Banning phones & gadgets when crossing the road?

[balthazarr]

From: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...131-1aa8g.html

'La-la land' law: call to ban iPods and phones while crossing roads
Asher Moses
January 31, 2011 - 12:30PM

NSW Police said it would support laws banning the use of iPods, mobile phones and other electronic devices while crossing the road and while riding bicycles.

It is the latest attempt to improve traffic safety by legislating against technological distraction, but questions have been raised over whether such rules could ever be properly enforced.

In New York, a bill is pending in the transport committee that would ban pedestrians, including joggers, from using gadgets while crossing the street.

Other states including Oregon, Virginia and California are moving to ban devices such as iPods from being used while riding a bicycle. Culprits would be fined between $US20 and $US100.

Similar legislation has yet to be introduced in Australia but NSW Police said "should legislation such as that described be introduced, it would receive our support and ongoing attention".

The position is a marked turnaround from the views of NSW Police State Traffic Commander John Hartley, who said in 2007, when the US laws were first talked about, that "you can't legislate stupidity".

The reason for the change in position is unclear - national pedestrian road deaths have been falling consistently, from 351 in 1996 to 173 last year. In NSW, there has been a slight rise in pedestrian road deaths from 59 to 64 between 2009 and 2010, the RTA says.

The Pedestrian Council of Australia has been running advertisements showing people with lamb heads using their gadgets while crossing the road at a red light under the banner "Lambs to the slaughter, wait for the green".

The council's spokesman, Harold Scruby, said there should be a much stricter legislation and enforcement campaign to complement his awareness campaign. He also said device manufacturers had a "moral and corporate responsibility" to put warnings on their mobiles and music players.

In September last year a 46-year-old Sydney woman from Glebe was knocked down and killed by an ambulance - reportedly while wearing headphones - as she crossed Parramatta Road.

"They put you in la-la land, aside from the fact that, if you're using two buds you've lost the stop, look and listen awareness of things around you," Mr Scruby said.

He also criticised current laws that allowed drivers to operate vehicles and bicycles with an earbud in each ear ("they don't hear tooting, fire engines, police vehicles, ambulances ... ") and said police were generally not enforcing laws governing people crossing roads.

"You step off the footpath against a red light in America and they book you [but] in Australia they don't touch you - you see cops standing next to people who are walking against the lights," he said.

Already, Australian motorists face significant fines and three demerit points for driving or riding a vehicle while using a mobile phone, even when stopped at traffic lights. Hands-free kits are allowed but not "if it causes you to lose proper control of your vehicle", the RTA says.

People with learner or P1 provisional licenses are prohibited from using their phones while driving, with or without a hands-free.

But with drivers now gadget-free, attention is turning to pedestrians and their risk of walking into oncoming traffic while zoning out with their music players or sending texts.

The ability of mobiles to distract people from the outside world was brought home to a global audience this month when a US woman tumbled head first into a shopping centre fountain while texting. She later threatened to sue the mall.

The New York senator who has been pushing the new rules for pedestrians, Carl Kruger, said people could not be fully aware of their surroundings while "fiddling with a BlackBerry, dialling a phone number, playing Super Mario Brothers on a Game Boy or listening to music on an iPod".

He cited a rise in "accidents stemming from pedestrian distraction", including the death of a 21-year-old man crushed by a Mack truck while listening to music.

In Australia, official figures do not allow one to drill down to see the number of people killed or injured while distracted by their gadgets.

However, according to the Department of Infrastructure, 173 pedestrians were killed on Australian roads last year, down slightly from 195 in 2009.

NSW Police said the community should be mindful that road use - whether as a driver, rider or pedestrian - was a complex task requiring alertness, awareness, compliance with the road rules and good judgment at all times.

"Any distraction from the task of safely using our roads has the potential consequence of reducing road safety and for that reason we encourage all road users to apply their best efforts and full attention to the task at hand when on our roads," it said.

