Hooning Fact Sheet from QUT Brings Car Club Cruising into Disrepute

[ZC-Cruiser]

There is a new Hooning Fact Sheet out (linked to below) that mentions Cruising in a very discriminatory way.
Hooning Fact Sheet

I have drafted a letter to the authors regarding this.

I encourage all interested people to send a copy of this letter to the Fact Sheet Authors at:
marketing.carrsq@qut.edu.au

To Whom it may concern.

I have recently been made aware of fact sheet on Hooning produced by your office.

While this document does contain a lot of statistics that I do not have the resources to verify, there is one paragraph that caught my attention as not belonging in a document purporting to be a "Fact Sheet".

I Quote from your "Fact Sheet":

“Cruising” - where groups of vehicles slowly drive around an area to exhibit their vehicles is a behaviour that can be associated with hooning. While cruising, in and of itself, is not a hooning behaviour per se, it is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in the hooning behaviours described. However, many drivers who engage in cruising behaviour do not engage in the hooning behaviours listed at left.

This paragraph serves no purpose other than to attempt to drag into disrepute all owners of vehicles who enjoy cruising in the company of like minded people.

I note that in stark contrast to the rest of your document, you have not included any statistics regarding the proportion of drivers who participate in cruising and also engage in hooning behaviours.

To demonstrate how flawed the inclusion of this paragraph in your "Fact Sheet" is, I have provided 3 examples below where I have simply substituted another common activity undertaken on our roads for the word "Cruising".

“Driving to work” - where groups of vehicles slowly drive around an area to get to work is a behaviour that can be associated with hooning. While driving to work, in and of itself, is not a hooning behaviour per se, it is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in the hooning behaviours described. However, many drivers who engage in driving to work behaviour do not engage in the hooning behaviours listed at left.


“Going to the shops” - where groups of vehicles slowly drive around an area to obtain food and other goods is a behaviour that can be associated with hooning. While going to the shops, in and of itself, is not a hooning behaviour per se, it is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in the hooning behaviours described. However, many drivers who engage in going to the shops behaviour do not engage in the hooning behaviours listed at left.


“Going to visit Grandparents” - where groups of vehicles slowly drive around an area to visit their Grandparents is a behaviour that can be associated with hooning. While going to visit Grandparents, in and of itself, is not a hooning behaviour per se, it is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in the hooning behaviours described. However, many drivers who engage in going to visit Grandparents behaviour do not engage in the hooning behaviours listed at left.

As you can see, your logic fits these activities perfectly and will also fit almost every other activity undertaken by road users.

By singling out "Cruising" with no mention of the myriad of other driving activities "sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in the hooning behaviours described", you are discriminating against the enormous section of the population who are members of Automobile Clubs and enjoy participating in cruises organised by those clubs.

The inclusion of this paragraph in this document will have the effect of bringing into disrepute the entire Automobile Club community, rather than focusing attention on the tiny portion of that community who engage in hooning behaviours.

I respectfully request that you remove the paragraph quoted above from your document.

I also request that you remove the word "cruising" from the following paragraph on page 3 of your "Fact Sheet":
Qualitative exploratory study to examine the experiences and thoughts of local car enthusiasts who are typically associated with street racing, hooning or cruising activities.

Kind Regards,

[MAD]

Of all the descriptions, only one is 'hooning', and that is illegal street racing.
NONE of the others mention performing these acts on the street, therefore they are not anti-social, rather they are sanctioned sports/competitions.

[FPV GTHO]

I think you've missed the point they're trying to get at. To me it clearly says they don't consider cruising itself a hooning behaviour, and with a little imagination I think I know what they're on a out. They're trying to include the behaviour where Mr X drives at half the speed limit down the Main Street slow enough so that everyone can look at him in his likely modified car.

[XRtowcar]

So you can drive to be quickand wreckless and be a hoon, or drive slowly at a safe speed without breaking any road laws and still be a hoon.
Wait till my grandma finds out she's a hoon too.

[MAD]

Super hoons...
http://www.motorclassica.com.au/general-information/

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by MAD

Of all the descriptions, only one is 'hooning', and that is illegal street racing.
NONE of the others mention performing these acts on the street, therefore they are not anti-social, rather they are sanctioned sports/competitions.

ah... me thinks your wrong...

“burn outs” - when the rear tyres of
a vehicle are spun until they heat
and smoke;
- “donuts” - when the driver turns the
front tyres until the steering is fully
locked during a burn out, so that the
car rotates and a circular (donut)
pattern of tread marks remains on
the road surface;
- “drifting” - when a vehicle slides
sideways through a turn taken at
high speed;
- unnecessary speed or acceleration;
and
- “speed trials” - when the
acceleration and top-speed
capability of a vehicle and/or the
skill of its driver are tested, usually
on a straight road of a set distance,
sometimes to establish or break
records.

