USS Iowa heads to LA.

[My poor XF]

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...me-3588477.php

Don't know how many will find this interesting but personally im just amazed by these ships.

Good to see a piece of history being preserved for future generations. And some fantastic photos of her passing under the golden gate bridge.

[GhiaEB]

I'm a navel buff also, these ships are just wow. The size of the projectile they could fire.... Damn... Nice to see it preserved.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by GhiaEB

I'm a navel buff also, these ships are just wow. The size of the projectile they could fire.... Damn... Nice to see it preserved.

So you contemplate your navel? Glad to see you're a naval enthusiast as well.

Sorry ... couldn't resist. LOL

[Road_Warrior]

Excellent, finally the big stick finds a home.

I was in awe of these ships the first time I went over one (USS Missouri in 1991) and I'm still in awe today.

[2011G6E]

Beautiful ships, still just about the best conventional stand-off weapon, and the origin of the term "gunboat diplomacy"...you park your battleship or dreadnaught (much cooler name than battleship) off the coast and start negotiating with the government, casually throwing in a comment like "by the way...have you looked out your window...?"

Also, you can sit over the horizon and comfortably lob 16 inch shells at your target.

They're amazing ships, that get mothballed every decade or so, before being dragged out and refitted when they realise you can't really replace them with any other modern ship, even ignoring the fact you simply couldn't build more today...imagine how many tens of billions it would take to build something like a WW2 design battleship?

[hawker]

Fantastic. I wish Australia would preserve more of its naval history.

I had the opportunity to visit Spectacle Island which is stocked full of RAN history. You could get lost for days.

[rvsm]

uh you would never use an outdated thing like that ever now adays. we have things called guided weapons and missiles. pretty neat things can fly a lot further and carry more of a precise impact.

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Beautiful ships, still just about the best conventional stand-off weapon, and the origin of the term "gunboat diplomacy"...you park your battleship or dreadnaught (much cooler name than battleship) off the coast and start negotiating with the government, casually throwing in a comment like "by the way...have you looked out your window...?"

Also, you can sit over the horizon and comfortably lob 16 inch shells at your target.

They're amazing ships, that get mothballed every decade or so, before being dragged out and refitted when they realise you can't really replace them with any other modern ship, even ignoring the fact you simply couldn't build more today...imagine how many tens of billions it would take to build something like a WW2 design battleship?

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by rvsm

uh you would never use an outdated thing like that ever now adays. we have things called guided weapons and missiles. pretty neat things can fly a lot further and carry more of a precise impact.

Ask the Iraqi Republican Guard who were in Kuwait which scared them the most, the cruise missile or the sight and sound of the Mighty Mo or New Jersey opening up with a full broadside?

Also for an amphibious assault of a beach, the shells of the big guns are cheaper and more demoralising than a million dollar cruise missile.

In the second Gulf War, the British were glad Arunta was using her quick fire cannon on their beach landing as the FCO could direct fire support form Arunt'a cannon quicker than rerouting a Tomahawk and hit more targets.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Ask the Iraqi Republican Guard who were in Kuwait which scared them the most, the cruise missile or the sight and sound of the Mighty Mo or New Jersey opening up with a full broadside?

Also for an amphibious assault of a beach, the shells of the big guns are cheaper and more demoralising than a million dollar cruise missile.

In the second Gulf War, the British were glad Arunta was using her quick fire cannon on their beach landing as the FCO could direct fire support form Arunt'a cannon quicker than rerouting a Tomahawk and hit more targets.

Just one nit, New Jersey did not serve in the Gulf War, it was Wisconsin and Missouri.

[GhiaEB]

Originally Posted by Pedro

So you contemplate your navel? Glad to see you're a naval enthusiast as well.

Sorry ... couldn't resist. LOL

Stupid iPhone! Autocorrect does my head in at times

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by rvsm

uh you would never use an outdated thing like that ever now adays. we have things called guided weapons and missiles. pretty neat things can fly a lot further and carry more of a precise impact.

sometimes it is not so much the capability of the weapon but it's presence that is the deterrent.

Guided missiles like the Tomahawk are used for strategic targets, such as communications and military installations. What you are saying is not wrong, and is the reason no country has commissioned a new battleship since the 40's. The Bismarck, Yamato, Prince of Wales are all examples of air power at sea. However, bang for buck, these things can just sit off the coast and pulverize a target.

All 4 operational Iowa Class Battleships will now be floating museums, which is excellent that their history can be admired. I'm always amazed at how stunning such a destructive instrument of war can be. Can't wait to get to Pearl Harbor one day, and look over 'Mo'.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by rvsm

uh you would never use an outdated thing like that ever now adays. we have things called guided weapons and missiles. pretty neat things can fly a lot further and carry more of a precise impact.

