Qantas job cuts

[Jim Goose]

Well there we go... we close the airline down to force arbitration (illegally mind you).... then finally come an agreement about wages... then we sack them.

I can see all maintenance going overseas now... which is what has been said for a few years now.

Qantas is expected to announce hundreds of job cuts when it releases its half-yearly results later today.

The Herald Sun is reporting the airline is poised to announce hundreds of general staff cuts, as well as putting more than 1,400 maintenance jobs under review.

The paper is reporting the maintenance job losses, to come from the Tullamarine and Avalon operations in Victoria and from the Brisbane workshop, will result in the closure of at least one of the heavy maintenance bases.

The airline has already flagged a sharp decline in profits and axed 1,000 jobs last year.

It has been involved in a long-running battle with unions over fears the airline is planning to move the majority of its operations offshore.

Qantas refused to comment ahead of the release of its results.

But one Qantas aircraft welder at Melbourne airport told the ABC he had been told that the maintenance bases in Victoria will be consolidated.

"What we've been told is there is to be one maintenance base in Victoria. Rather than having Avalon and Melbourne working in tandem, there should be one maintenance base. That would leave Brisbane and one in Victoria."

ACTU national secretary Jeff Lawrence says any job cuts at Qantas would not come as a surprise.

"Ever since the dispute last year it's been pretty clear that Qantas was intent on restructuring operations and cutting jobs," he said.

"And so it's a concern and when you add it to some of the other things that have been happening in the job market it does show that we've got some challenges at the start of 2012."

Yesterday Victorian Premier Ted Baillieu had a briefing from Qantas but refused to answer questions about the possible job cuts.

"Qantas makes market-sensitive announcements about its half-yearly report," he said.

"I had a brief discussion and I don't intend to go into the details about that."

Profit and massive payrises for CEOs is the prime directive these days, whereby being super rich and voting yourself payrises is the norm.
Sacking the workers and making excuses about "unsustainable" costs is utter rubbish.... look at the ANZ, where its posted massive profits, has lifted interest rates and announced 1000 people will be sacked as well.

[Bossxr8]

Whats happening in this country is a total disgrace, before we know most of our jobs will be in China and India and we'll be in a race to the bottom for wages.

Very worrying signs that this countries un-employment rate is going to skyrocket.

But its ok because we have the carbon tax that will provide us all with jobs building windmills, which will rid the earth of pollution. Thanks Bob Brown.

[TS50]

Half the problem in Australia at the moment is that everyone wants high wages, which the causes prices to go up
However, then we want to pay peanuts for anything we buy, so we buy overseas etc
The problem is that companies like Qantas havet o compete with international airlines etc, who because of where they are based, pay their staff a lot less than our Australian counterparts. Then when people fly overseas, they wont fly qantas because their air fares are too high, then they complain when qantas want to move staff overseas so they can compete.
We cant have it both ways people

[Neale]

Maybe if they didnt ground the whole fleet recently they wouldnt have lost so much money.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Neale

Maybe if they didnt ground the whole fleet recently they wouldnt have lost so much money.

That cost them 200mil I heard.

Air Australia has just gone broke. Hundreds stranded OS with no flight home right now.

Not a good indicator of times to come.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Well there we go... we close the airline down to force arbitration (illegally mind you).... then finally come an agreement about wages... then we sack them.

I can see all maintenance going overseas now... which is what has been said for a few years now.



Profit and massive payrises for CEOs is the prime directive these days, whereby being super rich and voting yourself payrises is the norm.
Sacking the workers and making excuses about "unsustainable" costs is utter rubbish.... look at the ANZ, where its posted massive profits, has lifted interest rates and announced 1000 people will be sacked as well.

