Where are we headed?

[troppo]

I've been thinking a lot lately about life in general and it seems to me the quality of people is slipping. By that I mean we are becoming more self centred and less able to empathise with our fellow man.
For some reason the film "Class of 1984" popped into my head while watching another report of a high school shooting in the US and I couldn't help wondering, are we there yet? For those that don't know it it was a fictional future story about schools becoming war zones between teachers and students released around 1981 or 82. In a way it's based on the increase of personal freedoms to a point where "I do what I want" becomes anarchy.
Then I got thinking about Orwell's 1984 which is the exact opposite with regard to personal freedoms.

When I compared those to todays world, it seems we have the worst bits of both. Decreasing general public freedom and increasing govt abilities to spy on the populace courtesy of a war on terrorism that seems to have no end in sight. Even relatively minor stuff like spanking your kids puts you at the mercy of the govt.
Then you have people (in the west at least) taking personal freedom to the point they will exercise their right regardless of how it impacts society around them. The "I do what I want" attitude is becoming more prevalent and not just among the young. As in the movie, usually when 2 people with this attitude have a disagreement, it turns into violence.

My theory is that people have become so self centred they don't even try to see another persons point of view anymore. People are so focussed on justifying their own actions they don't consider the other side of the fence at all. In a bigger sense, that same self centeredness is behind the general apathy that exists towards government. We vote for complete strangers (how many of us know our local and federal MP's personally?) to control every aspect of our daily lives yet we don't really care what happens with regards to laws or taxation or who does it as long as it doesn't hit us personally too hard.

Where do you think we are going?

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by troppo

My theory is that people have become so self centred they don't even try to see another persons point of view anymore. People are so focussed on justifying their own actions they don't consider the other side of the fence at all.

+1

I try hard to empathize and put myself in other peoples shoes especially when i disagree with them, but when people are continually unable or unwilling to even try to do the same it makes it hard not to react negatively.

No idea where we are heading though, i'm not that insightful

EDIT: That probably makes me look like an ******** but i do respect other people and i'm a good person in general, honest

[InfernoSR]

I agree... but the way we are heading isnt the best for most... the attitude to toughen the up is a problem also... there used to be the saying "like it or leave it", now days it seems to be "like it because i said so" attitude...

[ELtim]

Society is always on the downfall. And it will continue on this downfall till the idea of community is diminished completely.

[opto]

The key factors are young people arent taught discipline and respect, negative peer goup pressure and the government sheltering the young when it is not necessary.

Generally, society is screwed and getting worse.

[WILDB]

People's attitudes and behavior are continually going down hill. It seems that people just don't care about anyone/anything but themselves and their possessions. I sometimes regret working in retail because of the abuse that people dish me up. I had some woman today that was extremely abusive to me and when I asked her why she was behaving like this she said "because I feel like it, it makes me feel better." Sure it does..... :

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by opto

The key factors are young people arent taught discipline and respect, negative peer goup pressure and the government sheltering the young when it is not necessary.

Generally, society is screwed and getting worse.

Yep. Just think in 20 years when they're adults and their kids are twice as bad. The world will be a sad place to live.

[Keepleft]

The western democratic world has been under sustained systematic attack for 34 plus years, it is little wonder the results.

[vanman_75]

yep those people that wont even answer when you say hello /good morning get me wound up ! technology keeps people at home you use to visit friends and go to movies now we type on computers and watch our own home theatres , no social skills it answers so many things. poor fitness , obesity,depression etc , i think i will have another rum !

[HLC]

Originally Posted by WILDB

People's attitudes and behavior are continually going down hill. It seems that people just don't care about anyone/anything but themselves and their possessions. I sometimes regret working in retail because of the abuse that people dish me up. I had some woman today that was extremely abusive to me and when I asked her why she was behaving like this she said "because I feel like it, it makes me feel better." Sure it does..... :

i work at maccas, and when customers give me grief, i give it back.

people may think im a for doing so, but im not copping abuse for no reason and for someone to feel better. my managers dont care if i give it back, and more often than not, they will too within reason. frankly, the customer is not always right, and i make it known if they are not.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by HLC

i work at maccas, and when customers give me grief, i give it back.

people may think im a for doing so, but im not copping abuse for no reason and for someone to feel better. my managers dont care if i give it back, and more often than not, they will too within reason. frankly, the customer is not always right, and i make it known if they are not.

I agree with your treatment towards arrogant customers. Personally i treat others the way i myself want to be treated. Dosent always work but hey' Thats Life.

[WILDB]

Continuing on about what I was saying about people not having any respect for other people's belongings I was sitting in my car the other day sending an SMS after work and this woman comes flying into the carpark next to me and slams her door into mine. I had the window down and said what the F*%& do you think you are doing? and she replied "who cares its your car not mine and its just a Ford." JUST A FORD! I had to restrain myself from taking the key out of the ignition and making it her car's problem.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by HLC

i work at maccas, and when customers give me grief, i give it back.

people may think im a for doing so, but im not copping abuse for no reason and for someone to feel better. my managers dont care if i give it back, and more often than not, they will too within reason. frankly, the customer is not always right, and i make it known if they are not.

