NSW child seat laws risk lives: Volvo

Keepleft · 24-01-2010, 09:38 AM

23 January 10

Quote:

Car maker Volvo says new NSW child seat laws could cost lives or increase serious injuries to children involved in a car crash.

Drawing on data from independent crash tests and investigations of more than 4,500 crashes involving children, Volvo, known for its safety innovation, says allowing children as young as six months to face forward could lead to serious injuries and death due to the forces on the head and neck in an impact.

Volvo safety experts also say the NSW requirement, to be introduced on March 1, to keep children in a booster seat until they are seven should be extended to the age of 10 to ensure the correct positioning of the car's seatbelt across the child's body, The Sydney Morning Herald reports.

"The recommendation of turning forward-facing is wrong, according to our research and knowledge," said Lotta Jakobsen, the technical leader, biomechanics, injury and accident prevention analysis at Volvo Car Safety Centre.

Volvo says the head of a newborn baby accounts for almost half its body weight and that a child's neck muscles and ligaments cannot support the head in the event of an impact until at least four years of age. It says a 50km/h crash can exert a 100kg force on the head of a six-month-old baby.

Ms Jakobsen said rear-facing child seats are five times safer for those aged under four.

"Kids should go rearward-facing until three to four years," she said, adding that most serious crashes are frontal.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/6711...k-lives-volvo/

This has some national implication and we have additional ARR adoption upcoming. Will seek RTA and medical feedback.

**Mechan1k** · 24-01-2010, 10:06 AM

Interesting ... but the question is to be raised ... how do you fit a 4 year old into a rearward facing child seat/restraint.

The problem with little ones is actually getting them into the seat ... and keep them faced that way.

My little one at 7 months of age couldn't stand being rear-ward facing at that age and kept trying to twist out of the seat to look forward (even with him strapped in firmly) .... I'd find that in the event of an accident with him trying to squirm around with his neck twisted trying to look forward would be more detrimental to him than to have him strapped in correctly ... facing forward.

Another thing is Volvo go on a well behaved crash test baby/child dummy that is nice and quiet and doesn't complain.

Bushbasher · 24-01-2010, 03:47 PM

Obviously written by someone who hasn't actually lived with and transported a live squirming screaming child in the back of a car. My daughter screamed like a banshee at 9 months on an extended trip till we turned her forward facing so she could see something other than the roof and cargo barrier and our son was even worse and demanded to be turned around at 4 months of age if in the car for more than 5 minutes. The little bugga couldn't even hold up his head properly and in the end at 6 months we relented and ended up packing pillows and blankets around his head for protection and support and turning him round cos we couldn't stand the noise and complaining any more. What do you recon the chances are of keeping a 4yr old facing backwards for any length of time even if you could find a way of fixing a booster seat in that way. Sounds fine in theory but just wouldn't work in the real world without shackles and sedation, lol.

And consider this, in our wagon, my 5yr old sits in a booster with the thinnest back support I can find but a good tall base so that the belt sits correctly and her feet are already wedged into the back of the front seat if I'm driving and I'm being constantly kicked in the back. There's no way a 10 yr old is going to sit comfortably in a booster in your average Falcondoore as their feet will wind up wedged between the seats. Things are better in my Fairlane with the extra leg room but I have 4.5 star rated boosters in there for my kids and my 3 yr old son, already, is kicking my back without trying.

Bushbasher

**El Venom** · 24-01-2010, 03:51 PM

I agree in some way with these laws and even though I am not in nsw, qld has just put in similar laws as well. Now the reccommend that children stay in booster seats untill 7 years old. Now according to my family gp my kids are the average height and weight of a 6 year old and they arent even 4 yet, so what I meant to do in 12-24 months time when my twin daughters get near to exceeding the the manufactures limitation on there seats?

Mr Hardware · 24-01-2010, 05:44 PM

well said bushbasher
sometimes theoretical correctness is competely outweighed by real-world facts of life.