The us navy still hasnt been able to effectivley replace the close range shore bombardment capability of the Iowa's. The Iowa's were modernized in the 80's and 90's to give them tomahawk missiles so they were the best of both worlds.

during the first gulf war the Wisconsin had the first recorded surrender to a UAV in combat operations.

I think it's amazing that you can still see all 4 Iowa's, the north Carolina, Texas and the Alabama. Certainly on my list of places to visit in the US.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

They're amazing ships, that get mothballed every decade or so, before being dragged out and refitted when they realise you can't really replace them with any other modern ship, even ignoring the fact you simply couldn't build more today...imagine how many tens of billions it would take to build something like a WW2 design battleship?

They were refitted once, for Regan's 600 ship navy plan, and have been mothballed since the end of the gulf war. All four ships were decommissioned years ago.

Cost was another reason they didnt continue in service, they cost a bomb to run, chew fuel like a battleship would, and need roughly 2000 people to run one.

[2011G6E]

Exactly...it's a psychological thing.
As I said with the old "gunboat diplomacy", if the diplomat pointed out the window to a little grey frigate off in the distance and said "That thing has missiles on it", the other guy would probably shrug and say "so do a hundred clapped out Landcruiser utes chopped down into military vehicles in the desert around here".

However, park a 270 meter long Iowa-class battleship weighing 45,000 tonnes and armed with nine 16 inch guns off the coast (not to mention all the other guns, Phalanx cannons, and cruise missiles as well), and it makes for a rather more impressive display of how badly things could turn out for the other guys if they don't behave...

The last one built was in 1944 (the Missouri)...so the newest of these ships is now 68 years old, and still going strong and serving a useful purpose. Good to see!

An interesting bit of trivia about the Missouri from a website about the ship:
On 11 April 1945, a low-flying kamikaze, although fired on, crashed on Missouri's starboard side, just below her main deck level. The starboard wing of the plane was thrown far forward, starting a gasoline fire at 5 in (130 mm) Gun Mount No. 3. The battleship suffered only superficial damage, and the fire was brought quickly under control. The remains of the pilot were recovered onboard the ship just aft of one of the 40 mm gun tubs. Captain Callaghan decided that the young Japanese pilot had done his job to the best of his ability, and with honor, so he should be given a military funeral. The following day he was buried at sea with military honors. The dent in the side of the ship remains to this day.

[mostly_broncos]

There is one of those parked about 30 minutes from my house. Its set up as a museum , the battleship Massachusetts . We went on it every summer when I was growing up

A friend and I kayaked up to the side of it a few years ago . It just sits in the water and barely reacts to waves its so massive. When you are paddling towards it you can see it clearly for probably close to 2 miles when coming down river .

You can actually stay overnight on it now
http://www.battleshipcove.org/overnights.asp

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by hawker

Fantastic. I wish Australia would preserve more of its naval history.

I had the opportunity to visit Spectacle Island which is stocked full of RAN history. You could get lost for days.

It annoys me to no end that there was no real effort to save the HMAS Australia after the war - the things that ship went through were remarkable.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It annoys me to no end that there was no real effort to save the HMAS Australia after the war - the things that ship went through were remarkable.

Couldn't agree more, if there is one ship that would deserve recognition it's the Australia. Can't even buy models of her.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

Couldn't agree more, if there is one ship that would deserve recognition it's the Australia. Can't even buy models of her.

If you are referring to the WW2 County Class heavy cruiser best way to build a model is buy the Airfix HMS Suffolk and convert it as they are very much the same.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CGEQ8wIwAA

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews...ix/suffolk.htm

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum...6188&start=100

You might also like this


http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

If you are referring to the WW2 County Class heavy cruiser best way to build a model is buy the Airfix HMS Suffolk and convert it as they are very much the same.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CGEQ8wIwAA

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews...ix/suffolk.htm

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum...6188&start=100

You might also like this


http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html

Cheers. Member of that site and I hadn't found those links.

I prefer to build in 1:350, hoping for anything Australian in that scale.

[Burnout]

Whilst the Iowa Class were designed to compete with the latest Japanese designs, namely Yamoto Class, the Iowa's weren't the be all and end all.

For example:
During the summer of 1940, HMS 'Warspite' was transferred to the Mediterranean theatre and fought in several engagements. During the Battle of Calabria she was credited with achieving one of the longest range gunnery hits from a moving ship to a moving target in history. This was a hit on the 'Giulio Cesare' at a range of approximately 26,000 yards. (The other was by the 'Scharnhorst', which scored a hit on the 'Glorious' at approximately the same distance in June 1940).

Warspite was a Queen Elizabeth Class, laid down in 1912 & launched in 1913. An oldie but a goodie. Her Mediterranean Master Admiral Cunningham, nick named her 'The Great old Lady'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warspite_%2803%29

Warspite wasn't alone, there were other ships, some Aussie Boats like the 'Scrap Iron Flotilla' for instance, led by 'Hec' Waller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrap_Iron_Flotilla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_Waller

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Whilst the Iowa Class were designed to compete with the latest Japanese designs, namely Yamoto Class, the Iowa's weren't the be all and end all.

