Learners and overtaking

[Kevaclone]

talking about L platers
who here has taught their learner how to overtake on single lane two way roads
or was taught how while learning?

Both my eldest know how to do it.
But we see so many who just follow along and even tailgating behind someone doing 70 in a 100 zone on straight stretches, but never pass
I remember years ago there was even ads on TV showing the proper way to overtake.

Being from a country area when I was learning to drive(30klms between towns) overtaking was something everyone did.
These days it's uncommon in some places to see anyone overtaking, instead they will sit behind the slower vehicle for 10klms or more till the next passing lane. Of course the slower vehicle then speeds up.

[TheInterceptor]

Nobody taught me, i just learnt as i went and nothings changed since.

Perhaps the people who sit behind cars not overtaking are scared of getting booked for speeding while overtaking?

[pyr0boy]

I remember being taught too do just as your saying.

Although that was a good 10 years ago, not that I'm that old, but I would say I have noticed the same that you are speaking about.
I get the feeling that it is now frowned upon, or is simply not taught, which is a shame really because being taught how to properly and safely may very well safe some young peoples lives as perhaps the first few times they do something goes wrong, like a kick down in an auto while wet causing them too loose control.

But then again honestly in a lot of ways the current 120 hour or what ever it is now, is a very bad joke, 120 hours of sunny skies and 50 km/h zones mean very little to me. 12 hours faced with day/night, dry/wet, 40 - 110 km/h sounds a lot more beneficial. As well as practice reverse parking and overtaking.

I'd love to know as well what current L/P platers are taught by instructors...

Perhaps the people who sit behind cars not overtaking are scared of getting booked for speeding while overtaking?

Wouldn't be surprised given the current system of revenue employed by the government

[Silver Ghia]

Interesting subject these days, it seems that overtaking is discouraged despite years ago many drivers like myself did it all the time, as my father did before then. But the police these days will nab drivers overtaking when they are over the speed limit when overtaking. Regardless of the fact it is far safer overtaking in the minimal time (within reason), than spending several seconds on the wrong side of the road just to stay within the speed limit, and risk a head-on.

I doubt newer drivers have the courage to overtake these days, probably because they dont learn how to do it, especially by the driving school. Driving schools seem to concentrate more on just driving around the testing courses so the learner passes the test, not actually learn to drive.

[BlueFG2]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Interesting subject these days, it seems that overtaking is discouraged despite years ago many drivers like myself did it all the time, as my father did before then. But the police these days will nab drivers overtaking when they are over the speed limit when overtaking. Regardless of the fact it is far safer overtaking in the minimal time (within reason), than spending several seconds on the wrong side of the road just to stay within the speed limit, and risk a head-on.

I doubt newer drivers have the courage to overtake these days, probably because they dont learn how to do it, especially by the driving school. Driving schools seem to concentrate more on just driving around the testing courses so the learner passes the test, not actually learn to drive.

I completely agree, my learning instructor took me around the test routes and taught me a 3 point turn and a reverse parallel park as that is all I needed to pass the test, when I asked about learning more about reversing and parking he told me that VicRoads don't care about that stuff.

Luckily my old man taught me to be more assertive on the roads and I picked up reversing and parking easily on my own, but if you are somebody being taught solely by an instructor, then you might be in for a surprise when you drive through the city and take a run on the freeway.

[Kryton]

I cant believe that people need to be "taught" how to overtake.
I really didnt think it was such a complex task.

[H.G]

I guess Im not as in a big of a rush as I should be.. but I only overtake if I get bored or frustrated with the constant speed changes.. otherwise if they are humming along at a consistant pace Ill just follow.. not because I dont know how to pass.. but because I couldnt be bothered.

[H.G]

I wonder if its still a question on the test...
are you allowed to drive faster than the speed limit when overtaking?
it use to get so many people....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by H.G

are you allowed to drive faster than the speed limit when overtaking?.

No. Fine applies, regardless of circumstances you give HWP (oncoming traffic etc)

That said, I'll exceed the speed-limit, at my dollar risk of course, if I consider it necessary. I teach learners to look, signal fully in and out, even to give a quick momentary flash of high-beam on high-speed roads, if needed.

