'Herald Sun Cars Guide' and 'Having a Clue' are 2 phrases that should not be linked.

[brodfloyd]

I know this isn't the first time i've banged on about accuracy and checking facts in the australian motoring media, but here is another rant.

Page 6, Herald sun cars guide, Last Paragraph.
Quite plainly states that FPV is 51% owned by Prodrive, who in turn is owned by Tom Walkinshaw.
HELLO??? Dont you mean David Richards? Does anyone proof read?
Just blatantly wrong. no clue.

Page 7, From 2010 ford will use the new jag V8 in the falcon
big article about it, but they forgot one thing.

It wont.

Its the jag AJV8, can be made in sizes from 4 to 5 litres, its a nice engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_AJ-V8_engine but it wont be in a falcon.

Really, it wont. Dont lie herald sun. Why you ask?

Its too expensive. It is not related to any other ford engine. It is pretty much exclusively used by only one company. Because its designed for Luxury vehicles built in low numbers, It is somewhat more 'fancy' and fancy costs more. ('fancy' refers to design, materials, technology and production methods)

Jaguar produce a small number of cars, hence make a low number of engines compared with what the Hurricane (Boss) engine production will be. (Economy of scale) Think of the comparitive costs per unit.

The Hurricane is being developed and engineered to be compatable with the new platform that the mustang/crown vic/falcon are rumoured to be built on. The jag engine has only been used used in jags and a couple of lincolns (high end vehicles, not mass produced family cars). The smart money on a replacement engine for our current boss is on the hurricane or one of its variants, probably the 5.8l that some on this forum already call the cleveland.

The hurricane v8 variants will be specifically designed with cars like the falcon in mind, partly due to criticism of the 5.4 mod engines height, weight and other design factors as it was originally designed as a truck engine.

Ford wouldnt import an engine from a company it has on the market and may be sold by 2010???

The hurricane engine has not been released yet, so beating up a story on an engine that is only in development with only patchy rumours and specifications is pretty hard to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Boss_engine

The writers in the herald sun cars guide claim to be profesional car writers. Its what they do for a job, they spend all week preparing for and producing an insert for the friday paper and its what they tell everyone they know that they do for a living and what they are experts on.

Clearly it's not the case. Hang your collective heads in shame.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

I know this isn't the first time i've banged on about accuracy and checking facts in the australian motoring media, but here is another rant.

Page 6, Herald sun cars guide, Last Paragraph.
Quite plainly states that FPV is 51% owned by Prodrive, who in turn is owned by Tom Walkinshaw.
HELLO??? Dont you mean David Richards? Does anyone proof read?
Just blatantly wrong. no clue.

Page 7, From 2010 ford will use the new jag V8 in the falcon
bit article about it, but they forgot one thing.

It wont.

Its written so that Holden fanboys can stroke themselves and convice each other that they bought the right car. If you dont read it you wont get upset ive found . i suggest you treat it more like a comic strip the way i do... then it becomes a good larf.
that is all

[|||]

the australian media is a joke. they print whatever they like to fill up the gaps between the ads. when it comes to anything car related they are laughable

[irlewy86]

Unfortunatley most newspaper car sections are written by journalists who were too retarded to send to Iraq.

[uranium_death]

The reason why I joined Ford Forums is to actually get a clue on what is happening with Ford, and to learn a little more about everything.

I look at Carsguide and just take interest, but I generally get greater confirmation here.

Don't hold it against them. Just pity them. They're lesser beings.

I read through that this morning - Would be equiv to Daily Tele in Syd?

The whole paper is rubbish.

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Unfortunatley most newspaper car sections are written by journalists who were too retarded to send to Iraq.

If it were only the newspapers it would be less distressing. But even wheels have no idea. Their Orion "scoop" was rubbish, they doctored up some of the 3week old CGI's and called them photos. Then printed the blatant error and untruth that the Hurricane engine was going to be OHV not OHC.

It makes me angry because i love cars and would dearly love a job like theirs as would many many people on these forums. Getting paid to write about cars (pretty much what we do on the forums for free) would be my dream job. But week after week they write rubbish, blatant untruths, factual errors and opinions that are paid for by advertising.

They would sell more magazines and newspapers if they had a real difference of opinion and more ethical standards. We all know that the internet will have the scoops 3 weeks before it comes out in a magazine, but if they mags had well thought out articles with solid and dependable different relevant opinions and tests unique to australian motorists, they would still sell to people like us.

[blueoval]

carsguide is only good for selling cars. Never for factual information.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Unfortunatley most newspaper car sections are written by journalists who were too retarded to send to Iraq.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thats a classic.

But seriously, the Cras Guide is good for one thing only: birdcage liner.

[timz]

You can't exactly take Wikipedia's written word for anything either, just look at the refrences used, if the article even has any.
Any Joe on the net can post/edit content on there and then clam it to be the gospel.