These are all illegal on the road....

I do have issue with the "slow cruising" which isnt hooning, but is hooning...

I was on a sanctioned cruise (123 cars) on Sunday with 4 police vehicles in tow.
Due to the heavy traffic we all went slow along the strand in our modified cars.... dear oh dear (and the cops were good, all went well)

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ZC-Cruiser

There is a new Hooning Fact Sheet out (linked to below) that mentions Cruising in a very discriminatory way.
Hooning Fact Sheet

I have drafted a letter to the authors regarding this.

I encourage all interested people to send a copy of this letter to the Fact Sheet Authors at:
marketing.carrsq@qut.edu.au

Well what do you expect from a goup of car hating academic nutters.

How about a fact sheet on universities:

Facts:
1) Illegal drug use is rife within tertiary education.
2) Extreme anti government and anti society groups who engage in protests some involving damage to public and private property are very common in tertiary education institutions.
3) Unroadworthy and dangerous motor vehicles are very common in universities.

So for a start we have drug using terrorist mentality road hazzards telling us how we should live our lives.

I wonder if they would dispute my facts.....

[MAD]

Jim, where do they mention any of those activities being performed on the street?

When has anyone set up sophisticated timing devices to 'break records' for illegal street based time trials?

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well what do you expect from a goup of car hating academic nutters.

What I expect is that when they produce a report on a subject, that they stick to the relevant facts and not lump a large group of law-abiding citizens in with the law-breaking minority that this report is aimed at defining and measuring.

Be aware that reports such as this will be used by the media, and future Law-Makers.

Unless you are happy for Cruising to be included in future Anti-Hooning Legislation, I would ask for support in getting the authors of this report to remove that section from it.

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by MAD

Jim, where do they mention any of those activities being performed on the street?

When has anyone set up sophisticated timing devices to 'break records' for illegal street based time trials?

Through the 1960s and early 1970s in Cairns if the stories are to be believed - on the concrete section of Aumuller St...

[xisled]

I though the report was good. If you read through it actually states most cars are not modified and are common cars such as a ford or Holden.

It also makes the difference between an enthusiast and a hoon.

It does not say cruising is a hoon act, but it is associated with hooning. This is correct, look at Cruise for Charity in Vic last few years it has turned into a burnout fest at the end.

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by xisled

I though the report was good. If you read through it actually states most cars are not modified and are common cars such as a ford or Holden.

It also makes the difference between an enthusiast and a hoon.

It does not say cruising is a hoon act, but it is associated with hooning. This is correct, look at Cruise for Charity in Vic last few years it has turned into a burnout fest at the end.

My point is that the inclusion of the paragraph on Cruising brings unnecessary negative attention to an activity that is regularly undertaken in a responsible and legal manner by large numbers of car enthusiasts.

It's inclusion in a document such as this could result in future legislation containing sanctions against cruising.

The fact that no statistics are given as to the proportion of hooning offenders who were participating in a cruise when they committed the offence is suspicious.

The way that the proportions of hooning cruisers are referred to in vague terms is also suspicious:

it is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in the hooning behaviours

many drivers who engage in cruising behaviour do not engage in the hooning behaviours

This paragraph has clearly been included, without any research being done on the topic, with the intent of including cruising under the umbrella of "hooning".

[XBROO]

We are all hoons, because we don't just think of cars as a form of transport. So just don't do the wrong thing and they can label us as they want. There's no use upsetting ourselves by trying to justify not being a hoon. As you a fighting a loosing battle, don't forget if you don't break the law, you have nothing to worry about.

[lilmattie]

I drink ..

It is a behaviour sometimes engaged in by those drivers who engage in drink driving..

I don't actually but the point is there.

Fools.

[Kable72]

You know, I'm getting sick of hearing the "If you don't break the law, you got nothing to worry about".

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by Kable72

You know, I'm getting sick of hearing the "If you don't break the law, you got nothing to worry about".

Well mate better get used to it, because that's the only thing that's going to protect you from hoon laws. And yes it gets said alot, but that's because it's the truth. Look I love taking of from a set of light fast or putting the foot down when ever possible. But the laws have changed and so do I, otherwise it could be my XBGT coupe getting crushed. We all have to face facts, these laws are here to stay.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Well mate better get used to it, because that's the only thing that's going to protect you from hoon laws. And yes it gets said alot, but that's because it's the truth. Look I love taking of from a set of light fast or putting the foot down when ever possible. But the laws have changed and so do I, otherwise it could be my XBGT coupe getting crushed. We all have to face facts, these laws are here to stay.