[|Nate]

Overtaking seemed just a part of the whole driving experience, after seeing my parents do it so many times, it seems almost natural to do it, like washing your hands or eating and drinking.

With that said, learners should only overtake in those situations if they feel comfortable to do so. I know when I've been overtaking, there has been all different kind of dips and bumps on the other side of the road that you don't expect, so if someone is pushed into overtaking without the proper experience, it can easily end badly.

In regards to speed limits while overtaking, I generally will go 10+ km's over the limit if the situation requires it, as I prefer to be back on my side of the road, rather than stuff around in the death lane.
Although if someone sticks to the limit and seems like a competent driver, I'll just stay behind.

[flooded one]

I just did it. I was never shown. i got stuck behind a slow driver and passed when safe to do so.

[Itsme]

I don't care if people overtake or not...as long as they leave sufficient space between cars for me to overtake safely then I'm happy.
I hate assholes who sit up each others asses making it difficult for others to overtake.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by davway

I cant believe that people need to be "taught" how to overtake.
I really didnt think it was such a complex task.

well we teach people to parallel park

I would think that is less complex (and it sure as **** has less capacity to kill than overtaking)

[XR6T0Y]

I got shown how to do it (parents taught me). Still do it today, however where I am you NEED to speed up to get around. It's a 100k zone, with people sitting on about 85-90. Gets more frustrating than anything. When I did my L's, they did the parallel park and hill start (auto.....). Since the L's test (just over two years ago), I have parallel parked ONCE. I have overtaken countless times..... It needs to be taught within reason as to what speed they are allowed to do.

[Benny D]

i overtake people all the time.. i dont know why but people seem to sit 10-20 kph under the speed limit everywere.. and the funniest part is even though i overtake in a safe manner and do nothing to offend anyone it still seems to be the persons responsibility to beep at me and flash thier lights for no f*%king reason other than i went past?
too many ******* driving around nowdays...

[H.G]

I hate straight racers...
they can go flat out on a nice flat straight section of road.. but as soon as corners come up,, they are riding thier brakes and slowing down well and truely below the recommended speeds.. and even those recommended speeds are stupid.. most times its just as safe sitting 20km over the suggested speed..
one thing I love about my falcon is that over taking is a dream.. it just loves to be opened up..to a point I almost feel bad for backing off again

[Rapid05xr6]

I was shown how to do it when i was on my l's (still on green p's now) out where i am its an absolute pain, the main highway is only 2 lane most of the way, there are a few overtaking lanes, but not enough, and with the huge amount of trucks on the road, passed one yesterday doing 50 in a 100 zone! passing trucks can be a bit hairy too if they are a road train, one thing that should be taught is knowing how much room is enough room to get past safely, the amount of close calls out this way is insane! But at least up here everyone can do the speed limit even learners, went for a trip down south a few months ago and went past a learner on the freeway doing the 80 that they had to do, i think that causes more problems than anything

[Vincenzo]

As a Driving Instructor under the DTAL system, it was one of the competencies that had to be done and signed off. As for taking students on the test course, never happened I made it a point to stay away from them. If they could drive everywhere else they could drive the test course. Each of the three testing centres in Darwin had a choice of four courses.

I had the best figures of any instructor at the time. Of my last 61 students 58 passed on their first attempt and the other three passed on their second.

[In Focus]

The amount of idiots who sit right behind a slow-moving vehicle, forcing them to both "pop out" to see any oncoming traffic and accelerate with no "run up" when they do decide to go, amazes me.

I was behind someone a few months back in a smoking ancient diesel 4WD who must have had about 8 or 9 goes at wiping himself and his family out. Each time I could see from a hundred metres further back that there were road-trains and all sorts of stuff coming in the opposite direction.

Back off a few lengths, people, and give yourself a chance. Especially when you've got limited power to work with like me!