No that I'm saying what those articles in particular are incorrect.

Just my 2cents :evil3:

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by timz

You can't exactly take Wikipedia's written word for anything either, just look at the refrences used, if the article even has any.
Any Joe on the net can post/edit content on there and then clam it to be the gospel.

No that I'm saying what those articles in particular are incorrect.

Just my 2cents :evil3:

i was only using them as examples. I mainly went there for the overview on the AJV8, it is a pretty comprehensive overview of the engine and its facts are pretty spot on when compared to motoring magazines and other articles i have read.

you are however right about the hurricane one, i only posted it cos i was already there. It could be wrong, but on fairly uncontriversial stuff like engines, wikipedia is usually pretty good. and from all of the reading i have done about hurricane from various sources, it was consistent.

Its a good point though, dont believe everything you read, eg, that there is a twinforce v8 with direct injection and twin turbos.

[sleekism]

Anybody got a scan of the article? It could actually be quite good publicity for Ford the Jaguar relationship.

Except there is one problem.....

Isn't the Jaguar V8 a small capacity based on the Duratec V6 and in top of the line supercharged form only scrapes over 290kw?

And for the rumours about a 5L V8 based on the new Duratec I was wondering whether the Duratec is 60 degrees or 90 degrees?

Would they really build a 60 degree V8??

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Anybody got a scan of the article? It could actually be quite good publicity for Ford the Jaguar relationship.

Except there is one problem.....

Isn't the Jaguar V8 a small capacity based on the Duratec V6 and in top of the line supercharged form only scrapes over 290kw?

And for the rumours about a 5L V8 based on the new Duratec I was wondering whether the Duratec is 60 degrees or 90 degrees?

Would they really build a 60 degree V8??

nah mate the AJV8 isnt a v8 version of the duratec, its a unique design.
it can be built in sizes up to 5 litres and can pump out huge power. i suggest that you read the wiki on it and the sources its uses.

[TZENU]

HS Cars guide is only good for finding out what events are on during the weekend....

I gave up on all those so called "Reviews" years ago and decided to judge a car based on my experiences... simple.

[Bobman]

What about the Holden biased "Smithy" ?

[brodfloyd]

Someone started a new thread with an online link to the article.

http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0...-21822,00.html

its just rubbish.

And the Engine isnt new! its been in production for over 10 years. Not as the 5l version, but still, its blatantly twisting the facts.

375kw in a 2010 falcon??? pull the other one!!!
i mean, we'd all like that, but really, not going to happen unless its like the 150,000 dollar HSV GTSR type vehicle.

[FPV]

This Herald Sun article is commenting on the all new Jaguar V8 to be launched in the next few years. The Jaguar XF will initially be launched with the 4.2/4.2S AJV8s, however they will be replaced by the new 5.0l v8. This new v8 is rumoured to produce 375kw in supercharged form and will power the XF-R and possibly an updated XK-R or rumoured XKR-R.

I don't see why FPV shouldn't use this engine if the costs are similar to assembling the BOSS290 motor, why not amortise costs of the new jaguar v8 and share it with other ford vehicles? Sure there is a new Ford v8 coming along in the future, but I think the Jaguar V8 should be placed in the FPVs to prove them as a truly premium product.

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by FPV

This Herald Sun article is commenting on the all new Jaguar V8 to be launched in the next few years. The Jaguar XF will initially be launched with the 4.2/4.2S AJV8s, however they will be replaced by the new 5.0l v8. This new v8 is rumoured to produce 375kw in supercharged form and will power the XF-R and possibly an updated XK-R or rumoured XKR-R.

I don't see why FPV shouldn't use this engine if the costs are similar to assembling the BOSS290 motor, why not amortise costs of the new jaguar v8 and share it with other ford vehicles? Sure there is a new Ford v8 coming along in the future, but I think the Jaguar V8 should be placed in the FPVs to prove them as a truly premium product.

There isnt an ALL NEW jag v8, its just a bored out version of the current one with a bit more technology thrown in from a decades worth of development and experience. Its just new, new like the barra I6 compared to the AU I6. Its the same type of new that the 5.4l mod V8 is compared to the 4.6l one.

And you are wrong, FPV should not use it and wont use it. Here is why.

It would cost too much per unit. An all alloy engine, built in Wales producing 375kw will not be cheap enough for fpv to justify the cost. especially of engineering it specially just for orion fpvs. if they couldnt justify the cost of engineering the ESP for FPV's, how could they justify importing, engineering and producing a totally different engine to the xr8??? Lets not forget that ford would need another V8 for the XR8 if as you suggest this engine is only for the "Premium" FPV's.

It wont be launched in "the next few years", it has to be ready, engineered and approved for use in 2010 which means, we hopefully would have to have it being tested in mules now-ish.

