Holden workers to be asked to take a pay cut

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226664050759

[Rob 351]

Now Ford Aus. is done & dusted, it is amazing how the media have now put all their negative attention towards Holden. Dark days ahead for aussie manufacturing unfortunately!

[Mr G8]

Ehh... another JD article

[MethodX]

Have they started on Toyota yet?

[FGII-XR6]

it the article is correct I understand why Ford pulled out $50 / hour is unstainable in the current climate. if Ford workers had taken a cut to realistic levels they might still have a future.
I realise that it is a JD article and the figure may be wrong but anything close to this figure will spell the end of the car industry in Australia.

[Rodge]

I understand Mercedes-benz factory workers in their plants in Germany are on the equilivent of an average of $32 U.S.per hour. Not sure if that's the all-up cost to Mercedes-benz or the core hourly rate to be honest.

[P6LTD351]

Make no mistake, Holden are relieved that Ford made the decision to pull out. They are going to do the same and are already getting people ready for it.

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

it the article is correct I understand why Ford pulled out $50 / hour is unstainable in the current climate. if Ford workers had taken a cut to realistic levels they might still have a future.
I realise that it is a JD article and the figure may be wrong but anything close to this figure will spell the end of the car industry in Australia.

You should keep your opinion to yourself when you have no idea. I'm a top level fitter and Turner at ford's and it's no where even close to 50 an hour, Production workers less again.

[Dr Smith]

Labour accounts for 65 per cent of a vehicle's manufacturing cost in Australia, say local factory

That can't be right. If Dowling believes the components of a car costs less then the labour involved assembling it he's a bigger idiot then I thought. He hasn't mentioned if he is including all R&D and work before the first unit is assembled for sale if, he has without stating so then he has written a deliberating misleading story.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

You should keep your opinion to yourself when you have no idea. I'm a top level fitter and Turner at ford's and it's no where even close to 50 an hour, Production workers less again.

you may be missing the bit its not what you get but what you cost per hr..

[Gobes32]

Ford production worker is $26 an hour, by the time long service leave, sick leave, and workcover premiums etc are added on, maybe it is $50 an hour?

[jpd80]

And that's the point people see a screaming headline like $50/hour costst of an employee and assume that's the actual hourly rate.
What companies do is add up all the benefit values (cash and non-cash) to employees including wages, leave, Super contributions,
work cover insurance, training ect and then they divide through by the actual hours worked for the company which excludes
annual leave, sick leave, public holidays and any long service available.

Another sneaky one is down days when no work is done but employees receive half pay...

This is not just something specific to Ford or Holden, it's on most people's salaray and wage packages,
yet we never actually realise the cash benefit of the hourly rate attributed to actual utilization.
I was shocked when I worked out my own actual hourly rate including all benefits and allowances.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

That can't be right. If Dowling believes the components of a car costs less then the labour involved assembling it he's a bigger idiot then I thought. He hasn't mentioned if he is including all R&D and work before the first unit is assembled for sale if, he has without stating so then he has written a deliberating misleading story.

I was told labour accounts for 18%, so someone has their figures wrong. R&D and tooling costs make up half the cost of a car if worked out over the lifetime of a vehicle.

It is a tricky one to work out as it costs the same in labour to build a Territory Titanium as it does a commercial one tonner.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I was shocked when I worked out my own actual hourly rate including all benefits and allowances.

The trick is to make sure you are worth it to your employer.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The trick is to make sure you are worth it to your employer.

That's right, the perceived contribution we make to our respective employers business is why we're all paid differently...

All I know is that this very divisive topic was used as an excuse for Ford to push through,
a two tier wage system ($14/hr new hires) something rejected by workers in Canada and Ford Australia

It is a tricky one to work out as it costs the same in labour to build a Territory Titanium as it does a commercial one tonner.

That's why diesel in territory was such a huge transformation in fortunes for Ford,
a lot of sub $40K sales immediately turned int +$40K sales, pity a similar change
was not able to be done with falcon but years of discounting XR6 made it the new XT
and destroyed any perceives +$40K cache..

[Yellow_Festiva]

So, rather than cut what goes directly into the pocket of the worker, why can't they lobby to reduce some of the business expenses / red tape instead?

Paying $20-25 per hr for the pleasure of having a worker employed in top of their take home pay is what's really killing the business.

Wonder how many would choose the option of reduced benefits like sick pay / holiday pay / smoko break / tea break / clothing allowances etc over a pay cut???????

Simplistic approach???

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I was told labour accounts for 18%, so someone has their figures wrong. R&D and tooling costs make up half the cost of a car if worked out over the lifetime of a vehicle.

It is a tricky one to work out as it costs the same in labour to build a Territory Titanium as it does a commercial one tonner.

I think this is the case across many industries where the blame for plant closures is lumped on "high labour costs". Sure it is a factor, but not to the extent claimed.
The government red tape and taxes would add a decent amount of cost because countries like Thailand where it is much cheaper to make cars wouldn't have the systems in place there we have (for better and worse) and their infrastructure wouldn't be as good. Apart from the company tax rate and GST, there's a number of other taxes businesses have to pay in Australia.

Even if Holden workers do take a pay cut, what guarantees do they get that they don't get shut down in a few years anyway? Would it apply all the way through to upper management? That's the only way they might get it through if the bosses set the example first.

I've seen this before (on a smaller scale) where a few people were asked to give up entitlements so redundancies didn't have to happen. A month later 5 of about 30 were canned. So they could accept a hit to help the company and get screwed over anyway.

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you may be missing the bit its not what you get but what you cost per hr..

I think you'll find that other western countries like Europe/USA ect are more than $50 an hour.