Spokespeople for the NSW Police and transport ministers directed requests for comment to the office of the Roads Minister, David Borger.

Mr Borger's office did not immediately respond to questions over whether any legislation similar to that adopted in the US would be introduced in NSW.

Seriously?

'NSW Police said the community should be mindful that road use - whether as a driver, rider or pedestrian - was a complex task requiring alertness, awareness, compliance with the road rules and good judgment at all times.'

Yes. It's incredibly complex walking down the street, and I don't know how people can actually cross the street - you have to turn your head, whilst stopping your feet from moving - and if I'm listening to music at the time, well - there's only so many things you can do at once, right... it's not 1 April today, is it?

[fg_nitro]

Screwby needs to shutup.

Next they will have speed cameras that flash you for having an MP3 player and you will be required to wear or implant an Etag so you can be fined on the spot.

[Adamz Ghia]

The position is a marked turnaround from the views of NSW Police State Traffic Commander John Hartley, who said in 2007, when the US laws were first talked about, that "you can't legislate stupidity".

Gotta remember NSW is flat broke. Need new revenue streams from somewhere...

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The position is a marked turnaround from the views of NSW Police State Traffic Commander John Hartley, who said in 2007, when the US laws were first talked about, that "you can't legislate stupidity".

Gotta remember NSW is flat broke. Need new revenue streams from somewhere...

What's wrong with nabbing people for jaywalking?

[redxm]

next we will have to register shoes

[Fireblade]

don't have much else to say, but next we will be microchipped so the government can control us, oh no can't do that how will we break laws and generate massive revenue.

[Kryton]

See it all the time.
People walking out and not paying any attention at all to their surroundings.
Screw the laws, let natural selection sort them out.
IPOD - should have been called DOPI instead.

[Streets]

Hahahaha keep on truckin' Scruby

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by redxm

next we will have to register shoes

I'll get a pair of those FPV branded shoes.

[snottygobble]

whilst i don't necessarily agree with the proposed law and fail to see how it could be policed effetively, but the amount of people i see around here (Melb City) aimlessly walking across the road with their complete attention focused on the screen of their phone is enormous. people with phones not looking any which way, just meandering across the street and lucky to avoid a sign post

[TheInterceptor]

Least it will render that stupid bullbar ban idea unncecessary since people will see the 5 poster before stepping into its path...

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by snottygobble

whilst i don't necessarily agree with the proposed law and fail to see how it could be policed effetively, but the amount of people i see around here (Melb City) aimlessly walking across the road with their complete attention focused on the screen of their phone is enormous. people with phones not looking any which way, just meandering across the street and lucky to avoid a sign post

I agree. Perhaps some stats on how much of a 'rise' there was in pedestrian accidents per 1000 based on pedestrian error say from 10 years ago and from now to justify these new laws.

I have lost count of the amount of times people have just stepped out in front of me in the big smoke oblivious to their surroundings.

Isn't it law to walk a bike across the road, even though it isn't all that hard to ride it? I'm sure, prior to laws relating to mobile phone usage in the car that the thoughts of 95% of the population were that only a blind fool wouldn't be able to make / receive a call while driving.

Some still hold this thought today.

I think, it's not a matter of if, but when. Cast your mind back 10-20 years ago. We were able to do a lot more until the 'fun police' decided that we need to be protected from ourselves for our own good.

Whether it is good or bad?

[uranium_death]

We should not have laws for every aspect of our lives.
If people are incapable of being responsible for themselves, then whatever comes their way is deserved.

The fundamental problem with society nowadays is the individual's failure to accept any form of self-responsibility, and the government's inability to punish people who are idiots.

The courts reward stupidity and selfishness. Why work hard when you can act a tool and point to somebody for liability and get a fat payout?

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

We should not have laws for every aspect of our lives.
If people are incapable of being responsible for themselves, then whatever comes their way is deserved.