FPV's version of Premium is not the same league Premium that Jaguar refers to. GTP 70k+* XJR 200k+* Thats not knocking FPV, because FPV arent trying to be jaguar. Value for money with FPV is amazing as it is already.

Jaguar may be sold by 2010. Ford will not buy an engine from an outside company when they have their own.

We would not assemble it here as you suggest. The materials required would cost too much to source domestically.

The hurricane v8 or even an updated boss would be able to fulfil the job better and far more cost effectively. Remember, some of the limitations of our current Boss v8 is that the AU was not designed with the engine in mind.

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

Jaguar may be sold by 2010. Ford will not buy an engine from an outside company when they have their own.

We would not assemble it here as you suggest. The materials required would cost too much to source domestically.

The hurricane v8 or even an updated boss would be able to fulfil the job better and far more cost effectively. Remember, some of the limitations of our current Boss v8 is that the AU was not designed with the engine in mind.

Isnt the "Jag" engine build in the Ford engine plant in Cologne though, technically making it a Ford engine.

[FPV]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

There isnt an ALL NEW jag v8, its just a bored out version of the current one with a bit more technology thrown in from a decades worth of development and experience. Its just new, new like the barra I6 compared to the AU I6. Its the same type of new that the 5.4l mod V8 is compared to the 4.6l one.

And you are wrong, FPV should not use it and wont use it. Here is why.

It would cost too much per unit. An all alloy engine, built in Wales producing 375kw will not be cheap enough for fpv to justify the cost. especially of engineering it specially just for orion fpvs. if they couldnt justify the cost of engineering the ESP for FPV's, how could they justify importing, engineering and producing a totally different engine to the xr8??? Lets not forget that ford would need another V8 for the XR8 if as you suggest this engine is only for the "Premium" FPV's.

It wont be launched in "the next few years", it has to be ready, engineered and approved for use in 2010 which means, we hopefully would have to have it being tested in mules now-ish.

FPV's version of Premium is not the same league Premium that Jaguar refers to. GTP 70k+* XJR 200k+* Thats not knocking FPV, because FPV arent trying to be jaguar. Value for money with FPV is amazing as it is already.

Jaguar may be sold by 2010. Ford will not buy an engine from an outside company when they have their own.

We would not assemble it here as you suggest. The materials required would cost too much to source domestically.

The hurricane v8 or even an updated boss would be able to fulfil the job better and far more cost effectively. Remember, some of the limitations of our current Boss v8 is that the AU was not designed with the engine in mind.

Maybe I am wrong, I have been following Jaguar's development of the XKR and XF models for quite awhile and there is no "bored out" version of the 5.0l AJV8 coming along. There will be basic techniques used in the development of this 5.0l V8, thats just inevitable as the AJV8 is an excellent engine but it is lacking in the current performance engine market. Currently it is rumoured they are testing the new jaguar V8 in XKR and XF/S Type mules:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/jaguar-xkr-r-future.html
http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/j...and-500hp-xkr/

Have a look at them, there is not much information of the V8s. Yes it will be expensive but if Ford do go for the V8s then good on them. The engines are also tipped to power the next Range Rover models. Jaguar may be sold off, but I would think the engines would still be part of the Ford product family, I thought that as part of the Aston Martin sale that Ford would continue to provide the powerplants. I think it's strange that both Motor and now the Herald Sun have mentioned the new Jaguar V8, especially when it is well known that Ford are developing new V8s.

[superpursuit83]

I have just read this months Aussie Muscle Car. The story about the end of the current engines and the new ones comung, is probably the closest story to fact that I have read. But it also says that Ford is designing a dedicated rwd engine. And Ford AU will finally be able to use an engine designed for them. First time ever.

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

Isnt the "Jag" engine build in the Ford engine plant in Cologne though, technically making it a Ford engine.

nope it is made by ford in wales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by FPV

Maybe I am wrong, I have been following Jaguar's development of the XKR and XF models for quite awhile and there is no "bored out" version of the 5.0l AJV8 coming along. There will be basic techniques used in the development of this 5.0l V8, thats just inevitable as the AJV8 is an excellent engine but it is lacking in the current performance engine market. Currently it is rumoured they are testing the new jaguar V8 in XKR and XF/S Type mules:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/jaguar-xkr-r-future.html
http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/j...and-500hp-xkr/

Have a look at them, there is not much information of the V8s. Yes it will be expensive but if Ford do go for the V8s then good on them. The engines are also tipped to power the next Range Rover models. Jaguar may be sold off, but I would think the engines would still be part of the Ford product family, I thought that as part of the Aston Martin sale that Ford would continue to provide the powerplants. I think it's strange that both Motor and now the Herald Sun have mentioned the new Jaguar V8, especially when it is well known that Ford are developing new V8s.

re-read those articles mate, "new" and "range topping" are mentioned but not "all new." It is a new engine, because nothing with those specs has been in a production jag, but its still an AJV8 based motor.

to quote the articles;

The updated front fascia — plus the racing-oriented interior features — suggest these cars might contain a more powerful engine: possibly a new range-topping supercharged V8 to compete with the BMW M6. Earlier this year, rumors broke about a Jaguar XKR-R ("XK double R") with roughly 500 horsepower.

where does it say "all new"? or "not based on the AJV8, but a totally new"??? no it doesnt.