GK · 24-01-2010, 06:54 PM

Just bought another full car seat for the 6 year old, to have one in both Falcons. She used to sit on the smaller booster, but near the window, so I wanted another full seat that offers more side impact protection.

We found that although we have a "H" harness, it doesn't fit properly in the wagon. I think it has to do with the anchor point being on the floor of the cargo area. I moved it to the sedan and it now fits nicely. I guess the anchor point being on the parcel shelf now means that the belt for the harness sits horizontal rather than vertical as in the wagon.

Anyone else found this?

The new car seat has 2 guides on each side to allow for correct positioning of the belt. One is high for older kids and one low for younger. I sat both kids in the seat and tried the belt before actually driving home yesterday with the booster. It works fine with the existing lap sash belt and is formed to make the belts work in a way that is anti-submarining. A good thing, as the older car seat doesn't have this.

In the final analysis, kids are all different shapes and sizes and products allow for a general fit. I guess you fit your kids in the best you can and pray that nothing horrible happens.

GK

Bucknaked · 24-01-2010, 07:23 PM

We had our boy out of his car seat by the age of 4 and off the booster before 5.

prydey · 24-01-2010, 07:43 PM

maybe the car manufacturers need to look at making the adjustable height on the seatbelts more versatile instead of making impracticle suggestions to parents.

i'm 6'2 and even with the adjuster right down low, the belt still goes over my shoulder. they need to make it so it can be adjusted further and also incorporat them into the rear seats somehow.

bigdude1011 · 24-01-2010, 08:08 PM

Deleted, read next post

bigdude1011 · 24-01-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

maybe the car manufacturers need to look at making the adjustable height on the seatbelts more versatile

Sadly, AFAIK, Volvo doesn't use adjustable anchors. They only use long slits in the b-pillar

I don't think I was ever in a booster (or at least after I was 3), but I have always been a tall, fat kid (even though I was the only kid in preschool with rabbit food in my lunchbox).

GK351 · 24-01-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

We found that although we have a "H" harness, it doesn't fit properly in the wagon. I think it has to do with the anchor point being on the floor of the cargo area. I moved it to the sedan and it now fits nicely. I guess the anchor point being on the parcel shelf now means that the belt for the harness sits horizontal rather than vertical as in the wagon.

Anyone else found this?

GK

I have the same problem, 98 series 1 au wagon anchor point on the floor does not do its job.
Luckily i just use it to get too and from the yard where i park my truck and just have it in their as an emergency.

Intresting to see how a 4 year old would go in a rearward faceing seat.

XR Martin · 24-01-2010, 09:05 PM

They should wear Hans devices...

Mr Hardware · 24-01-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

i'm 6'2 and even with the adjuster right down low, the belt still goes over my shoulder. they need to make it so it can be adjusted further and also incorporat them into the rear seats somehow.

Are you reclining like a loungechair?
I'm 5'11 and i have the height adjuster halfway and my shoulder puts a slight bend in the belt. Although my mates do refer to my driving position as 'racecar driver style' rather than the usual silly australian arms-fully-extended style

prydey · 25-01-2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Are you reclining like a loungechair?
I'm 5'11 and i have the height adjuster halfway and my shoulder puts a slight bend in the belt. Although my mates do refer to my driving position as 'racecar driver style' rather than the usual silly australian arms-fully-extended style

if i have my arms straight, i can probably touch the dash. definitely don't have a 'loungechair' style. maybe i'm long in the leg and have the seat back further than you?

Bushbasher · 25-01-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

We found that although we have a "H" harness, it doesn't fit properly in the wagon. I think it has to do with the anchor point being on the floor of the cargo area. I moved it to the sedan and it now fits nicely. I guess the anchor point being on the parcel shelf now means that the belt for the harness sits horizontal rather than vertical as in the wagon.