Seriously?

I mean do you actually believe that not breaking the law will protect you from our paranoid overly litigious public vegetables?

These laws are here to stay? Sort of like a 1000 year reich really........

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by XBROO

We are all hoons, because we don't just think of cars as a form of transport. So just don't do the wrong thing and they can label us as they want. There's no use upsetting ourselves by trying to justify not being a hoon. As you a fighting a loosing battle, don't forget if you don't break the law, you have nothing to worry about.

OK, lets be clear here.

I am simply pointing out that in this report on hooning, there is one paragraph that has clearly not been subjected to the same rigor as the rest of the document.

I am not trying to fight a battle against hoon laws, I am trying to ensure that non-hoon behaviour (in this case Cruising) is not included in future Anti-Hooning Legislation because we couldn't be bothered to point out to these researchers that we have spotted this suspicious, statistic-free reference to cruising in a report on hooning and would like it removed.

Anthony Standfield, President at Queensland Torana Car Club, has already managed to get that paragraph changed to what it is now by making representation to the researchers.

I applaud Anthony for achieving this and would now like to take it one step further and have the reference to cruising removed altogether.

I am proposing that anyone who is interested in ensuring that cruising is not defined as hooning in the future should send a copy of the letter above to the email address of the researchers (also above).

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by flappist

Seriously?

I mean do you actually believe that not breaking the law will protect you from our paranoid overly litigious public vegetables?

These laws are here to stay? Sort of like a 1000 year reich really........

Yes seriously, if you've done nothing wrong then you can't get done, even by hear say. Like the worlds going to end it's all up in the air. I've been driving for over 20 years, I've been convicted of street racing twice. But all I got was a 6 months suppension. So I'm no angel but I know when the law is being rediculious. And these new hoon laws are over the top, but because of the few idiots that don't know a good time or place to play up, then we're all stuck with the laws. And they have been around a few years now and seem to be getting stricter.

[AWD Chaser]

lol

[karj]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well what do you expect from a goup of car hating academic nutters.

How about a fact sheet on universities:

Facts:
1) Illegal drug use is rife within tertiary education.
2) Extreme anti government and anti society groups who engage in protests some involving damage to public and private property are very common in tertiary education institutions.
3) Unroadworthy and dangerous motor vehicles are very common in universities.

So for a start we have drug using terrorist mentality road hazzards telling us how we should live our lives.

I wonder if they would dispute my facts.....

I think you may need to have a rethink about classifying uni students as academics. Most uni students are not "academics."

There are few who choose the academic path because it is so gruelling for little short-term reward. It involves at minimum a 4 to 5 year Honours degree, then a 4 year PhD, and then post-doctoral studies. It is difficult because during a Bachelor w/ Honours degree you usually only have the money you get from parents, centrelink or part-time job. It's very hard to work a part time job when striving for 1st class honours which is necessary to qualify for a PhD scholarship. PhD scholarships are just over $20,000 a year for 3.5 years max (FYI PhD's are the equivalent of a full time job, often more because of weekend work). You only start earning decent money when you start post-docing (which is very competitive) and continued success and opportunity to 'climb the ladder' is largely dependent on how many papers you can get published.

This means that you end up about 26-27 with no money or assets to your name, whilst you've watched all your friends go travelling, have kids and buy a house. The point I'm making is that an academic is about as far as you can get from the binge drinking 'happy with a pass' yobs who live in the unibar or those who use their short time at university to launch their 'political' careers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by karj

I think you may need to have a rethink about classifying uni students as academics. Most uni students are not "academics."

There are few who choose the academic path because it is so gruelling for little short-term reward. It involves at minimum a 4 to 5 year Honours degree, then a 4 year PhD, and then post-doctoral studies. It is difficult because during a Bachelor w/ Honours degree you usually only have the money you get from parents, centrelink or part-time job. It's very hard to work a part time job when striving for 1st class honours which is necessary to qualify for a PhD scholarship. PhD scholarships are just over $20,000 a year for 3.5 years max (FYI PhD's are the equivalent of a full time job, often more because of weekend work). You only start earning decent money when you start post-docing (which is very competitive) and continued success and opportunity to 'climb the ladder' is largely dependent on how many papers you can get published.

This means that you end up about 26-27 with no money or assets to your name, whilst you've watched all your friends go travelling, have kids and buy a house. The point I'm making is that an academic is about as far as you can get from the binge drinking 'happy with a pass' yobs who live in the unibar or those who use their short time at university to launch their 'political' careers.