The gaping holes in the test car’s bonnet are said to send cold air to a newly developed supercharged engine that develop upwards of 500hp.

One, a 4.2L V8 version with around 420hp on tap, and the other a high-performance flagship with a supercharged 5.0L V8 developing between 460 and 500hp that will be shared with the XK coupe.

This article just mentions a supercharged 5 litre V8 producing up to 500hp, nothing about a totally new v8.

This mentions nothing about these engines not being in the AJ-V8 family.
It just says that they are new. and they will be but all new, i think not.

And "newly developed" indicates that it is derived from a current engine, "newly designed" would better support your argument. I think you are reading things into the article that you want to see.

As for your claim that there is no scope for further development. its a supercharged engine. There is always room for development with a supercharger. especially when you increase displacement. Its a mechanically driven air pump. Pump in more air, pump in more fuel and it will produce more horsepower, its pretty basic.

The herald sun also says that tom walkinshaw owns prodrive so dont believe everything you read.

I'm not saying it would not be good to have the jag v8 in the falcon, but its simply not economically viable. It would cost way too much. There is a reason it is only in top of the market vehicles.

[FPV]

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Jaguar produces in the future, the XF is going to be pretty exciting and the small reveals have already occurred. From your wikipedia article i cannot see any mention of the future 5.0l V8 other then a racing version that is not used in any road vehicles. I am surprised you are so confident that the future Jaguar V8 will be based on the AJV8, i guess only time will prove if you are right or wrong. The models sporting the engine should be launched within the next 2-3 years.

[The Stylist]

Highly unlikely that any Jaguar engine will end up in the Falcon, why?
Jaguar is in the process of being sold off!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by The Stylist

Highly unlikely that any Jaguar engine will end up in the Falcon, why?
Jaguar is in the process of being sold off!

Unless they sell jag of and still keep a small share to utilise part suppliers.

[Fordman1]

Now let me get this right....

That V8 is (going to be ?) built in the English Bridgeend Ford Plant isn't it ?

So it's a Ford Engine ?

Regardless I doubt it'll be put in a Falcon. Why would Ford (re: Mulally) let a V8 engine continue production in the UK if it's for Jag & LR which are being sold ?

I think "IF" Ford Oz continue with the V8 post 2010 /11 it'll be a North American donk.

That article in the HS was written by a High School student wasn't it ?

[Tles]

I think one thing that Ford will try to do is keep a share in Jag/LR at the very minimum. In terms of platforms, switchgear, and engines, Jaguar and Land Rover have links with Volvo and Ford itself with current and future products.
Also, Jaguar / Land Rover currently use V8 and SI6 engines that are produced at the Ford Bridgend factory. Since development of the new AJ133 (5.0 Litre V8), are very advanced, Ford would be foolish to cut links. A prospective buyer would be very reluctant to overhaul the entire engine line-up at a cost of many millions. Then add in the 3.0 TDV6 and 4.4 TDV8 engines due in the next year or two, we have some extensive PAG and Ford links.

Both Ford and PAG benefit from these tie-ups. In the same way they've kept links with Aston Martin, surely Ford would want to keep these links going?

Ford Aus already have links with Jaguar including Geoff Polites for one. Jag and Land Rovers volumes are not huge so the prior comment about spreading fixed and development cost by using them in different cars, say 5-10,000 Falcons, would make perfect sense. Perhaps this is the rumoured specialist rearwheel drive engine.
A 5.0 V8 which can run a XF-R under 6sec could only be a good chance for Ford Aus.

This could be great news for Territory as well as the 3.0TDV6 twinturbo would be fantastic. As the current Jag 3.0V6 is the engine base for the 3.5V6, it is conceivable that anything which can be put into a Stype, XF or XJ will be able to fit into a 2010 Orion too. Perhaps xfingers the TD wait will not be too long.

[Falchoon]

The hard-copy Cars Guide in The Daily Telegraph quotes the TRD Aurion power as 235kw but the online version says it is 241kw!

[saber]

Originally Posted by superpursuit83

I have just read this months Aussie Muscle Car. The story about the end of the current engines and the new ones comung, is probably the closest story to fact that I have read. But it also says that Ford is designing a dedicated rwd engine. And Ford AU will finally be able to use an engine designed for them. First time ever.

Any chance you could scan the article and show it here?