Time elect a new board and ceo , the current people have nfi about the facts , by doing so some of the profit being made by illegal closure and the profit made will be recouped , until the public image is changed by said replacement they will continue to fail . Personally the sooner they management is flicked the sooner I will return but until then like so many others my business goes elsewhere , and of course if the staff is mass fired the more resolve I have to not use Quantis be used until rectified

[GT0132]

Hold on for the ride as it looks like it's gonna be a bumpy one.

the banks axing jobs
Sleep City in administration
qantas axing jobs and routes
Air Australia in administration
Pacific Brands closing factories and laying off staff

Smells like a delayed recession looming to me. Not looking like a good year ahead at all

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by TS50

Half the problem in Australia at the moment is that everyone wants high wages, which the causes prices to go up
However, then we want to pay peanuts for anything we buy, so we buy overseas etc
The problem is that companies like Qantas havet o compete with international airlines etc, who because of where they are based, pay their staff a lot less than our Australian counterparts. Then when people fly overseas, they wont fly qantas because their air fares are too high, then they complain when qantas want to move staff overseas so they can compete.
We cant have it both ways people

Would you work for $20per hour with no super? no holidays? etc etc... with the current costs of living in Australia?
"high" wages in Australia? Sadly thats a big misconception because its only a minority of people earning big money in this country.

Tell me how would you pay off your $800 000 dog box in sydney ? or the average $380 000 home in Townsville? or pay $350 in rent per week?
"High" wages hasnt caused the housing market to go absolutly stupid and unafordable in this country...

[TS50]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Would you work for $20per hour with no super? no holidays? etc etc... with the current costs of living in Australia?
"high" wages in Australia? Sadly thats a big misconception because its only a minority of people earning big money in this country.

Tell me how would you pay off your $800 000 dog box in sydney ? or the average $380 000 home in Townsville? or pay $350 in rent per week?
"High" wages hasnt caused the housing market to go absolutly stupid and unafordable in this country...

I know what you are saying, but by buying cheap imports does not help the employment status in this country
I am not saying our wages should drop, but because of cheap wages overseas, that is affecting our ability to compete with them
Therefore, if people in this country are not prepared to support more Australian grown produce, Australian manufactured goods, australian services (ie Qantas) there will be a lot more of this happening
Its reality, if we dont support Australian , and buy cheaper imports, not many people here will end up with jobs

[SB076]

Originally Posted by TS50

I know what you are saying, but by buying cheap imports does not help the employment status in this country
I am not saying our wages should drop, but because of cheap wages overseas, that is affecting our ability to compete with them
Therefore, if people in this country are not prepared to support more Australian grown produce, Australian manufactured goods, australian services (ie Qantas) there will be a lot more of this happening
Its reality, if we dont support Australian , and buy cheaper imports, not many people here will end up with jobs

Agree I work in manufacturing - I have mates that work in finance we used to discusss things like the future of manufacturing in this country - They thought there jobs were safe - in this day an age anything can be outsourced. I dont beleive wages should be reduved in Australia but the simple reality is that somwhere around the world someone is willing to do your job for a lot less (and no I dont blame them)

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Would you work for $20per hour with no super? no holidays? etc etc... with the current costs of living in Australia?
"high" wages in Australia? Sadly thats a big misconception because its only a minority of people earning big money in this country.

Tell me how would you pay off your $800 000 dog box in sydney ? or the average $380 000 home in Townsville? or pay $350 in rent per week?
"High" wages hasnt caused the housing market to go absolutly stupid and unafordable in this country...

Jim I think you have nailed it right there: high cost of living/housing prices. This necessitates a high wage. It also leads people to buy the cheapest imports they can (yes, even airfares) to save some coin, which leads to those (Australian workers) who offer the higher priced products losing their jobs. Vicious circle.

What would solve a lot of this pressure would be housing prices at 1.5 to 3 times yearly earnings, like the average throughout the 20th century. Flip side would be tougher finance, for it is cheap offshore credit (and policy as well, admittedly) that have led to this bubble.

Starting in the workforce in the early 90's when jobs were, let's say, very scarce, I learned only to trust myself in terms of ultimate employment. I'll fire myself if I need to... And personally, I'd work under those conditions if it meant I could endure into the future to better times.

[Gobes32]

I would work for $15 an hour if houses were under 100k, simple as that.

[Uncle Niceguy]

mmm i agree with everything being said here but you gotta admit that the lifestyle we all get to have is pretty good compared to china and the like.

[irish2]

I try to support Aussie stuff whenever I can. I will often leave the multinational grocery store with nothing but Aussie goods. Despite this, some brands shift off shore simply for a higher profit. I then choose not to purchase those products, but unless it happens en-masse then nothing changes. Once the products have moved offshore the price NEVER decreases.