[anolade]

no one gets taught the basic idea of when you over take you put you footdown make the overtake stick none of this over taking the car in front by2km faster so it's a 2min overtake
i did my learners in an old 4cyl 4wd so had to see the clear road and get wind up to do the overtake no luxury of power to spare or power steering either

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by trublu

I don't care if people overtake or not...as long as they leave sufficient space between cars for me to overtake safely then I'm happy.
I hate assholes who sit up each others asses making it difficult for others to overtake.

This always happens on the road between Cowra and Bathrust.. Last time I did the trip I took it easy and left 10 car spaces between me and the car in front. A Land cruiser approaches from behind and flies past me and jumps in front. I don't really care, he was speeding but that's not my business...

It took him the next 20km to overtake the 6 cars ahead as they were all bunched up riding each others bumpers trying to slip stream or something... I think each car got the message to let him in when he was next to them and just drifing to the left slightly in front of them with the blinker on...

Was 1 or 2 near misses as well....

Again... it's common courtesy. No gap between cars (bugger all margin of error if something happened) and people who almost went out of their way to stop overtaking because "they were already on the limit and it's my job to police you too"...

I do a lot of country KM, sometimes I do the limit, sometimes I sit 10-15km under because I'm towing a trailer or have a roof full of sheet iron and I'm in no real rush. If I see someone approach I back off, pull to the left and let them pass with a wave or a toot of their horm... I'm often stuck behind someone doing an equally slow speed and they just keep driving with not a care in the world like they are the only person for miles... It can get frustrating.....

[Gezza1er]

Whats overtaking??? Na just joking im on my l`s atm and went with an auto instructer once for confidence then after that he said i do not need any more.lessons in the auto and recomend i do 1 manual lesson.i went to that one and he said thats all i needed and go for the second phase l`s but never have i been taught to overtake or how to be positioned if someone else wants to overtake.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by anolade

no one gets taught the basic idea of when you over take you put you footdown make the overtake stick none of this over taking the car in front by2km faster so it's a 2min overtake
i did my learners in an old 4cyl 4wd so had to see the clear road and get wind up to do the overtake no luxury of power to spare or power steering either

there is no rule saying you have to speed up. trucks manage to get by, all day every day. car drivers don't know patience!!

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

This always happens on the road between Cowra and Bathrust.. Last time I did the trip I took it easy and left 10 car spaces between me and the car in front. A Land cruiser approaches from behind and flies past me and jumps in front. I don't really care, he was speeding but that's not my business...

It took him the next 20km to overtake the 6 cars ahead as they were all bunched up riding each others bumpers trying to slip stream or something... I think each car got the message to let him in when he was next to them and just drifing to the left slightly in front of them with the blinker on...

Was 1 or 2 near misses as well....

Again... it's common courtesy. No gap between cars (bugger all margin of error if something happened) and people who almost went out of their way to stop overtaking because "they were already on the limit and it's my job to police you too"...

I do a lot of country KM, sometimes I do the limit, sometimes I sit 10-15km under because I'm towing a trailer or have a roof full of sheet iron and I'm in no real rush. If I see someone approach I back off, pull to the left and let them pass with a wave or a toot of their horm... I'm often stuck behind someone doing an equally slow speed and they just keep driving with not a care in the world like they are the only person for miles... It can get frustrating.....

again, it comes down to patience. if you come across a line of cars behind a slow moving vehicle, what makes you think your journey is more important than all those ahead of you?? just sit back and wait your turn.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by davway

I cant believe that people need to be "taught" how to overtake.
I really didnt think it was such a complex task.

Not aimed at you Davway, but from 35 years personal experience it can be tricky sometimes..


Here's a scary scenario that can happen, has happened to me several times:

Try overtaking without exceeding the posted speed limit or if the wnkr you're overtaking decides to suddenly speed up,
Now you're struggling to pass some one, so you decide to chicken out because a truck is coming
the ****r you're overtaking then decides to jump on the brakes and trap you in the oncoming lane..

Sometimes the law is an a55...

I mostly sit or about 5kph over the limit on the highway, amazing the number of people who pass me,
especially those who don't know the speed camera is just up ahead...

