Should road cars be speed limited?

[AussieAV]

Let me start by saying I'm not advocating this. My first reaction as a car enthusiast is - Hell No! Designing and engineering for speed has produced some of the most desirable, memorable and beautiful cars in history. Can't even imagine how boring cars would be if they were all designed to stay within the speed limits.

The thing is that after reading the thread about the guy doing 220 km/h in his WRX (http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11309395), I thought this is probably a question that the media and/or anti-car lobbyists will be asking very soon, and this guy has given them the ammo to do so.

The scariest thing is that when I think about it, it is hard to fault the logic behind it. What are the good reasons why a road car should be capable of doing these sorts of speeds? I'm struggling to think of any so thought I'd ask everyone for some input.

Best I can come up with is that people who want to legitimately enjoy their HP cars on a track day, but can't justify/store/afford two cars, should be able to do so. But this could be covered by systems like the Nissan GTR's that can have its limiter switched on/off based on GPS location.

I don't want a nanny state, but guys like this, make it easier for those who do, to get public support.

[Grippy]

It seems to be easy enough to turn off factory Ford speed limiters with a simple custom flash tune so dont know if it will make that much difference, though the system used on Nissan's GTR is a little more complex like you said..

[|||]

ah another nanny state thread.

i'll have a swing to start us off.

hoons in fast cars are a danger to society so we should all drive speed limited cars. no one has any reason to go faster than 110kmh on a public road in a legally registered car.

[Fev]

I will never advocate this. All we need is a much stricter punishment system based on the stupidity of the driver. Blanket fines and the like don't really work. Of course they will prevent 99% of drivers from speeding etc, it's the minority who are the ones getting news attention like that moron doing 222kw in his Wrexie (bro) and they're not the ones to give a flying proverbial about what the police say or what the law says.
If it's a much more severe punishment like jailtime and hefty penalties as well as impounding/crushing THEN and only then will they think again.

[Mad_Aussie]

When the zombies eventually come, you won't want your car to be limited.

[AussieAV]

Originally Posted by Mad_Aussie

When the zombies eventually come, you won't want your car to be limited.

Oh, I needed that, thanks!

[XR6Runner]

I bet all my worth and possessions that it would never happen. Reason being, where would the Government's income come from, if nobody would get caught speeding?

[auxr]

Originally Posted by Fev

I will never advocate this. All we need is a much stricter punishment system based on the stupidity of the driver. Blanket fines and the like don't really work. Of course they will prevent 99% of drivers from speeding etc, it's the minority who are the ones getting news attention like that moron doing 222kw in his Wrexie (bro) and they're not the ones to give a flying proverbial about what the police say or what the law says.
If it's a much more severe punishment like jailtime and hefty penalties as well as impounding/crushing THEN and only then will they think again.

+1 - I can't add any more.

pps - I'll see what ACA has to say about it tonight - NOT!

[Mad_Aussie]

Not even 2% (two percent) of road fatalities are caused through travel above set speed limits. The vast majority of fatalities therefore occur through "below the limit speeding" yet there is no safety initiative where 98% of fatalities occur.

http://www.roadsense.com.au/facts.html



Also, AussieAV, you're welcome

[sleek7]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

I bet all my worth and possessions that it would never happen. Reason being, where would the Government's income come from, if nobody would get caught speeding?

Just because a car is speed limited, doesn't mean there wont be speeding motorists, ppl would still do 90km/h in an 80 zone for example.

[WannabeXP]

Originally Posted by Fev

I will never advocate this. All we need is a much stricter punishment system based on the stupidity of the driver. Blanket fines and the like don't really work. Of course they will prevent 99% of drivers from speeding etc, it's the minority who are the ones getting news attention like that moron doing 222kw in his Wrexie (bro) and they're not the ones to give a flying proverbial about what the police say or what the law says.
If it's a much more severe punishment like jailtime and hefty penalties as well as impounding/crushing THEN and only then will they think again.

I agree! I'm all for stronger punishment. It goes alot further then just some idiot speeding, people no longer respect the authority.
just so you know i am 20 years old! one of "them" apparently
Cheers Jason

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by sleek7

Just because a car is speed limited, doesn't mean there wont be speeding motorists, ppl would still do 90km/h in an 80 zone for example.

Sorry, thought the OP meant GPS based speed limitation. As in, you are driving in an 80 zone, so you are limited to 80.

[tweeked]

NO NO NO NO

A strong, law abiding society comes from a willingness to follow fair laws, not limiting freedom to ensure that you have no choice.