[chrisfpv]

The only person who should be losing their job is Alan Joyce, the past 12 months he has dragged the Qantas name through the mud.

[MITCHAY]

Everyone wants more for the work they do but wants to pay less for the work others do for the goods and services they consume.

No one cares unless it's their job on the line. You can't have both and at best maybe meet in the middle. We have 1st world problems but they are still problems.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by TS50

I know what you are saying, but by buying cheap imports does not help the employment status in this country
I am not saying our wages should drop, but because of cheap wages overseas, that is affecting our ability to compete with them
Therefore, if people in this country are not prepared to support more Australian grown produce, Australian manufactured goods, australian services (ie Qantas) there will be a lot more of this happening
Its reality, if we dont support Australian , and buy cheaper imports, not many people here will end up with jobs

Yes like has been said, its a vicious circle.
Sadly most people just go for "cheap" instead of quality...

However back to Qantas... the media reports their annual fuel bill was $440 Million dollars.... operating expenses like makes the mind boggle indeed.

Somehow a middle ground needs to found in regards to buying and supporting Australian products/ companies... we are slowly headed down a very steep hole in this country.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Hold on for the ride as it looks like it's gonna be a bumpy one.

the banks axing jobs
Sleep City in administration
qantas axing jobs and routes
Air Australia in administration
Pacific Brands closing factories and laying off staff

Smells like a delayed recession looming to me. Not looking like a good year ahead at all

thats what worries me big time

the place I work for is a U.S owned company and we have only just ( 18 or so months ago ) re opened after the yanks closing the manufacturing side down during the last gfc

we were working an average of 20 hrs ot up till the last month or so and it is not looking good as we are relying on getting out 18 tonn a month and without o/t we wont even make 14 tonn ( 3 guys in my area had to work 10hr days for 27 days straight to get the 14 tonn ) so not looking good

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Would you work for $20per hour with no super? no holidays? etc etc... with the current costs of living in Australia?
"high" wages in Australia? Sadly thats a big misconception because its only a minority of people earning big money in this country.

Tell me how would you pay off your $800 000 dog box in sydney ? or the average $380 000 home in Townsville? or pay $350 in rent per week?
"High" wages hasnt caused the housing market to go absolutly stupid and unafordable in this country...

No offence Jim, but I work for those wages. Im qualified in what I do, and I work hard for my wage. I am a mortgage holder of over 300k, AND I rent @ $325 a week. I am also the leader of a single income family. I also pay into my own super, all on $20 an hour. I just have to work hard to get me in front.

Just because I dont have money, doesnt mean I dont know how to use it. Did I also mention, I do this with two kids, one on the way, and have no credit cards, and no loans other than the home loan, and I pay insurance on everything. I am also only 26.

People in this country have got it so good (has been better though) they dont know what living is all about. And before you get onto me about being on Centrelink (wife) she gets a MASSVIE $208 a week, which I am gratefull for.

People just dont understand how to use money in this country. Everyone has all these luxuries, and they honestly dont know they have them.

Now, about the QANTAS thing, what did those unions expect, when they continually threaten to walk off the job, forcing QANTAS to shut down for a few days? They are on better wages than others in their industry, yet they couldnt be happy with what they have. The employees, AND Joyces greed has got them to the point they are at now. No sympathy from me, they have a company to run, and if its not making money, sack people, and send the jobs overseas. Unfortunately, thats the only way to do it these days. We wont pay higher airfares, but we dont want it cheap with overseas workers running the maintenance, piloting and hosting.

[z80]

Alan Joyce is a great guy if:-

(a) you are management in Qantas
(b) you are a Qantas shareholder who seeks to maximise their returns

In terms of social conscience we can deplore his actions, but in raw business and free enterprise terms he has done a great job in long term reform of qantas to maximise the profits by getting the cheapest labour available.


Capitalism...you're living in it.

Don't like it? Move to China.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by z80

Alan Joyce is a great guy if:-

(a) you are management in Qantas
(b) you are a Qantas shareholder who seeks to maximise their returns

In terms of social conscience we can deplore his actions, but in raw business and free enterprise terms he has done a great job in long term reform of qantas to maximise the profits by getting the cheapest labour available.


Capitalism...you're living in it.

Don't like it? Move to China.

