Overtaking, Just how hard it is to do it Safely and Legally!

[tweeked]

Ok, so I had a long drive last weekend and overtook a car at one stage, and found myself SPEEDING ! I was thinking about this devil “speeding” and I did some figures in my head to try to work out exactly what is dangerous. Bear with me, this all comes together at the end.

Is overtaking necessary? Or should we just be patient and never overtake? If we did this you would naturally end up with long lines of cars running nose to tail behind a 97kph guy, a roo out in front of the first car and you could have a pileup, where a single car can take more evasive action. Add the frustration that human nature and impatience brings and I believe that keeping traffic spread out leads to safer overall travel. So scratch the idea that we ban overtaking, but how do we overtake safely?

Is the wrong side of the road safer than the correct side? We can safely say not!

So for safe country motoring, we need to overtake, not speed, but get back on to the correct side of the road as quickly as possible. Our beloved authorities generally give us a “safe” distance between vehicles as 2 seconds at the speed you are travelling, so we need to maintain this gap. So I now present two scenarios, both of which come about as we approach a car travelling at 97kph in a 100 zone!!

With our vehicle travelling at 100kph, we need to be 55 metres behind the car in front to be two seconds behind and safe. The road is clear (as far as we can see), so we commence to overtake by moving to the other side of the road, careful not to exceed 100kph. We need to pass the car in front and clear him by 55 metres to maintain safe distance, before returning to our side of the road, a total distance of 115 metres including the car. The differential in speed is 3kph, so it takes about 2 minutes and 18 seconds to cover the distance. In that time we have covered 3.8 kilometres on the worng side of the road. If there was a car coming from the other direction, we would need to be able to see them well over 7.5 kilometres distant when there approaching speed is added. I hope this was on the Nullabor!
OR
You break the law like I did. By speeding up to 120 kph before starting the overtake the differential is 23kph. The 115 metres can be covered in 18 seconds, taking 600 metres to complete the overtake, requiring 1100 metres available to oncoming traffic travelling at 100kph towards us.

It is laughable that one is considered safe and legal but in reality is seriously dangerous, and one is a high level speeding offence, although is much safer . There should be a 120kph limit for while overtaking.

Look, it was a long drive OK!

[mik]

mate i totally agree, it`s a bad rule imo, every second you are on the wrong side of the road there is a bigger risk, it is also my practice to boogey a little bit to get on the right side of the road, and i`d rather pay a fine up the road when the constable pulls me up than have a head on , but if there`s adequate overtaking lanes well there should be no need to crank it up, sadly not the case on some roads.

[Kryton]

Ill overtake any vehicle that isnt doing the same speed as myself.
Id rather be the font car and not have to keep worrying about what everyone else in front of me is doing - slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, looking at the phone etc etc.
Its safer to not be stuck behind slow drivers driving "safely".

[FordACE]

Yeah i've thought about this numerous times. I don't see why they can't allow 20% variation on the speed limit when overtaking. Long trips up to NQ though I've overtaken two or three semis backed up and gone well above that, say 80%. Easy in the Turbo :P

[pottery beige]

next time you have to overtake one of these 15 - 20kmh under the limit right hand lane road block persons..

look over at them.. have a look at them..

you will see the most vacant, lifeless, mouthbreathing look of stupid expression on their bloated heads..

makes me lol..

[new2ford]

I never, ever look at the speedo when overtaking on a single lane road. It's the most dangerous thing you can do. Your concentration needs to be 100% on the task and the environment and getting back over as quickly as possible. The fact that people get booked for it indicates that the authorities are not really interested in road safety. You almost wonder if they actually want people to get killed in head-on collisions to "prove" their speed kills propaganda. The whole thing is ugly.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It is laughable that one is considered safe and legal but in reality is seriously dangerous, and one is a high level speeding offence, although is much safer . There should be a 120kph limit for while overtaking.

Look, it was a long drive OK!

While i agree with what your saying... you cant make a law that is going to be full of flaws and be ambiguous...