[XARATE]

Theres one problem with teaching L platers how to overtake- they are not allowed to go over 80kph. Where i live (country town) most of the roads are 100 zones, how can i teach a L plater doing 80 to overtake a car going 100? Its simply impossible.

On the flip side i ********** hate people that are impatient whith l platers and conduct the stupidest and highly dangerous overtaking manouvers just because they cant wait 5 minutes for a safe opportunity.
For example im currently teaching my partner to drive and we were recently traveling a 100km road that goes into town. We were 7km from the town boundry when a larger volvo softroader came up behind us. He waited not even 30 seconds and decided to over take on a long righthand bend that you couldnt see around due to trees, he got next to us and a car came around the corner. My partner did the roght thing and nailed the brakes to allow the volve drover to squeeze in in front of her. The volve driver lost his drivers side mirror as it smashed into the oncoming cars mirror. Needless to say i wasnt happy and wanted to kill him for doing such a stupid thing. I took down his rego as he didnt stop and 10 minutes later ran into him at the shopping center as he was getting his two kids out the car!!! I wont say what happened then

My point is he had less then 10km to get back into town where both cars would be doing the same speed yet he choseto risk peoples lives just because he could wait brhind a L plater. Some people meed to learn how to overtake safely and because of the enforced 80kph limit imposed on L platers its impossible.
Something needs to change!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

again, it comes down to patience. if you come across a line of cars behind a slow moving vehicle, what makes you think your journey is more important than all those ahead of you?? just sit back and wait your turn.

I have patience but why should I get stuck behind clowns who have no intention of overtaking but they insist on sitting on each others rear ends slowing traffic down on a perfectly good road that is safe to travel at the recommended speed.

It is these people who cause accidents and have no regards for any one else but them selves.

BTW I do make exceptions for trucks Caravans or any vehicle that do go slow for legitimate reasons.

[LG17]

My youngest is on his Ls here in Qld at the moment. He's 8 months into his 12 month stint and has already exceeded the 100 hours of supervised driving. At this stage he's only had 3 lessons from a driving school.

A few weeks ago he drove from Cairns to Townsville return. One of the reasons for my having him do that was so that he could get practice in overtaking on a single lane open road. Contrary to what some others have said, it is a special skill to do it safely and properly - it doesn't just happen.

I've made sure that he has experienced as many types of road and weather conditions as possible - probably the only one he won't get to do is snow 'cause there isn't any in FNQ.

If you care about your kids and want them to be as safe as possible, you will try to ensure that they experience as much as possible whilst on their Ls.

[The Snout]

People bang on about having a 6 or 8 pot for overtaking but in the people I see on the road the biggest thing about overtaking is attitude and application. The amount of people I see driving a 6 or 8 and can't overtake while I sail past them in my 2.4L 4 pot is crazy.

It take all types and if you are the sort who doesn't overtake a lot, fine. But use some sense and give room in front for those that can go around you.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by davway

I cant believe that people need to be "taught" how to overtake.
I really didnt think it was such a complex task.

Don't think its about teaching people to overtake as such ...... its more about giving them confidence and showing them when are where. It can be a daunting thing when cars, trucks, buses, caravans, rain, night time, fog are involved.

I taught my young bloke and the confidence goes 2 ways ...... 1 for him to do it and for me to sit next to him while he does it. It can be interesting the first few times along with a couple hail Mary's.

I think it should be mandatory that a L plater should have 5 ish professional lessons before getting in the car with mum or dad. Learnt that after a couple of scary runs with him behind the wheel and my patience (nervousness) not prevailing. Would even pay for those who are in the passenger go with the instructor and see how its done.

[michael_ozzie]

I seem to remember my old man telling me, when I was on my L's that although I had to make sure I could get around and back, I also had to know that the car could get around the vehicle safely.

If this meant exceeding the speed limit, and paying a fine, then he would happily wear it. Hasn't steered me wrong thus far, but it is certainly something L platers need to practice. Same as parking, it is all about judgement, and how can you you have good judgement if you don't practice it? We are not born with the ability to park and drive, these are skills we acquire over hours of driving.