Ah.. no.... was born here.. and i wasnt instilled with the "greed is good" mentality. Sadly money is what everyone seems to crave these days. And if you believe that our society is actually "thriving" because of this greed and thirst for money then your wrong.

No offence Jim, but I work for those wages. Im qualified in what I do, and I work hard for my wage. I am a mortgage holder of over 300k, AND I rent @ $325 a week. I am also the leader of a single income family. I also pay into my own super, all on $20 an hour. I just have to work hard to get me in front.

Just because I dont have money, doesnt mean I dont know how to use it. Did I also mention, I do this with two kids, one on the way, and have no credit cards, and no loans other than the home loan, and I pay insurance on everything. I am also only 26.

People in this country have got it so good (has been better though) they dont know what living is all about. And before you get onto me about being on Centrelink (wife) she gets a MASSVIE $208 a week, which I am gratefull for.

People just dont understand how to use money in this country. Everyone has all these luxuries, and they honestly dont know they have them.

No offence taken and its good to hear someone of your age who is able to manage their finances and live within their means.

Now, about the QANTAS thing, what did those unions expect, when they continually threaten to walk off the job, forcing QANTAS to shut down for a few days?

Its actually illegal to have a lock out when there is no strike in action. What Joyce did was 100% wrong and illegal. It was his actions which cost the company over $100Million in losses and ruined its reputation. There was NO strike action occurring when the lock out happened.

Qantas pilots have NEVER striked in their history. The baggage handlers were giving up to 2 weeks notice when they would have one of their short stoppages... The aircraft mechanics never once went on strike nor did the cabin crew, yet ALL of them werent happy with their wages and worried they would be sacked and their jobs moved off shore.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by The Monty

No offence Jim, but I work for those wages. Im qualified in what I do, and I work hard for my wage. I am a mortgage holder of over 300k, AND I rent @ $325 a week. I am also the leader of a single income family. I also pay into my own super, all on $20 an hour. I just have to work hard to get me in front.

Just because I dont have money, doesnt mean I dont know how to use it. Did I also mention, I do this with two kids, one on the way, and have no credit cards, and no loans other than the home loan, and I pay insurance on everything. I am also only 26.

People in this country have got it so good (has been better though) they dont know what living is all about. And before you get onto me about being on Centrelink (wife) she gets a MASSVIE $208 a week, which I am gratefull for.

People just dont understand how to use money in this country. Everyone has all these luxuries, and they honestly dont know they have them.

Now, about the QANTAS thing, what did those unions expect, when they continually threaten to walk off the job, forcing QANTAS to shut down for a few days? They are on better wages than others in their industry, yet they couldnt be happy with what they have. The employees, AND Joyces greed has got them to the point they are at now. No sympathy from me, they have a company to run, and if its not making money, sack people, and send the jobs overseas. Unfortunately, thats the only way to do it these days. We wont pay higher airfares, but we dont want it cheap with overseas workers running the maintenance, piloting and hosting.

no offence to you dude , but with your attitude . it explains why your on low wages , why you rent , and why your wife gets a centre link allowance that my SKILLED BASE wages pay taxes for . by the way my wages are high because of the element of danger, skill and shiftwork which is known to shorten peoples lives , no one ever gave me or my wife $208 a week to put towards my living expenses . you think youve got it good !!!! lets take that $208 away from you ......
people who defend low wages ,,,, there are 2 types , the super wealthy like ALLAN JONES , who is on about $600hr , and people on low wages !!!!!
its this attitude which has become two teared mainstream thinking , which allows the super wealthy to sell out your,s and my land, and all the produce , and manufacturing with it , for profit , to the rich , not to mainstream australia , and that is fraud ,and sinfull to the point where if there is a hell justice will be served , the worst part about all of this , is the ordinary man thinks the country is going down hill because of people like himself > ordinary people living week to week .

[z80]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Ah.. no.... was born here.. and i wasnt instilled with the "greed is good" mentality. Sadly money is what everyone seems to crave these days.

The only people who say money doesn't buy happiness blah blah are those who never have any.


Air Australia gone bankrupt today.

I guess their shareholders are just shrugging their shoulders and saying "we shouln't have been so greedy with our superannuation funds"

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And if you believe that our society is actually "thriving" because of this greed and thirst for money then your wrong.

