NSW rural highway/motorway speed discussion

[Keepleft]

A few months the NSW Roads Minister, The Hon Duncan Gay - opened up discussion into the possibility of a 130km/h limit for NSW, in particular rural motorway.

Wasn't a lot discussion, cept on FB, here and there, but media are slowly picking up the pace:-

http://www.areanews.com.au/story/160...killer/?cs=670

We can consider recent news re NT and NSW limit discussions/development as 'good news'. Think of this along the lines of ATSB's report 'CIR 216' and its 'Outcome' re a VMS applied 130km/h limit for motorway, and its positive efect on national productivity. Google it and read.

NSW's recent Breakdown Safety Strategy also comes into play here. NSW readers might like to email the minister, offering support etc.

Cheers all.

[flappist]

I love the way that being a former police officer and now working in a council makes you an "expert" as far as the media is concerned.......

[The G6ET Spot]

Heaven help us if they ever do lift the speed limit to 130kph.

You will be doing 130 instead of the now 110kph in the outside lane then come up on some cretin doing 90-100kph instead of keeping to the left.

Until they finally get that problem in order I myself don't agree with raising the limit.

I could see more accidents happening than at present.
The problem really needs to be policed it is my biggest bug bear while driving at the moment and it is getting worse.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Heaven help us if they ever do lift the speed limit to 130kph.

You will be doing 130 instead of the now 110kph in the outside lane then come up on some cretin doing 90-100kph instead of keeping to the left.

Until they finally get that problem in order I myself don't agree with raising the limit.

I could see more accidents happening than at present.
The problem really needs to be policed it is my biggest bug bear while driving at the moment and it is getting worse.

Easily fixed....

You, yourself never go over 110 and never go into the outside lane......

[new2ford]

It should be borne in mind though that Australia is a world exception in terms of (high) speed limits for single carriageway roads:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_by_country

Nowhere is there more than 100-110, even in countries with big distances like Russia. 130 is exceptional, let alone unrestricted. So we need to be wary of using international precedent arguing single lane roads.

Motorways/dual carriageway is another matter. Australia is well behind many where 130 is common.

The distances to be covered in Australia - and therefore the minimising of journey time to reduce fatigue/highway hypnosis as an accident issue - need to be strongly taken into account.

[FGII-XR6]

you obviously don't have the required skill to drive at this speed and read the traffic conditions ahead so you are probably better off staying left so you don't become one of the annoyances you mention

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Heaven help us if they ever do lift the speed limit to 130kph.

You will be doing 130 instead of the now 110kph in the outside lane then come up on some cretin doing 90-100kph instead of keeping to the left.

Until they finally get that problem in order I myself don't agree with raising the limit.

I could see more accidents happening than at present.
The problem really needs to be policed it is my biggest bug bear while driving at the moment and it is getting worse.

[Keepleft]

new2ford; did you read that NT bit in the other thread? Discussion of signposting 150km/h and the possibility of (//) again?

Said in the other thread that 150km/h might be a result of (//) having been removed from AS1742.4 of 2008, though I had advocated an alternative 'reference' for the derestriction sign.

[Maka]

What a nice way to boost flagging reciepts on privately owned tollways in & out of Sydney! Good idea, not sure about implementation though especially when & where in NSW.

cheers, Maka

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Heaven help us if they ever do lift the speed limit to 130kph.

You will be doing 130 instead of the now 110kph in the outside lane then come up on some cretin doing 90-100kph instead of keeping to the left.

Until they finally get that problem in order I myself don't agree with raising the limit.

I could see more accidents happening than at present.
The problem really needs to be policed it is my biggest bug bear while driving at the moment and it is getting worse.

You have NO idea!
Have you ever been out of the country?
Extreme example, in Germany on Autobahns, often they ARE 2 lane each way highways, and Trucks are allowed to pass! Limited to 70 or 90 and cars can be doing 200+ and slow down for a truck. Look out the windscreen instead of your speedo!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

new2ford; did you read that NT bit in the other thread? Discussion of signposting 150km/h and the possibility of (//) again?

Said in the other thread that 150km/h might be a result of (//) having been removed from AS1742.4 of 2008, though I had advocated an alternative 'reference' for the derestriction sign.

Yes of course, thank you for reminding me.

Originally Posted by EDManual

You have NO idea!
Have you ever been out of the country?
Extreme example, in Germany on Autobahns, often they ARE 2 lane each way highways, and Trucks are allowed to pass! Limited to 70 or 90 and cars can be doing 200+ and slow down for a truck. Look out the windscreen instead of your speedo!

I survived 6 months of 120-160 km/h driving last year and didn't suffer fatigue and lapsing concentration because the journey was over quicker. I also lived.