They companies and governments can spin all the rubbish like wages/aussie dollar/carbon tax ect but it all comes down to the import tariff and import tariff only.

Thailand - 80%
Germany - 10 to 25%
Korea - 8%

The blood is on John Button's hands, the funny part is I've been a tradie for 7 years now and I have never voted labour.

Well sorry for derailing this thread back on topic :-)

[mik]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

I think you'll find that other western countries like Europe/USA ect are more than $50 an hour.

They companies and governments can spin all the rubbish like wages/aussie dollar/carbon tax ect but it all comes down to the import tariff and import tariff only.

Thailand - 80%
Germany - 10 to 25%
Korea - 8%

The blood is on John Button's hands, the funny part is I've been a tradie for 7 years now and I have never voted labour.

Well sorry for derailing this thread back on topic :-)

There is no doubt the cheap imports and govco policy have been a huge player in the demise of the Australian manufacturing industry, and what was the figure given for the extra cost per car for the carbon tax...... $168.00 ?? add to that the huge increase in energy costs over the last few years, the country is stuffed.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Have they started on Toyota yet?

They will, when they done sucking the blood out of lion and putting holden out of business.

[gtfpv]

poppy **** hogwash . always blame the human worker . liberal tactics ( media hype.. whats even worse is people are quick to blame other people !

running along the lines of " i cost myself a job because i needed $350 for a trolley of groceries , $500 pw to pay the mortgage , $106 to fill up my falcon $65 to fill up my wifes car , and all the bills , and that $5.50 cup of coffee i had before work this morning . it must be my fault , that australia cant afford to pay me .

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

I think you'll find that other western countries like Europe/USA ect are more than $50 an hour.

They companies and governments can spin all the rubbish like wages/aussie dollar/carbon tax ect but it all comes down to the import tariff and import tariff only.

Thailand - 80%
Germany - 10 to 25%
Korea - 8%

The blood is on John Button's hands, the funny part is I've been a tradie for 7 years now and I have never voted labour.

Well sorry for derailing this thread back on topic :-)

No doubt Button started the trend. But tell me this (keep in mind i dont bat for either party), what has either the Labour or Liberal govts done since the induction of the Button plan to arrest the issue? Sweet FA.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

No doubt Button started the trend. But tell me this (keep in mind i dont bat for either party), what has either the Labour or Liberal govts done since the induction of the Button plan to arrest the issue? Sweet FA.

they dont have to do anything mate . it's up to companies to stop looking after the share holders who leach money off the system . money for nothing sends everyone broke except the people funding the money for nothing .

[Road Games]

I'm pretty certain Political adgenda is against T&C's on this forum !

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

You should keep your opinion to yourself when you have no idea. I'm a top level fitter and Turner at ford's and it's no where even close to 50 an hour, Production workers less again.

I have a right to my opinion read my post before you throw venomous posts around .
to make it understandable to a top level fitter I have highlighted the parts you obviously missed in jumping to unreasonable conclusions.
maybe if Fords top level fitters are not capable of reading a simple post without getting it wrong it may explain their problem
sorry if I hurt your feelings but I usually expect people to accurately read and comprehend what I write before flaming me.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

if the article is correct I understand why Ford pulled out $50 / hour is unstainable in the current climate. if Ford workers had taken a cut to realistic levels they might still have a future.
I realise that it is a JD article and the figure may be wrong but anything close to this figure will spell the end of the car industry in Australia.

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

No doubt Button started the trend. But tell me this (keep in mind i dont bat for either party), what has either the Labour or Liberal govts done since the induction of the Button plan to arrest the issue? Sweet FA.

Agree totally.

Labour bought in the alcopop tax, that was the defining moment for me intruding on my drunken weekends is totally not on :-P

I was happy to accept work choices as I saw it as an opportunity for me. Others hated it because some companies could/would of abused it but mostly it would of weeded out all the nuffies/dead wood who are along for an easy ride

I was raised by my old man with this mindset "if you're the best at what you do you can command you're own price" and that's exactly what he did as a boilermaker named his price.

Ok I'll stop derailing this thread as it isn't the place to discuss which election party. As it's about Holden playing handball with the government and workers

Sorry

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

they dont have to do anything mate . it's up to companies to stop looking after the share holders who leach money off the system . money for nothing sends everyone broke except the people funding the money for nothing .

Sorry Chief, but what are you on about?

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I have a right to my opinion read my post before you throw venomous posts around .
to make it understandable to a top level fitter I have highlighted the parts you obviously missed in jumping to unreasonable conclusions.
maybe if Fords top level fitters are not capable of reading a simple post without getting it wrong it may explain their problem
sorry if I hurt your feelings but I usually expect people to accurately read and comprehend what I write before flaming me.

If you class my initial post as venomous I would hate to see your reaction when someone actually throws venomous words towards you. New age over sensitive world we are disgustingly becoming.

As I can see since you mentioned my job your trying to get the point across and spell it out for me word by word because I'm just a **** kicker tradie right? I'm not upset with what you wrote as I was just pointing out that you have no idea.

You agreed with what he wrote but then you throw in "if he is correct" stand up an pick a side instead of sitting on the fence scared. That's the problem with business and governments with decisions, yous are more worried about personal image and trying to please everybody so you sit on the fence but in reality you make more people angry by doing so.

Reality is everyone won't be happy.

[jpd80]

The Buton Plan was always about bringing in cheaper cars for people to buy,
thirty years on, i think that selfish attitude has cost us our auto industry.

Level playing field my A**.

[BHDOGS]

The button plan workers pay the guvment the only ones who ruined these industry and the car buyers they choose what they wanted the rest die simple really