Got some bad news for you, capitalism has been the most successful economic system to date....it just has some blips from time to time, but the majority prosper in it.


Poor aussie battlers paying off a 3-400k assett, bringing up 4 kids on one wage and having to settle for a 46 inch Plasma TV instead of the latest 58 inch LED with 5 pairs of 3d goggles.

[Dr Jekkyl]

The truth about the 'prosperity' and 'growth' that we revelled in for the last 10-15 years has finally been realised.

That truth is that it was a debt-fuelled binge.

That is all well and good when credit is easy to obtain but those days are coming to an end.

Hold on people, this could get really messy.

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

no offence to you dude , but with your attitude . it explains why your on low wages , why you rent , and why your wife gets a centre link allowance that my SKILLED BASE wages pay taxes for . by the way my wages are high because of the element of danger, skill and shiftwork which is known to shorten peoples lives , no one ever gave me or my wife $208 a week to put towards my living expenses . you think youve got it good !!!! lets take that $208 away from you ......
people who defend low wages ,,,, there are 2 types , the super wealthy like ALLAN JONES , who is on about $600hr , and people on low wages !!!!!
its this attitude which has become two teared mainstream thinking , which allows the super wealthy to sell out your,s and my land, and all the produce , and manufacturing with it , for profit , to the rich , not to mainstream australia , and that is fraud ,and sinfull to the point where if there is a hell justice will be served , the worst part about all of this , is the ordinary man thinks the country is going down hill because of people like himself > ordinary people living week to week .

Jesus, you alright there bud?

Everyone has a different standard of living based on where they've come from and there education and choices made when they were younger, or there career choice and progression.

I see nothing wrong with Montys post. It shows that money doesn't buy happiness and if he is happy with the wages he makes and the life he is living then who are you or I to tell him otherwise? Not everyone is involved in the mining boom and does "life threatening" shift work on the big bucks (lawl).

Chill out..

[The Monty]

Thanks for the massive personal assualt. I thought I really deserved it...
I recently took a pay cut, and dropped from a supervisor role to work more hours. I now work in an environment where I am quite happy. I had a happy team under me, that were producing 50% more than the other equivelant shift. We are all still mates, and they enjoyed the time I was there.

Oh, and since when do MY tax dollars not pay for my wifes centrelink as well? Are you kidding me you douche bag? I am a qualified butcher, which is a TRADE. And did you not read the part where it says I am paying off my house? You took the post as I earn nothing, rent, wife on the dole and we are bludgers. I actually have one child that has had a large operation, and the other one we just found out he has to as well. If it wasnt for this, the wife would be working.
And not one point in my post did I try and talk with attitude, I started the post with no offence Jim, or did your rosey coloured glasses not see these points. People like you who look DOWN on everyone are the problem in this country, not the hard workers, who do everything they can to create an income and own things when not getting a high hourly wage.
I put my whole life and monetary value out there in that post.
What did your post entail? Telling people how easy I have it and how hard you have it. So whats your story? Credit cards, debt, never claimed anything in your life, home loan hourly wage? Come on mate, man up, lets here it?

Was trying to be nice about it all, show that we arent all equal, and that money is only what you make it. Not all of us can earn big pay cheques, and then whinge how hard we have it and yet still have nothing but material possesions, and debt, while there are people (like me perhaps) that work hard, and have solidly set themselves up for the future, doing whatever they can with whatever they have.

And seriously, if they took the $208 a week away from my wife, which helps here seeing she needs to care for my kids, she would get a job, or I would work more hours, its that simple.

Now, if only money could buy me some education courses, so I could learn sentence structure..

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

look at the ANZ, where its posted massive profits, has lifted interest rates and announced 1000 people will be sacked as well.

Saw in the news this morning that the CEO is rewarding the top 200 employees by treating them to a cruise worth 1.75 million.

[The Monty]

I also wanted to say, thankyou to Jim, for seeing the point of my post, even though we didnt agree

[DJM83]

Lets keep it civil guys.
How would guys feel if you were one that lost their job eh?

[SpoolMan]

The thread topic is Qantas job cuts lets keep the focus of the thread on the job cuts.
Anything thing else doesn't belong in here, center link, Government, banks etc is all for another thread topic. (excluding political threads).