My theory, expounded somewhere in another thread, is that the right lane hoggers will be cleared away by higher speed limits because:

. many of them don't want to go over 100 anyway
. while the speed limit is 100/110 they are comfortable in the right lane and don't think they're holding anyone up
. if the limit is 130 they will feel uncomfortable with vehicles suddenly coming up behind them at speed and will not want to stay in the right lane because it becomes a hassle

My amateur psychological take on it anyway. That is, I'm hoping the problem will solve itself.

[pajoda]

Am I on my own here (other than G6ET Spot) and not recognising the right hand lane hog problem?? Why are we all taking a swipe?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by pajoda

Am I on my own here (other than G6ET Spot) and not recognising the right hand lane hog problem?? Why are we all taking a swipe?

No, I suspect everyone is very aware of this problem.

The issue is the use of it as the latest excuse is a long line of excuses used by those who will do ANYTHING to stop speed limits being increased.

Simple stuff really.

Right hand lane hogging, drink driving, mobile phone use, listening to talk back radio and whatever else have NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with speed limits.

Some people are just very afraid of driving usually due to their own lack of ability and rather than improve themselves demand that everyone else must be pulled down to their level.

You will notice in every single post made by anyone there is never the statement "I am not capable" it is ALWAYS "Others are not capable".

This is just basic "normality syndrome".

1) I am normal.
2) Most others are normal.
3) Therefore most others are like me.
4) If I am incapable of doing something then all normal people cannot do it either so it must be banned to prevent people who are not normal (i.e. not like me) doing it.

[pajoda]

Yep, agree with those points. Still doesn't really answer my question as to why we are taking swipes at G6ET Spot, particularly EDManuals comments but I will put the keyboard away from here in order to maintain peace.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by pajoda

Yep, agree with those points. Still doesn't really answer my question as to why we are taking swipes at G6ET Spot, particularly EDManuals comments but I will put the keyboard away from here in order to maintain peace.

it possible he doesent live in NSW, were pretty good at keeping left on uncongested expressways.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by burnz

it possible he doesent live in NSW, were pretty good at keeping left on uncongested expressways.

In the country. Rural residents still tend to have sound road skills, consideration and common sense.

In Sydney they used to be sharp decades ago, now it's dropped to the lowest common denominator. I've often see people pull into a multilane road then move over to the right lane and stay there for kms, often passing signs that say "keep left unless overtaking".

[pajoda]

It gets worse, I have witnessed drivers entering motorways and pulling downright dangerous moves just to get into the right hand lane.

[burnz]

we could easily do 130 from narrellen to tarcutta, Hornsby to beresfield, Raymond terrace to coffs harbour.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by burnz

we could easily do 130 from narrellen to tarcutta, Hornsby to beresfield, Raymond terrace to coffs harbour.

Now ya talking!

[XR Martin]

Most, if not all single lane NSW rural highways are not suitable for travel above 100kmh. Roads are too patchy, very little shoulder width, poor wet weather drainage etc.

Also keep most rural highways are exactly the same as they were when they were layed out 150+ years ago, just with asphalt ontop.
Dont think they ever invisioned people doing 100kmh on them letalone 130kmh.

I think the Hume is suitable for greater speeds in certain areas though.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Most, if not all single lane NSW rural highways are not suitable for travel above 100kmh. Roads are too patchy, very little shoulder width, poor wet weather drainage etc.

What, you are kidding, aren’t you? You’ve gotta get out more. Not everything has to be wrapped in cotton wool.

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I think the Hume is suitable for greater speeds in certain areas though.

Yeah, but only in the small patch between Craigieburn and Campbelltown.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by burnz

it possible he doesent live in NSW, were pretty good at keeping left on uncongested expressways.

You are kidding aren't you or do you live in a parallel universe NSW ?

[burnz]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

You are kidding aren't you or do you live in a parallel universe NSW ?

ahh Sydney sider eh, pay for the privilege to drive in any lane because my tollway has a walking pace speed limit....

the less congested times on the Newcastle expressway, people do tend to keep left..
same with going south, but that normally happens around picton turn off.

[steve.zissou]

i do almost 100,000kms per year.

Think about this, when driving the single lane sections of the pacific hwy (lets say around cofs harbour) you can legally do 100km/h ...... in the dry.
when its bucketing down and its a million times more dangerous, visibility is down, stopping and cornering ability is lower, you can still do 100 and every one does.

I always do 10-20 km/h over the speed limit on country roads but slow down when required (I use a thing called a brain)- never even come close to an accident "that would have been avoided by traveling 10-20 km/h slower".

all my close calls have been from idots driving below the speed limits and not paying attention (disproportinate numbers of old farts with caravans).

Think of it this way, when we talk about air safety do we simply slow planes down to 200kmph because when you have an accident the damage will be less, or do we look at and address the true cause of accidents. The fact that govt ministers get driven around by drivers probably has something to do with their lack of understanding of the real world conditions.

remember only 7% of crashes are as a result of excessive speed (and this is sometimes below the posted speed limit) - if you dont believe this stat you havnt researched the facts enough to make an informed judgement (search on FF, it there)

raise the speed limits where appropriate and focus on the other 93% of causes.