When does the over taking manouver commence? when does it end?
What is the leeway given for you to slow down back to 100kmh?
You cant make a rule saying its ok to speed past the limit for an unspecified period of time and distance.
What is considered a safe distance past the vehicle your overtaking?
how will this distance be determined while driving?
What if you had a number of cars with 200m gaps and you just weaved in and out of them while going 120kmh?

If however we had however on a dual carriage highway (single lane either way) more over taking lanes whereby the speed limit in THAT lane was say 120, you could define the limit.

Another idea i had been thinking about would be to have 3 lanes as much as possible. The middle lane would be used as the overtaking lane in both directions (make the middle lane 120). You would have less chance of hitting oncoming cars while overtaking unless some idiot pulls out to over take head on... but there would be little to no traffic in the middle.

[prydey]

somehow, truck drivers manage...

[SteveJH]

When its dangerous is when its a single lane road, and they see you beside them overtaking and decide to speed up from going 20km/h below the speed limit to going the speed limit or above.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

While i agree with what your saying... you cant make a law that is going to be full of flaws and be ambiguous...

When does the over taking manouver commence? when does it end?
What is the leeway given for you to slow down back to 100kmh?
You cant make a rule saying its ok to speed past the limit for an unspecified period of time and distance.
What is considered a safe distance past the vehicle your overtaking?
how will this distance be determined while driving?
What if you had a number of cars with 200m gaps and you just weaved in and out of them while going 120kmh?

If however we had however on a dual carriage highway (single lane either way) more over taking lanes whereby the speed limit in THAT lane was say 120, you could define the limit.

Another idea i had been thinking about would be to have 3 lanes as much as possible. The middle lane would be used as the overtaking lane in both directions (make the middle lane 120). You would have less chance of hitting oncoming cars while overtaking unless some idiot pulls out to over take head on... but there would be little to no traffic in the middle.

Good points there. Especially the weaving for 200m one.

Perhaps the law can be you must return to the speed limit after overtaking a maximum of 2 vehicles in each excursion to the other side of the road? What I would be happy with is some well executed police discretion when dealing with the law.

[Sprint]

it used to be that legally your allowed to speed for overtaking purposes, you had 400 meters to do this.

[El Venom]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

When its dangerous is when its a single lane road, and they see you beside them overtaking and decide to speed up from going 20km/h below the speed limit to going the speed limit or above.

I see that all the time where I am or they slam on the brakes just as your changing lanes. I hate over taking on the wrong side of the but its a daily exercise where I live.

Most of the time though passing has to be done way above the posted limit manily due to the front vehicle braking hard to take a corner 30-40km/h slower then the posted limit and then planting there foot back to the speed limit.

[OzJavelin]

Out where I live in regional Vic, the Govt are "helping" with this dilemma; they are creating unbroken and double white lines anywhere that you can't see more than about 10km in a straight line ...

[LG17]

I'm in FNQ so there's lots of highway driving. I almost always would exceed the speed limit, and by a fair bit I reckon, when overtaking as it is the lesser of two evils. We have very little in the way of passing lanes and no dual carriage highways so 99.99% of passing has to be done on the old, ricketty single lane stuff.
I will speed every time with absolutely no qualms at all - it's much safer!

[EDManual]

I find its better/quicker/safer to come up to the car you want to pass at a speed faster than them rather than pull out then accelerate. You are on the other side of the road for less time then. Even if you only do 10 or 20 over, it helps a bit. That way you may only need to do 120 in a 100 zone rather than pull out and floor it to 130 and lose your licence. Thats what I try to do if worried about cops coming round the bend.

[sprint347dave]

How much sooner will you arrive at where your going by over taking 1 or 2 cars ???? is it really worth the effort ??...whats the old saying,,Dont Die for DEADLINE,,,just chill enjoy another song in the extra time it takes you to get there

[|Nate]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

How much sooner will you arrive at where your going by over taking 1 or 2 cars ???? is it really worth the effort ??...whats the old saying,,Dont Die for DEADLINE,,,just chill enjoy another song in the extra time it takes you to get there

Depending on the road, a hell of a lot sooner.