The fundamental problem with society nowadays is the individual's failure to accept any form of self-responsibility, and the government's inability to punish people who are idiots.

The only problem is that when someone gets ran over, its the driver fault - even if the pedestrian wasnt looking.
The driver is punished by the law while the 'victim' gets a healthy TAC payout.

[pauljh74]

They don't need to ban people using gadgets, but enforce existing laws or introduce a new penalty specifically addressing crossing the road without care.
I have walked around with headphones on. I go to cross a road and I stop, look around and cross when safe. I take extra care because I can't hear cars around me. If you don't use your eyes or ears when crossing the road - that should be strongly discouraged.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by davway

The only problem is that when someone gets ran over, its the driver fault - even if the pedestrian wasnt looking.
The driver is punished by the law while the 'victim' gets a healthy TAC payout.

Well that needs to be changed. Unless the car runs a red light or a crossing, it is the pedestrians fault.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

What's wrong with nabbing people for jaywalking?

Did I miss the reference to jaywalking? Thought this was for technological distraction.

This is a silly idea from people who have way too much time on their hands. But the laws regarding fault does need to be changed to better protect the innocent victims in car vs pedestrians.

[04redxr8]

I'm shocked. I grew up in Sydney, and as a teenager I went everywhere with my Walkman. Listening to Metallica everywhere I went and I still made it to 37. Don't know how I did it.

People need to be made accountable for their own actions, not legislated against. I know its a waste of resources and very difficult for the people who have to clean up the mess, but FFS, if people are so stupid, let them die.

'La-la land' law: call to ban iPods and phones while crossing roads
Asher Moses
January 31, 2011 - 12:30PM

The ability of mobiles to distract people from the outside world was brought home to a global audience this month when a US woman tumbled head first into a shopping centre fountain while texting. She later threatened to sue the mall.

This woman should be find very heavily for public nuisance. She should then have, not just the book but the whole library thrown at her for wasting the courts time with such a stupid frivolous claim that was entirely her own fault.

Right here is where the problem is coming from. People suing others for their own stupidity.

[BHDOGS]

this is America and as you can sue anybody for anything this sort of law is need to stop people filing bogus law suits i can understand it been needed there as personal responsibility is enshrined in law this way and there forced into the wrong when they are rightfully so such as that stupid women so there is no bleeding hearts judge to give her a pay out the law is black and white.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by davway

The only problem is that when someone gets ran over, its the driver fault - even if the pedestrian wasnt looking.
The driver is punished by the law while the 'victim' gets a healthy TAC payout.

Yep...that's sort of part of it. Sometimes a driver can't do anything about it when a pedestrian just walks out in front of a car while looking at their Gayphone...

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Did I miss the reference to jaywalking? Thought this was for technological distraction.

This is a silly idea from people who have way too much time on their hands. But the laws regarding fault does need to be changed to better protect the innocent victims in car vs pedestrians.

If not jaywalking, then failing to obey a traffic signal (walking across when light is red).

As many have pointed out, the answer is not to arbitrarily limit freedoms, it's to properly utilise and enforce existing laws that should be more than adequate.

Why should I have to take my ear buds out or stop mid-call to cross the street, all because some people can't cope with the pressure of maintaining a minimal awareness of their surroundings while listening to some music?

As to fault, I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think that a pedestrian being struck by a car automatically means the driver is in the wrong. If the pedestrian's negligence (stepping out in front of the car, for example) was the cause, then there would be no fault on the part of the driver. The problem, of course, is proof.

[T3man]

Originally Posted by davway

See it all the time.
People walking out and not paying any attention at all to their surroundings.
Screw the laws, let natural selection sort them out.
IPOD - should have been called DOPI instead.

I agree with your sentiments and will vote or you as our next dictator. No, seriously I would.

The only problem is that the law won't back you up if you run over the dumassess. It is always the driver's fault - it's easier to book him and get a "conviction" (on the spot fine) than it is to take a pedestrian to court to try to prove they are the one at fault.