[FGII-XR6]

They do? you must drive on a different F3 to me. on the one I drive on you'll be doing 110 and there will be some clown doing 80 or 90 ahead next to someone else but not going faster, flashing lights generally gets them to move over but some morons are content to block us all

Originally Posted by burnz

ahh Sydney sider eh, pay for the privilege to drive in any lane because my tollway has a walking pace speed limit....

the less congested times on the Newcastle expressway, people do tend to keep left..
same with going south, but that normally happens around picton turn off.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Heaven help us if they ever do lift the speed limit to 130kph.

You will be doing 130 instead of the now 110kph in the outside lane then come up on some cretin doing 90-100kph instead of keeping to the left.

Until they finally get that problem in order I myself don't agree with raising the limit.

I could see more accidents happening than at present.
The problem really needs to be policed it is my biggest bug bear while driving at the moment and it is getting worse.

Well said Dave, having just come back to country NSW after spending 4 days driving in Newcastle and Sydney this was also my single biggest hate of the entire trip. It is not that effing hard to stay in the left lane unless overtaking yet so many people do it, I reckon I overtook one bloke at least 5 times because I'd set the cruise, go past him, he'd floor it and zip past me and then vice versa. Just ridiculous.

But it's ok, those of us who have experienced this problem will sit back and let those who know better tell us what the real problem is....

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

Having only driven on roads from Sydney to central north coast and south down to Canberra and to Melbourne, the duel lane each way separated by land or barriers would be the only situation I could see be an advantage. love to see statistics to back it up but they surely wouldn't be as accident prone as single eachway highways where overtaking is a hazard and difficult.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Kevxr8Leexr6

Having only driven on roads from Sydney to central north coast and south down to Canberra and to Melbourne, the duel lane each way separated by land or barriers would be the only situation I could see be an advantage. love to see statistics to back it up but they surely wouldn't be as accident prone as single eachway highways where overtaking is a hazard and difficult.

Yes in high density traffic areas like arterials between major cities the separated roads would really be the only place.

But there are many roads that are very long with low density traffic which would also be able to use a higher limit. The reason why most do not know about these or consider them is that they like most others never ever drive on them.

Last time I drove to Darwin I came back down the Flinders instead of Capricorn. From Cloncurry to just outside Carters Towers (650km) I met 19 vehicles going the other way (I counted them) which is an average of one every 20 minutes.

A 130 limit there would have reduced the travel time from 7 hours to 5.5 hrs and if it had been NT would have been about 4 hrs.

Fatigue brought on by boredom is a much more common killer than speed.
If this were not the case there would not be a ring of "black spots" at about 200km from all of the capital cities in every state.

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes in high density traffic areas like arterials between major cities the separated roads would really be the only place.

But there are many roads that are very long with low density traffic which would also be able to use a higher limit. The reason why most do not know about these or consider them is that they like most others never ever drive on them.

Last time I drove to Darwin I came back down the Flinders instead of Capricorn. From Cloncurry to just outside Carters Towers (650km) I met 19 vehicles going the other way (I counted them) which is an average of one every 20 minutes.

A 130 limit there would have reduced the travel time from 7 hours to 5.5 hrs and if it had been NT would have been about 4 hrs.

Fatigue brought on by boredom is a much more common killer than speed.
If this were not the case there would not be a ring of "black spots" at about 200km from all of the capital cities in every state.

Agree in total. trip to broken hill saw as few as 20 odd cars. boring trip even for an enthusiast, its a shame more infrastructure wasn't put into long haul trips to and from major cities/towns.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by EDManual

You have NO idea!
Have you ever been out of the country?
Extreme example, in Germany on Autobahns, often they ARE 2 lane each way highways, and Trucks are allowed to pass! Limited to 70 or 90 and cars can be doing 200+ and slow down for a truck. Look out the windscreen instead of your speedo!

The only one that has no idea is you.

We are talking about Australian roads here not Germany where the drivers ARE actually taught to drive properly on high speed roads.

After doing more than 200,000kms a year for over the past 25 years I think that I may just have some idea what is going on on the roads.

And for all the other keyboard warriors on here anytime you are feel like it you can come for a trip in the truck with me and see what it is like travelling at 100kph speed limited and still having to put up with this same problem.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

The only one that has no idea is you.

We are talking about Australian roads here not Germany where the drivers ARE actually taught to drive properly on high speed roads.

After doing more than 200,000kms a year for over the past 25 years I think that I may just have some idea what is going on on the roads.

And for all the other keyboard warriors on here anytime you are feel like it you can come for a trip in the truck with me and see what it is like travelling at 100kph speed limited and still having to put up with this same problem.

Geez, you’re game. Half of the people here wouldn’t last five minutes in the truck with me before I’d throw them out the door. I would probably do the right thing and slow down a little before throwing them out though.