For example:
During the summer of 1940, HMS 'Warspite' was transferred to the Mediterranean theatre and fought in several engagements. During the Battle of Calabria she was credited with achieving one of the longest range gunnery hits from a moving ship to a moving target in history. This was a hit on the 'Giulio Cesare' at a range of approximately 26,000 yards. (The other was by the 'Scharnhorst', which scored a hit on the 'Glorious' at approximately the same distance in June 1940).

What makes those, particularly the scharnhorst's, hits more incredible is that they were optically ranged. No radar ranging or fire control available that was available to the Iowa's.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Whilst the Iowa Class were designed to compete with the latest Japanese designs, namely Yamoto Class, the Iowa's weren't the be all and end all.

For example:
During the summer of 1940, HMS 'Warspite' was transferred to the Mediterranean theatre and fought in several engagements. During the Battle of Calabria she was credited with achieving one of the longest range gunnery hits from a moving ship to a moving target in history. This was a hit on the 'Giulio Cesare' at a range of approximately 26,000 yards. (The other was by the 'Scharnhorst', which scored a hit on the 'Glorious' at approximately the same distance in June 1940).

Warspite was a Queen Elizabeth Class, laid down in 1912 & launched in 1913. An oldie but a goodie. Her Mediterranean Master Admiral Cunningham, nick named her 'The Great old Lady'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warspite_%2803%29

Warspite wasn't alone, there were other ships, some Aussie Boats like the 'Scrap Iron Flotilla' for instance, led by 'Hec' Waller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrap_Iron_Flotilla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_Waller

I'm not sure what comparison you're making here? Lots of ships of all shapes, sizes and classes proved through either good design or sheer luck in WWII their ability to absorb punishment and keep fighting. HMAS Australia being a classic example. But as we all know, there were many, many others that werent so fortunate...

[Franco Cozzo]

That looks awesome.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

image

That looks awesome.

Indeedy, I've got another one at home of Missouri and Wisconsin during the Gulf War, line astern, on NGFS duty. I'll post it up when I get home.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

image

That looks awesome.

Someone down range is about to have a bad day...
Magnificent pictures aren't they...even more impressive if you can find the ones taken from the deck when they do a broadside.

As long as someone doesn't bring up the old myth of the ship "moving sideways" when they fire all nine guns. The lines you can see away from the hull are shock wave waves...think about it...the mass of the ship is below the line of fire, not much above that point, so if the cannons "pushed sideways", it would try to roll the ship over to the opposite side...there's no way it can "move the whole ship".

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm not sure what comparison you're making here? Lots of ships of all shapes, sizes and classes proved through either good design or sheer luck in WWII their ability to absorb punishment and keep fighting. HMAS Australia being a classic example. But as we all know, there were many, many others that werent so fortunate...

I agree with you, after all, 'Warspite's' sister 'Barham', was blown up by shells just a little later. Proof you can't have everything in a ship, especially warships.

[Franco Cozzo]

Top down view:



Look at the water, would you even be able to be on deck during that? You'd have no hearing left.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

As long as someone doesn't bring up the old myth of the ship "moving sideways" when they fire all nine guns.

Goddamn it I hate that stupid old wives tale. There is no way the recoil even from all of the 16in guns firing at once (which is not possible anymore following the 1980's modernisation) is capable of moving a 45,000 ton ship sideways.

The main guns have got recoil cylinders built into them anyway so the whole story is complete B.S.

Anyway, here's that pic I promised. I was wrong, it wasn't Wisconsin and Missouri, it appears to be New Jersey and possibly Missouri. Ship-spotters will also note the long-gone nuclear powered cruiser USS Long Beach astern.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm not sure what comparison you're making here? Lots of ships of all shapes, sizes and classes proved through either good design or sheer luck in WWII their ability to absorb punishment and keep fighting. HMAS Australia being a classic example. But as we all know, there were many, many others that werent so fortunate...

I think you will find that amongst warship enthusiasts all over the world the battleship is king and HMS Warspite is the king of kings due to the service this ship gave. From Jutland to the battle of Calabria, the battle of Cape Matapan, the Normandy landings. This is not a cruiser, it is a big gun super dreadnought. It is HMS Warspite. The ship that refused to die. It suffered damage from bombs, mines, shell fire and in the end it defied the scrapper man and took it's own life on the coast of Cornwall.

Yes, many other ships served well and gave good service, it is just that Warspite is special.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Burnout

I agree with you, after all, 'Warspite's' sister 'Barham', was blown up by shells just a little later. Proof you can't have everything in a ship, especially warships.

Barham was torpedoed. The magazines exploded when the ship capsized. Not uncommon. Yamato!