Anyone else found this?GK

I never found this, as long as the harness extension was adjusted properly so the harness straps fit over the shoulders and extended down to the lap part of the sash belt it could all be cinched up snugly with the dividing webbing right in the middle of their chest and the sash part of the car belt tucked into the hip hole with the lap part of the belt. I just made sure I pulled the lap belt up tight to locate the 2 shoulder harness straps snugly before tucking the sash section away where the lap belt sat and used that metal belt gripper/binder that comes with the harness to hold the belts together and stop it loosening (I hope that makes sense). Maybe it has something to do with the brand and design of the booster you are using. The one I had - had 3 holes at neck height to feed the harness belt through so you could adjust it to suit. I had to ditch the harness 6 months ago cos my lad was too big for it and we were struggling to get the whole thing over his head in both cars.

Bushbasher

xbgs351 · 25-01-2010, 11:14 AM

I still can't get over that fact the Isofix standard for attaching child seats isn't approved yet in Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofix

Keepleft · 25-01-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

I still can't get over that fact the Isofix standard for attaching child seats isn't approved yet in Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isofix

It is - permissible under ADR, all part of our ongoing UNECE Global Technical Rules for Motor Vehicles harmonization effort.

You will see ISOFIX in most new cars, and I insist on it personally.

I do like the AS high tether strap too, this was adopted INTO the UNECE!

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 5/05 –
Anchorages for Seatbelts) 2006

5. REQUIREMENTS
5.1. Vehicles subject to the requirements of this standard must be fitted with
anchorages for seatbelt (safety-belt) assemblies complying with the requirements
of Appendix A, except as varied by Section 6 Exemptions and Alternative
Procedures.
5.2. - Appendix A is a document compiled by the Department of Transport and Regional
Services, consisting of the United Nations - Economic Commission for Europe
Regulation No. 14 – UNIFORM PROVISIONS CONCERNING THE
APPROVAL OF VEHICLES WITH REGARD TO SAFETY-BELT
ANCHORAGES, ISOFIX ANCHORAGES SYSTEMS AND ISOFIX TOP
TETHER ANCHORAGES,

(See also 6.2 and 7 of the Pdf).

ADR 5/05 of 2006

xbgs351 · 25-01-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

It is - permissible under ADR, all part of our ongoing UNECE Global Technical Rules for Motor Vehicles harmonization effort.

You will see ISOFIX in most new cars, and I insist on it personally.

I do like the AS high tether strap too, this was adopted INTO the UNECE!

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 5/05 –
Anchorages for Seatbelts) 2006

5. REQUIREMENTS
5.1. Vehicles subject to the requirements of this standard must be fitted with
anchorages for seatbelt (safety-belt) assemblies complying with the requirements
of Appendix A, except as varied by Section 6 Exemptions and Alternative
Procedures.
5.2. - Appendix A is a document compiled by the Department of Transport and Regional
Services, consisting of the United Nations - Economic Commission for Europe
Regulation No. 14 – UNIFORM PROVISIONS CONCERNING THE
APPROVAL OF VEHICLES WITH REGARD TO SAFETY-BELT
ANCHORAGES, ISOFIX ANCHORAGES SYSTEMS AND ISOFIX TOP
TETHER ANCHORAGES,

(See also 6.2 and 7 of the Pdf).

ADR 5/05 of 2006

I'm glad to here that. Last year I tried to get an Isofix baby seat for my Isofix equiped car, but I couldn't find one available for sale in Australia and was informed that they didn't meet the Australian Standards.

**GasoLane** · 26-01-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

23 January 10

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/6711...k-lives-volvo/

This has some national implication and we have additional ARR adoption upcoming. Will seek RTA and medical feedback.

Good to see well researched Australian Journalism is alive and well....not!

It looks like they lifted a fair bit of this from here...(the translated version) http://translate.google.com.au/trans...%3Den%26sa%3DG complete with the incorrect spelling of her surname - Jakobsson NOT Jakobsen -

One part they neglected to print was the original nettavisen date........ 'Published 14.04.07 12:04 | Last updated 16.04.07 09:24'