I would not wish to live in a place where you are forced to comply. We fought wars to save ourselves from living that way.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by WannabeXP

I agree! I'm all for stronger punishment. It goes alot further then just some idiot speeding, people no longer respect the authority.
just so you know i am 20 years old! one of "them" apparently
Cheers Jason

I'm 22, so in the same boat as you.

[flappist]

Well Australia is a signatory to several treaties and I suspect one of them has to do with limiting speed.

Or did you think that the 250km/h limit on FPV/HSV/BMW/Merc/Audi/whatever was just a coincidence....

P.S. yes I know there are a few above 250km/h models but that number occurs FAR too often...

[msman]

why not speed limit the cars of idiots.
we do it for drink drivers with a breath tester hooked up to the ignition.
same for speeders, do over 45km/h and automatic installation of speed limiter to car of say 100km/h. this coupled with heavier fines/suspensions etc should deter half the idiots.

or even a gps style tracker for repeat offenders which records all speeds/locations. i know alot of transport companies do it already with their trucks.

a blanket limiter would be too costly and imo unfair on the majority.

[Mad_Aussie]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well Australia is a signatory to several treaties and I suspect one of them has to do with limiting speed.

Or did you think that the 250km/h limit on FPV/HSV/BMW/Merc/Audi/whatever was just a coincidence....

P.S. yes I know there are a few above 250km/h models but that number occurs FAR too often...

I was under the impression it was more of a gentleman's agreement, much like the Japanese all limiting their power output to 206kw...

Got a link with info? I'd like to read about this... Not at all saying that I don't believe it, I just wasn't aware of it.

[AussieAV]

Originally Posted by msman

why not speed limit the cars of idiots.
we do it for drink drivers with a breath tester hooked up to the ignition.
same for speeders, do over 45km/h and automatic installation of speed limiter to car of say 100km/h. this coupled with heavier fines/suspensions etc should deter half the idiots.

or even a gps style tracker for repeat offenders which records all speeds/locations. i know alot of transport companies do it already with their trucks.

a blanket limiter would be too costly and imo unfair on the majority.

That sounds like an idea with some merit. If the technology is only applied to those that continually break the law by significant amounts, the civil liberties of the vast majority would be left intact.

Maybe for really bad offenders, it could even be like the ankle bracelet for home detention. That way they couldn't beat the system by getting in someone else's car.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by AussieAV

That sounds like an idea with some merit. If the technology is only applied to those that continually break the law by significant amounts, the civil liberties of the vast majority would be left intact.

No, the minute you do one the wowsers will do it everywhere to everyone and the road tax collectors will rub their hands with glee.

Does anyone remember "Speed cameras will only be deployed in known black spots and will be highly visually signed"?


Sort of like "By 1990 no child will be living in poverty" really..........

[msman]

Originally Posted by flappist

No, the minute you do one the wowsers will do it everywhere to everyone and the road tax collectors will rub their hands with glee.

Does anyone remember "Speed cameras will only be deployed in known black spots and will be highly visually signed"?


Sort of like "By 1990 no child will be living in poverty" really..........

i guess thats the real hurdle we need to overcome.

as with everything a solution is common sense but applying that solution is a nightmare.

[GYRKIN GT]

Speed limiters on cars/bikes? No way! Never, ever!

However, in saying that, I imagine anyone with even half an interest in performance vehicles would suffer palpitations each time he/she reads about some lunatic exceeding the speed limit by ridiculous amounts.

The scary part for the responsible performance vehicle enthusiast is the unfortunate link, in the majority of cases, of ridiculous speed and vehicle type. That is, huge speed and performance vehicle normally go hand in hand.

The reality is the figure of 222km/h in a 100 zone is quite irrelevant. Why? Because 170 km/h in a 100 zone would be equally as dangerous! Once a vehicle is travelling at those speeds it becomes academic. Therefore, something like a Toyota Yaris, capable of doing 170km/h, is equally a weapon. But, typically, you don't find morons in mum's Yaris doing 170km/h in a 100 zone. It always comes back to the type of car and that's the problem.

How do you stop the problem? No easy answer is there. I believe the absolute majority of performance car people behave (most of the time) very responsibly. For those morons out there who can't behave themselves then-
(1) Go to gaol and not for a Hilton etc sentence, For speeds like we've been talking about, I mean gaol for 12 months minimum;
(2) Car is forfeited, no matter who owns it, and it's crushed;
(3) For those huge speeds, sorry, never allowed to drive again;
(4) Caught driving again, even without involving speed, 5 years picking up soap again and the car is crushed (no matter who owns it)

I suppose where I'm coming from is that I become slightly irritated when I hear about some moron doing 222km/h is his WRX and, because of that moron, some Prius lover will very likely suggest putting a speed limiter on MY GT!! Stuff the moron.