You think thats fun, just try working in a bar. Whenever someone would give me lip, I would just cut em off! If they kept going, we could get security to escort them out. Oh the power!

[InfernoSR]

Originally Posted by WILDB

Continuing on about what I was saying about people not having any respect for other people's belongings I was sitting in my car the other day sending an SMS after work and this woman comes flying into the carpark next to me and slams her door into mine. I had the window down and said what the F*%& do you think you are doing? and she replied "who cares its your car not mine and its just a Ford." JUST A FORD! I had to restrain myself from taking the key out of the ignition and making it her car's problem.

Just remember Karma... hopefully one day a moose will land on her bonnet...

[JMO]

Originally Posted by WILDB

Continuing on about what I was saying about people not having any respect for other people's belongings I was sitting in my car the other day sending an SMS after work and this woman comes flying into the carpark next to me and slams her door into mine. I had the window down and said what the F*%& do you think you are doing? and she replied "who cares its your car not mine and its just a Ford." JUST A FORD! I had to restrain myself from taking the key out of the ignition and making it her car's problem.

If it were me, she wouldn't have had much of a car left when she came back. Fair enough if she had said sorry, no problem accidents happen, but to write it off as just being a Ford... I would've let her car have it :evil3:

[WILDB]

Originally Posted by BLUEPRINT

Just remember Karma... hopefully one day a moose will land on her bonnet...

I was thinking more along the line that I wasn't going to lower my standards to her level. I was furious - not at the fact that she had opened the door (well not fully anyway) but at the attitude. Thankfully there was no damage to the XR.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by WILDB

I was furious - not at the fact that she had opened the door (well not fully anyway) but at the attitude.

Yep that's the sort of thing I mean.
This morning was a classic. I pulled up next to a young bloke at the lights, looked over at him and shook my head. He wound down his passenger window and enquired as to what was my problem. I replied I didn't have one, that I knew which side was my left and that I understood both parts of "keep left"...how about u? Well, stopped stuffing his face and started screaming at me how it was impossible to change lanes and keep left while stopped at a stop light...with a few profanities thrown in for good measure.
I clamly waited for him to finish before pointing out I'd been watching him attempt to drag a commy wago from the previous 3 sets of lights and failed dismally and that I saw him cut across 3 lanes in order to get pole position for the third attempt. I also pointed out that I had time and room to move to the left lane after overtaking between traffic lights, so him being in front of me had even more time. And some profanities returned.
Well, that resulted in another tirade until the lights went green and old mate then decided to demonstrate his lack of IQ by trying to drag the XR....in a camry, no less, all the while still screaming god knows what. I kept alongside him and just laughed long and hard while asking what he was trying to do before he turned off at the next set of lights.

I seem to have had a string of these sorts of things recently, hence the thread. It's comforting to know I'm not alone...I was feeling like a grumpy old man there for a while.

[BFYOOT]

Its sort of hidden more than in the past, but there is also massive differences in classes atm. The way the country is being run and operated, the rich are getting richer, the bludgers are getting what they want when they want, and the "average" working population are getting one step forward,two steps back. There is no encouragement to work harder/2 jobs, because you lose more. I live in an area where many of the "upper-class" richer city people come to retire, or for weekend getaways. They come in to town in there Mercs/BMW's/Porsches etc and then treat you like they run the town, and we're just dumb-*** country bumpkins. I have the utmost respect for those who have worked hard, made the right choices and done well financially, but there is no need to show it, or act like it.

[thefargo]

“Today’s youth are unbelievably horrible. They disrespect their parents. They are rude to their teachers. They use disgusting language and crave easy sex. They have no respect for even the most basic forms of authority. They are lazy and avoid hard work. The world really is at risk from their bad attitudes. I truly pity the future of the planet.”

Socrates 235 BC

[tapeworm]

Over population is a bit of a crisis which in the end contributes to more tension, problems etc. We don't have enough water yet we import 170,ooo people every year, how f*%ked up can the government get? Looking forward to future race related/religion issues down the track too, lol.

[daniel_rossy]

Originally Posted by HLC

i work at maccas, and when customers give me grief, i give it back.

people may think im a for doing so, but im not copping abuse for no reason and for someone to feel better. my managers dont care if i give it back, and more often than not, they will too within reason. frankly, the customer is not always right, and i make it known if they are not.