Today for example, going to work, I missed the only chance I had at overtaking this car before the twisties because I thought "Oh they're going around 96-98, they should maintain good speed when we drop to 80"

Well was I wrong, a road that usually takes me 5-10 minutes to complete, took 20-25 minutes as this person would drop down to 50 for soft bends and 40 for slightly sharper bends, but speed back up on the short straights, only to drop down again -_-

It's pretty hard to chill when the person in front has no idea what they're doing.

[leighm]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

How much sooner will you arrive at where your going by over taking 1 or 2 cars ???? is it really worth the effort ??...whats the old saying,,Dont Die for DEADLINE,,,just chill enjoy another song in the extra time it takes you to get there

Because what happens you end up with a convoy of banked up cars. The slow one at the front is usually the type that sits anywhere between 80-100 (then they speed up to 110 when they hit the overtaking double lane road). When the person in front slows to 80, the people further back slow to 60 as they have to slow more than the car in front to maintain a safe distance between cars.

If I can sit on 100 with my cruise on that's what I want to do. I don't want to have to constantly check my speed because the moron in front can't maintain their speed.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

How much sooner will you arrive at where your going by over taking 1 or 2 cars ???? is it really worth the effort ??...whats the old saying,,Dont Die for DEADLINE,,,just chill enjoy another song in the extra time it takes you to get there

Huh?

I can guarantee you if I sat on the speed limits all the way from here to Coffs Harbour it would take an extra hour. By overtaking and keeping concentration I still get there and back in a decent time (4 and a half hours).

Also, try doing it slower with a two year old in the back, you want ultimate distraction, there it is.

[blk6t]

I agree, just to note that I lost my license for 12 months for overtaking, my speed rapidly increased only for a couple of seconds, but it was enough for me to stand in front of a judge.....deemed "dangerous driving"

I would prefer people took my past experience as a deterrence to overtaking and using the opportunity to have a poke of the throttle.

Realistically there is really no way to overtake safely and legally unless there is a very long stretch of road or the slower driver is driving really slow.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

How much sooner will you arrive at where your going by over taking 1 or 2 cars ???? is it really worth the effort ??...whats the old saying,,Dont Die for DEADLINE,,,just chill enjoy another song in the extra time it takes you to get there

What large city do you live and work in?

If you did long distance driving on country roads you will know it can make a massive difference in time. More then a song length, more like enjoy another album.

What is worse is people who cannot keep a constant speed.
Yesterday we were following some guy in a Falcon who was ranging from 105 to 70 in a 100 zone.
Problem was he wasn't slowing down for corners, he was just randomly slowing down and speeding up for no apparent reason.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by blk6t

I agree, just to note that I lost my license for 12 months for overtaking, my speed rapidly increased only for a couple of seconds, but it was enough for me to stand in front of a judge.....deemed "dangerous driving".

OUCH!

So then i am lucky, when i use to overtake after sitting back, i use to flick my XH2 Ute Tickford LPG over to ULP [instant extra grunt] and punch it out to 160km/h time after time, and also to put lots of distance between me and the chasing pack.

Lucky no police around, did it every single time.

I HATE CARAVANERS they are the worst of the worst

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

How much sooner will you arrive at where your going by over taking 1 or 2 cars ???? is it really worth the effort ??...whats the old saying,,Dont Die for DEADLINE,,,just chill enjoy another song in the extra time it takes you to get there

I will go back to numbers again. If one car is doing 97, and he travels up a country highway for an hour, every car for up to 3 km behind him doing the speed limit will now be bunched up his back side. Assume there is only 1 car every 300 metres, that is 10 cars. I do not want to be the 5th car stuck in the middle. I will not be enjoying a song much not having a clear view of the road or the ability to take the necessary action if wildlife jumps out without being concerned about the 4-5 cars travelling behind me - or having to watch out for the inevitable person who tries to overtake all cars only having to push back into the line when they run out of time as a car approaches from the other direction.

