Why Ford should Build a New Boss 351

Moby Vic · 10-04-2013, 12:04 AM

I had this same idea:
http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2013/0...tang-boss-351/

Excerpt:

Quote:

5. Heritage.
The S197 platform is retro by nature, and Ford loves calling on the Mustang’s storied past. This was never more true with the Boss 302. Ford repeated history in more ways than one, building the Boss 302 for only two years and following the styling cues of both the 1969 and 1970 models. Just like decades ago, Ford built a racing version (two actually) and won a championship. And what did Ford do the following year back in 1971? They built a Boss 351. Yes, the car isn’t as famous, beautiful or as desirable as the Boss 302, but that doesn’t necessarily matter. If Ford wanted to truly follow the Mustangs history and continue the Boss name, they could have gone to the 351 and done a single year production run just like they did in 1971.
4. A ready-to-go powertrain.
Assuming Ford did want to build a Mustang Boss 351, then what engine would they use? The answer is relatively simple. The current Shelby GT500′s 5.8-liter V8 measures out at 354.6 cubic inches of displacement. To us, that’s close enough, and we’re sure Ford could get the V8 down to 351cid if they wanted to. Converted to a high-revving naturally aspirated setup, the engine could easily produce north of 500 horsepower and 450 lb-ft torque.

FPV GTHO · 10-04-2013, 12:55 PM

I'd be curious if a 5.8 NA was any more effective than the current 5L NA though. More torque, quite likely, but im not sure if its power delivery and track manners would be better.

Bent8 · 10-04-2013, 02:49 PM

I'm sure a BOSS 351 GT would be a huge hit!

If the current 5.0 n/a motor makes 420hp in the Mustang GT, the 5.8 would be making over 475hp with a 7000rpm redline.

And imagine the noise it would make!

FPV GTHO · 10-04-2013, 03:21 PM

It's not that simple though. The 5.8 is based on the 5.4, effectively making it a first generation modular. The 5.0 is next gen, has VCT available on all 4 cams and other goodies.

Bossxr8 · 10-04-2013, 04:48 PM

I wish they would just do us all a favour and start making a 5.8 Coyote, to sell alongside the 5.0.

tweeked · 10-04-2013, 05:05 PM

Do it !!!!

FPV GTHO · 10-04-2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I wish they would just do us all a favour and start making a 5.8 Coyote, to sell alongside the 5.0.

Probably too much overlap with 6.2 BOSS.

A different time maybe they would've done a tall deck Coyote instead of BOSS, but I suspect its roots from the Hurricane project date earlier than Coyote and Ford all but admitted they felt they were vulnerable to GM and Chrysler based on capacity of their F series V8's.

Nikked · 10-04-2013, 05:44 PM

Wait, Ford should put effort and money into removing the supercharger a superseded engine (designed in its form to be blown anyway), in a soon to be superseded model...just to have a badge name?

I'd rather see ford put their effort into the 50th anniversary mustangs, and some exotic killing 2015 mustangs!

Crazy Dazz · 10-04-2013, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Wait, Ford should put effort and money into removing the supercharger a superseded engine (designed in its form to be blown anyway), in a soon to be superseded model...just to have a badge name?

I'd rather see ford put their effort into the 50th anniversary mustangs, and some exotic killing 2015 mustangs!

maybe they could destroke the 4.0l to 3.5l
and fit ecoboost

paulb351 · 11-04-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

It's not that simple though. The 5.8 is based on the 5.4, effectively making it a first generation modular. The 5.0 is next gen, has VCT available on all 4 cams and other goodies.

I thought falcon gt with 5.0 didn't have all cams managed with VCT (ie one set only) as the PCM in the falcon didn't have the capacity and hence the Miami starting lower power output than coyote before the supercharger.

FPV GTHO · 11-04-2013, 12:51 PM

That's correct but that's in Falcon. Mustang has a different ECU and both 3.7 V6 and 5.0 V8 have VCT phasers on all cams. 5.4 only ever has VCT available in the 3V models.

chevypower · 11-04-2013, 01:36 PM

I was just thinking the other day it would be cool if Ford did a 429 to go up against the Camaro 427. Dodge should up the SRT8 Challenger to a 426 Hemi. Then it would be just like the good old days!
Seriously though, I am hoping the next gen Mustang will offer a 5.0 V8 EcoBoost and 3.5 V6 EcoBoost in addition to the 4cyl EcoBoost. That would put Ford in the same league as Mercedes.