[prydey]

i'm a big NO for having a speed limiter that i can't control, BUT, i wouldn't mind a system that you can set yourself, kind of like cruise control. not sure when you'd use it but if someone doesn't like using cruise, they could just set their car so that it can't go over whatever the speed limit is in that area and then concentrate on watching the road. maybe have an override function (like tapping the brakes or clutch with cruise) so that when you nail the throttle it will override for emergency situations.

something tells me these sort of systems already exist but i can't be sure.

[Mickxr8]

ban low performance drivers not high performance cars !. you can bash wet sand around an oval all day, wont make any difference !. more cops on the road,more judges with a spine etc etc. people just dont care anymore...

when you have to be a pallbearer at your mates funeral .. (because of a car accident)
gives you a better perspective on life.

i`m SICK TO DEATH of all these "drivers" (insert most crashed rex`s,c/doors) taking themselves and often innocent people out.
phew !

[tex]

I can't be bothered, suffice to say I am not deriving any satisfaction out of witnessing Australia's slippery slide to....., well, a place I don't think I'll enjoy residing in years to come.

Lucky country will be in the past tence due to so many reasons.

Gives me a headache.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by GYRKIN GT

How do you stop the problem? (4) Caught driving again, even without involving speed, 5 years picking up soap again and the car is crushed (no matter who owns it)

Even your GT?

[XRQTR]

Yes I agree, cars should be speed limited to 95km/h as soon as a caravan is hitched up to it, that way they won't speed up in the overtaking lanes just so the "big bad truck" doesn't pass.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GYRKIN GT

Speed limiters on cars/bikes? No way! Never, ever!

However, in saying that, I imagine anyone with even half an interest in performance vehicles would suffer palpitations each time he/she reads about some lunatic exceeding the speed limit by ridiculous amounts.

The scary part for the responsible performance vehicle enthusiast is the unfortunate link, in the majority of cases, of ridiculous speed and vehicle type. That is, huge speed and performance vehicle normally go hand in hand.

The reality is the figure of 222km/h in a 100 zone is quite irrelevant. Why? Because 170 km/h in a 100 zone would be equally as dangerous! Once a vehicle is travelling at those speeds it becomes academic. Therefore, something like a Toyota Yaris, capable of doing 170km/h, is equally a weapon. But, typically, you don't find morons in mum's Yaris doing 170km/h in a 100 zone. It always comes back to the type of car and that's the problem.

How do you stop the problem? No easy answer is there. I believe the absolute majority of performance car people behave (most of the time) very responsibly. For those morons out there who can't behave themselves then-
(1) Go to gaol and not for a Hilton etc sentence, For speeds like we've been talking about, I mean gaol for 12 months minimum;
(2) Car is forfeited, no matter who owns it, and it's crushed;
(3) For those huge speeds, sorry, never allowed to drive again;
(4) Caught driving again, even without involving speed, 5 years picking up soap again and the car is crushed (no matter who owns it)

I suppose where I'm coming from is that I become slightly irritated when I hear about some moron doing 222km/h is his WRX and, because of that moron, some Prius lover will very likely suggest putting a speed limiter on MY GT!! Stuff the moron.

Only problem with this is......

What is the penalty for killing the police chasing you?
5 years in slot may as well be 15 years and if you kill the police you may get away........

In USA the penalty for rape was made the same as murder (execution).
All that happened was a huge increase in rape/murders as opposed to rape where the victim survived.
The rape penalty was lowered and the number of rape survivors increased.
But the total number of rapes (inc murders) did not vary all that much.

You have to be careful as not everyone has the same regard for human life or society and if you have nothing to lose you have nothing to care about.

P.S. can you tell me where your GT is so I can "borrow" it and have it crushed just for a bit of fun......does it still not matter who owns it.....

[T3man]

If the morons keep pushing the "speed kills" and if they can really convince everyone that it is true, then we will have all vehicles set at a speed limit of 40km/h. Because that is the lowest speed at which two cars can collide head-on and allow for passengers to survive.

[GYRKIN GT]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Even your GT?

HaHa, Very good.

Shall I bite? Ah, no thanks.

[pottery beige]

lots of nannys around here.........