I am not going to "Die for a deadline" just because I hit 120 overtaking a car with ample room to complete the task. This is the mentality that actually makes roads MORE dangerous. I believe that all road users exercise a hightened sense of awareness for the 20 seconds they perform an overtake than the 1-2 hours of mindnumbing cruising at 100.

This is the crux of the "speed kills" versus the "Stupidity and innattention kills" discussion. The "speed kills" crowd HAVE to think through the results of their argument. I cannot see how they can stick with it if safety is their priority.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Ben73

What large city do you live and work in?

If you did long distance driving on country roads you will know it can make a massive difference in time. More then a song length, more like enjoy another album.

+1

Top of the West Gate Bridge to bottom of the hill in Adelaide [720km], 6.35mins, i was pretty stuffed, but it was a bloody quick trip dont think i have got it in me to do it again that quick,,,,,,was fun at the time

Was TOTALLY safe for me and other road users, no risks taken

Thanks to the ute having dual fuel no stops, know where i could floor it, where to overtake, short cuts, traffic lights, dual lanes, i even know where the bumps in the road are etc etc

I was at one with the vehicle, in the Senna zone!

[mwhit43]

Im a learner driver, and i was driving on the moonie highway last weekend and i was going 90kmph because there were roadworks for like 20km but this utensils over took me on a horrible conditiond road and after he over took us he didnt slow down he was gone in like 5 mins >:( i had a good trip though :p

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Ben73

What is worse is people who cannot keep a constant speed.
Yesterday we were following some guy in a Falcon who was ranging from 105 to 70 in a 100 zone.
Problem was he wasn't slowing down for corners, he was just randomly slowing down and speeding up for no apparent reason.

This is what annoys me the most
Stick to the limit,but i spose it is a maximum speed limit as many could argue ....
Another thing that annoys me, people who sit under the limit,brake along straights when cars are on comin, and when theres no on coming go faster,or when you go to overtake, the put the foot down
But i have cars that go from 100 to long lost of licence very quickly that annoys most little people in their little cars
I have no issue being overtaken , but when its done in a dangerous situation, when theres on comin traffic,double white lines, blind corners i draw the line

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

This is what annoys me the most
Stick to the limit,but i spose it is a maximum speed limit as many could argue ....
Another thing that annoys me, people who sit under the limit,brake along straights when cars are on comin, and when theres no on coming go faster,or when you go to overtake, the put the foot down
But i have cars that go from 100 to long lost of licence very quickly that annoys most little people in their little cars
I have no issue being overtaken , but when its done in a dangerous situation, when theres on comin traffic,double white lines, blind corners i draw the line

Agreed, or there are the ones that do 75km/h in a 90 zone then continue to maintain the 75km/h when the speed limit reduces to 60km/h.

[mwhit43]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

This is what annoys me the most
Stick to the limit,but i spose it is a maximum speed limit as many could argue ....
Another thing that annoys me, people who sit under the limit,brake along straights when cars are on comin, and when theres no on coming go faster,or when you go to overtake, the put the foot down
But i have cars that go from 100 to long lost of licence very quickly that annoys most little people in their little cars
I have no issue being overtaken , but when its done in a dangerous situation, when theres on comin traffic,double white lines, blind corners i draw the line

how do you feel about learner drivers who cant keep a constant speed?

[|Nate]

Originally Posted by blk6t

Agreed, or there are the ones that do 75km/h in a 90 zone then continue to maintain the 75km/h when the speed limit reduces to 60km/h.

I always see this, especially at the roadworks for Peninsula Link. 100km/h, reduces to 60, person doing 85 in the 100 zone maintains 85 throughout whole roadworks -_-

Originally Posted by mwhit43

how do you feel about learner drivers who cant keep a constant speed?

I don't really mind Learners going up and down here and there, they're still learning and may get a little frightened while driving.

If they're on a 2 or more lane road, as long as they're in the left lane, who cares!

[T4ME]

Is it a speed limit or maximum limit?