FPV GTHO · 11-04-2013, 02:40 PM

They've got the 777 motor they could dust off, but being a BOSS motor, which is larger and heavier than 5.4/5.8, it would be a bit big block vs small block.

Falco GT51 · 11-04-2013, 08:15 PM

How hard would it be to for Ford to change the 5l Coyote to a 5.8? Is is as easy as changing the crank and rods?

FPV GTHO · 11-04-2013, 08:54 PM

I think the largest capacity aftermarket kits are only 5.3l so they would need to increase the deck height to where the 5.4 was to get more stroke.

Moby Vic · 12-04-2013, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falco GT51

How hard would it be to for Ford to change the 5l Coyote to a 5.8? Is is as easy as changing the crank and rods?

From what I've read about the Coyote, there's no room for increasing displacement either through boring or stroking. The piston skirts are already scalloped to clear crankshaft weights.

But Saleen seems to have found a way to increase displacement (this was announced months ago):
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...NEWS/121209896

Excerpt:

Quote:

So what's new? First up is a Saleen 351 Mustang, which was announced at the LA auto show last week. While Saleen and various entities—authorized and not—have produced the 302 Mustang for many years, this is the first time in 13 years that a 351 will come out with one of those big SALEEN windshield header stickers on it. The Mustang maker promises 700 hp and 655 lb-ft of torque from the 351-cubic-inch V8, which sounds entirely doable when it's paired with the Saleen 296 supercharger system.
“Everything about this project has been mindful of the goal to create the most potent Mustang on the market”, said Al Wagner, vp of engineering. “I think we have certainly pushed the bar in the production Mustang segment with our 351 offering. Once the project came together I couldn't help but think; if the 302 Mustang is using a Coyote engine, the 351 is definitely the gray wolf of the class.”
The S351 will also use a Saleen clutch in the Mustang's six-speed manual, a 3.73:1 final drive, Saleen wheels, tires, 15-inch brakes and a Saleen S4 suspension. Look for S351 Mustangs in January.

FGII-XR6 · 12-04-2013, 06:53 AM

the Coyote has been proven in the police special to be capable of 406 RWKW with nothing more than an exhaust and a tune that's around 500 FWKW . so with just a tune a GT 351 (KW) is quite achievable. why would any sane person suggest that a struggling ford Australia invest many millions of dollars in developing another performance engine when we have a massively under tuned one already with plenty of potential.
It seems to me some people can never be satisfied, we have available a package that makes the red side look quite sad with plenty of scope to be modified to develop more power than most of you can handle . I just don't get it

2011G6E · 12-04-2013, 07:27 AM

I'm sure the ten or so specials they would sell a year would more than make up for the development dollars...

Times are moving on...I love V8's...I've got one in our old Kingswood ute...but the future isn't bigger and bigger V8's. The development dollars could be far better spent on other areas like handling, turbo sixes (and, *gasp*, fours), and better chassis dynamics to deal with a real world of increasingly strict and comprehensive restrictions, where a car with a sweet chassis and good handling will sell like hot cakes...not necessarily the most powerful car or one with the biggest cylinder count, but the one that's fun to drive within the limits that were are being hammered with everywhere.

Now taking votes for least favourite comment in history...

FPV GTHO · 12-04-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the Coyote has been proven in the police special to be capable of 406 RWKW with nothing more than an exhaust and a tune that's around 500 FWKW . so with just a tune a GT 351 (KW) is quite achievable. why would any sane person suggest that a struggling ford Australia invest many millions of dollars in developing another performance engine when we have a massively under tuned one already with plenty of potential.
It seems to me some people can never be satisfied, we have available a package that makes the red side look quite sad with plenty of scope to be modified to develop more power than most of you can handle . I just don't get it

Re-read EVERYTHING that has been posted so far, this has nothing to do with Falcon.