For anyone who thinks this isn't serious I can assure you it IS. I have it all day long with idjits walking willy-nilly along (not even across) the road without takng any notice whatsoever of the traffic.

About two months ago ... I'm just using this as an example as it was quite a serious one but there are more minor ones occuring every minute of every day ... I'm in the bus and this sheila walks off the kerb about 30m ahead of me on the opposite side of the road. She was walking the same direction I was travelling and talking on her mobile. As she stepped onto the road she keept walking in the genreral direction she was going and therefore had her back to me. At no time did she look in my direction to see if any traffic was coming - this is in the middle of a busy town centre mind you.

Now the bus is no stealth machine. Anyone with normal hearing can hear it from much further away than the 30m she was from me when she stepped onto the road. At about 20m from her I slowed and watched, waiting for her to look over her shoulder - she was now about to cross the middle line and get onto my carriageway. She did NOTHING - well yes she did - SHE WALKED STRAIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. By now I'm doing just 20km/h and 10m from her so I blast the horns.

What happens next is real classic ... she stops, turns to me and starts to give me rude gestures and a mouthful of venom. The language was the worst gutter trash that you'll ever hear from a woman.

So I stopped right adjacent to her and opened my window, "Sorry sweetheart", I said, "Next time I won't wake you up and I'll just let you die peacefully in your sleep underneath a 12 tonne bus".

[T3man]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

We should not have laws for every aspect of our lives.
If people are incapable of being responsible for themselves, then whatever comes their way is deserved.

The fundamental problem with society nowadays is the individual's failure to accept any form of self-responsibility, and the government's inability to punish people who are idiots.

The courts reward stupidity and selfishness. Why work hard when you can act a tool and point to somebody for liability and get a fat payout?

That's it in a nutshell.

[LTDHO]

I find whilst walking through the CBD, most people that jaywalk are on their phone.

Seems strange.

So I just wait for the hit!

[fairBA]

Ban all bullbars.
oh wait wrong thread - sorry


nanny state crap.
..

[OzJavelin]

Legislated, mandatory dress code for pedestrians ..

http://www.impactjackets.com/

“IMPACT JACKETS provides personal airbag protection jackets for motorcycle riders and horse back riders.” ( and pedestrians )

[Rockape]

So how do we stop all these new laws. Time to make a stand????

[burnz]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

What's wrong with nabbing people for jaywalking?

nailed it..
they were booking ppl for jaywalking in sydney not so long ago, maybe good revenue.

if they dont then book for jaywalking then they will slow traffic to 20kph, penalising the motorist for pedestrian stupidity even more..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

We should not have laws for every aspect of our lives.
If people are incapable of being responsible for themselves, then whatever comes their way is deserved.

The fundamental problem with society nowadays is the individual's failure to accept any form of self-responsibility, and the government's inability to punish people who are idiots.

The courts reward stupidity and selfishness. Why work hard when you can act a tool and point to somebody for liability and get a fat payout?

The problem rests fairly and squarely with the legal system because it holds Govt's and councils legally responsible for personal stupidity and awards ridiculous payouts to "victims".

We've followed the US trend of being over zealously litigative.

Insurance companies also contribute to the problem by demanding such measures on policy.

[Whitey-AMG]

Having a new law to deal with "offenders" is one thing..........successfully enforcing it is another !!

In VIC we have all sorts of speed cameras , red light cameras , speeding restrictions blah blah blah.........it doesn't stop people from running red lights or excessive speeding in the slightest.......

People just need to wake up......take responsibility and be accountable for their own actions for a change. Listening to an iPod whilst walking or being on a mobile phone texting whilst you're driving does not somehow make you miraculously immune to surrounding traffic conditions..........you make a mistake........you may DIE.........or worse still.........kill some innocent bystander.

The issue is how to make people more aware of these situations without resorting to benign draconian style ,revenue raising fines alone......????