Yes, some students eventually leave the school environment and discover often to their horror that the real world is not anything like the theories and practices they were taught.

Other students never leave school and continue to develop and/or teach theories and practices based on what they were taught earlier. These are called academics........

[Kable72]

Originally Posted by karj

I think you may need to have a rethink about classifying uni students as academics. Most uni students are not "academics."

There are few who choose the academic path because it is so gruelling for little short-term reward. It involves at minimum a 4 to 5 year Honours degree, then a 4 year PhD, and then post-doctoral studies. It is difficult because during a Bachelor w/ Honours degree you usually only have the money you get from parents, centrelink or part-time job. It's very hard to work a part time job when striving for 1st class honours which is necessary to qualify for a PhD scholarship. PhD scholarships are just over $20,000 a year for 3.5 years max (FYI PhD's are the equivalent of a full time job, often more because of weekend work). You only start earning decent money when you start post-docing (which is very competitive) and continued success and opportunity to 'climb the ladder' is largely dependent on how many papers you can get published.

This means that you end up about 26-27 with no money or assets to your name, whilst you've watched all your friends go travelling, have kids and buy a house. The point I'm making is that an academic is about as far as you can get from the binge drinking 'happy with a pass' yobs who live in the unibar or those who use their short time at university to launch their 'political' careers.

I don't think you got the point behind his post...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Kable72

I don't think you got the point behind his post...

Well it was a practical example of real world views not a theoretical paper based on selected statitistics and peer reviewed agenda.

[karj]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes, some students eventually leave the school environment and discover often to their horror that the real world is not anything like the theories and practices they were taught.

Other students never leave school and continue to develop and/or teach theories and practices based on what they were taught earlier. These are called academics........

Are you serious? Academics are primarily involved in research, and an academics "worth" is usually defined by the amount of papers they get published as a result of their research. Teaching is often a small part of academic life.

[flappist]

Oh so massively obtuse generalisations with skewed agenda, selected statistics and an almost complete disregard for reality when presented as FACT by someone purporting to be an expert even though they are just making it up as they go along may draw an adverse reaction from people who actually understand a subject based of first hand experience?

Now do you get the point I was making?

[ZC-Cruiser]

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh so massively obtuse generalisations with skewed agenda, selected statistics and an almost complete disregard for reality when presented as FACT by someone purporting to be an expert even though they are just making it up as they go along may draw an adverse reaction from people who actually understand a subject based of first hand experience?

This ^^ is precisely why I am asking everyone to lobby this particular group of academics to modify this particular publication - we have the first hand experience of cruising and do not want it lumped in with hooning...

[karj]

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh so massively obtuse generalisations with skewed agenda, selected statistics and an almost complete disregard for reality when presented as FACT by someone proporting to be an expert may draw an adverse reaction from people who actually understand a subject based of first hand experience?

Now do you get the point I was making?

Oh, I see. So you weren't serious... you were making a silly generalisation in response to a silly generalisation to illustrate your point? Bit thick of me not to pick up on that

My experience is with academics involved in scientific research, not social research. Social research tends to be much more prone to the issues you've mentioned above.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Kable72

You know, I'm getting sick of hearing the "If you don't break the law, you got nothing to worry about".

One of my favorite Terry Pratchett quotes..
"The Axiom 'an honest man has nothing to fear from Police' is currently under review by the Axiom review board"

Originally Posted by XBROO

Yes seriously, if you've done nothing wrong then you can't get done,

....

Oh stoppit, it hurts...

[2011G6E]

"Unnecessary speed or acceleration"

If that isn't the description of an action that would be the widest, most broadly interpreted thing ever. That truly does leave it up to the officer in charge to decide if what you were doing wasn't simply "speeding", but was unnecessary.

In fact, not closely that it doesn't say excessive or beyond the speed limit "speed"...they could interpret that as being something like "unnecessary for the conditions".
My daughter got warned for overtaking a slow caravan in the rain on a long straight stretch of highway with good visibility. A police car coming the other way flashed the lights and did a u-turn. She pulled over, and started wondering if she had been speeding, but instead the cop merely gave her a warning and a short talk about how bad it was to be driving quickly in the rain, especially overtaking, and that even the legal limit may be too much in some circumstances. He considered that what she was doing was, in a word, "unnecessary"...
I know other people that have had similar, and also ex-coppers I work with confirm that if they think you are driving "too fast for the conditions" you don't even have to be speeding...as long as it's considered "dangerous" at the time.

Have a little think about your daily drive...even without speeding, is what you are doing "unnecessary" for the conditions...?