn't need to produce a real race car.

That's what I was thinking...wasn't the road going Cobra more a styling thing than an actual balls out racecar-for-the-road like earlier GT's and similar cars were?
If it was lumbered with all the anti-pollution, then that was the dying times for the big V8's as anti-pollution regs bit hard...remember that the last 351 in the later XE ESP was only putting out about 140-odd kilowatts...

66GT · 12-02-2016, 05:37 AM

I've heard that xc coupe HWP cars getting to 210-220kmh back in their day. Similar spec car without the the fibreglass & stripes. Can anyone confirm any higher?

**Kingsley** · 12-02-2016, 08:08 AM

Part of the reason I stopped buying AMCM. Too much myth being printed as fact.

The early production Cobra's were much like the production A9X's. The engines were less powerful compared to their early 70's brothers because they had to comply with ADR27A.

When Wheels did the testing on both in '78, the Cobra's top speed was 204 KPH (126 MPH) and the A9X top speed was 206 KPH (128 MPH). I doubt a 750 Holley would make up the difference.

Bushbasher · 12-02-2016, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6WGN

They called them racing seats but they were really only the Scheel 201s (same as what were fitted in the "Australian" Escort RS2000s and later in the ESPs) The option 97 also included body braces, (stiffer) the reverse bonnet scoop, deeper fibreglass front spoiler and more clearance in the rear wheel arches (to fit the wider rear tyres) They were basically a Homologation special to allow the cars to go racing. They also had no Air conditioning or Power steering fitted but I find it unlikely that they would have received any engine tweeks especially when most of the 30 were destined for the road.

I believe it was actually the reverse. The front spoiler was actually a little shorter to allow for the car to be lowered in race trim without wiping the spoiler out.

GT450 · 12-02-2016, 08:22 AM

If my memory serves me correctly they had engine, gearbox and diff coolers and were certainly capable of 160mph on the right road.They are a rare beast and should be celebrated, not have the proverbial kicked out of them by those who are only going on what they think they know.
GT450

MethodX · 12-02-2016, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superpursuit05

Part of the reason I stopped buying AMCM. Too much myth being printed as fact.

The early production Cobra's were much like the production A9X's. The engines were less powerful compared to their early 70's brothers because they had to comply with ADR27A.

When Wheels did the testing on both in '78, the Cobra's top speed was 204 KPH (126 MPH) and the A9X top speed was 206 KPH (128 MPH). I doubt a 750 Holley would make up the difference.

True, the engines didn't have to be wild, because it was group c... engine mods were practically free.
Off the top of me head the bathurst cobras had -
Widened rear wheel arches.
Hood scoop
Electric fan kit
Idler arm support bracket.
Strut brace.
provision for a left side tramp rod, not all of them got it though
transmission oil cooler
String tower reinforcements
modified cross member.

**FairmontGS** · 12-02-2016, 08:30 AM

All a myth I'm afraid. I was closely acquainted with Cobra 029 some years back. It was stock as delivered with low kms and it barely made more than a standard XC 351 GT Power pack on the dyno. Looked great but a bit toothless.