Word.
I got abused by a regular customer tonight at maccas because i accidently gave her a large latte instead of a small.
I just said listen, it has been absolutely flat out all day and a customer complaining about me making a little mistake, because i grabbed the wrong cup is the last thing i need. I said, get over it we all make mistakes, seriously give us all a break. (she complains if her coffee is too strong all the time, she always asks for half strenght)

And another time a lady was complaining to my fellow collegue about how she waited ten minutes to line up and my collegue shift was over half an hour ago and how she just walked off. i wasnt working but i just said, listen, im a crew trainer here and it has been absolutely flat out all day because as you know it is our grand opening of mccafe and the start of a long weekend. My friend here has worked since 5.00am (time then was about 3ish) without a break over 15minutes and we have broken sales recordes since the store opened 10 years ago. Now as far as im conserned you cant tell me that after skipping half her break and working two hours more than she should and also that she is copping abuse from customers all day, you have no right to say this to our new cashier after 3 months of working here and your saying she is rude to leave her register to go home to see her family on good friday! and you dont have the curtercy to wait another 10 minutes so you can get your food?
'No this is suppost to be fast food!!!!!!'
Well as far as im concerned you can either wait in line like the rest of the customers here, or get out.
(rant off)
I can see that she is hungry and no one likes to wait, but i can tell you now, after working in sales for 6 months and mcdonalds for 3 years, everyone is human, if they make a mistake, get over it, im sure you have made a few also and just be nice, no one likes copping sshhhit from customers.

[daniel_rossy]

Originally Posted by WILDB

Continuing on about what I was saying about people not having any respect for other people's belongings I was sitting in my car the other day sending an SMS after work and this woman comes flying into the carpark next to me and slams her door into mine. I had the window down and said what the F*%& do you think you are doing? and she replied "who cares its your car not mine and its just a Ford." JUST A FORD! I had to restrain myself from taking the key out of the ignition and making it her car's problem.

oh my god im like imagining just keying her door this very minute.
that would make me soooo angry...

[WILDB]

I don't necessarily agree about it being an issue JUST with young people because in honesty most of the people who I encounter who's attitudes are pathetic - in fact (and this may be because I am only young and they treat me better than their elders) the most disrespectful, abusive, arrogant and rude people are those in their 30s-50s and in particular (in my experience anyway) women tend to be worse than men for this. It really is sad to see how people are now behaving because I was brought up to have respect for people and their belongings, but it would seem that some parents just don't care about how their children behave.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by thefargo

“Today’s youth are unbelievably horrible. They disrespect their parents. They are rude to their teachers. They use disgusting language and crave easy sex. They have no respect for even the most basic forms of authority. They are lazy and avoid hard work. The world really is at risk from their bad attitudes. I truly pity the future of the planet.”

Socrates 235 BC

Good quote. It certainly gives the impression things have always been that way....but have they?
You could find a dozen similar quotes from last century or even the 19th century, I think we've been on the same decline since then. But the same decline all the way back to Ancient Greece? I don't think so.
At some point in between, society clamped down on such behaviour and refused to tolerate it. I'm sure there were simliar opinions on rudeness etc voiced during Victorian times but I'd also say there's a world of difference between what was considered rude during those times versus today. Even Ancient Greece was a progressive society relative to Victorian England, IMO.

[Poetic Justice]

Where are we headed?

Well with internet mediums being so quickly growing (programs like MSN, websites like MySpace, Facebook) young adults are learning to be able to say what they want and hide behind text (keyboard warriors, anyone?) which teaches them wrong lessons about how to use communication in life.

I believe that very problem can filter through to arguments with people you dislike even to intimacy between yourself and your significant other.

I worry about that issue for the future. I believe it has had an impact on my life.

[daniel_rossy]

Originally Posted by WILDB

I don't necessarily agree about it being an issue JUST with young people because in honesty most of the people who I encounter who's attitudes are pathetic - in fact (and this may be because I am only young and they treat me better than their elders) the most disrespectful, abusive, arrogant and rude people are those in their 30s-50s and in particular (in my experience anyway) women tend to be worse than men for this. It really is sad to see how people are now behaving because I was brought up to have respect for people and their belongings, but it would seem that some parents just don't care about how their children behave.

Completely Agreed.
Some parents have dug themselfs into a hole here. I know 14year olds who smoke and 13year olds who drink regually and their parents dont care and let them rome free.
Now 20years ago, if someone got seen with a smoke at age 14 they would be frowned apon. Now not many care.

Some kids annoy teachers, some adults dont have teachers to annoy.
Im at teenager, i am sometimes angry with my parents and can understand why some dont respect them as much as parents think they should. This falls back onto what the parent expect, but im not going to go into this.

Kids these days, have less respect towards parents, but more towards non-relatives. But some customers i have seen really need to step back and take a good look at who they are talking to and what they are saying and complaining about.

I am honestly saying this, i have not have/heard one single complaint directly to a fellow worker or myself in 3 years i have worked at mcdonalds from who appears under the age of 21 (apart from the few sniggering comments to their mates). I have seen 30year old men jump the counter to serve them selfs when it was busy, randoms walking out the back of the restraunt, bums stealing food out of rubbish bins, randoms throwing icecreams at windows, people calling fellow workers sl*ts (who are complete strangers) and threatening to fight coworkers outside who are complete strangers also. And these people dont include the drunk/drugged up customers. And these are all people atleast over the age of 25. We dont have bouncers to deal with this obviosuly, we have to do it. And just for the note employee's do take this to heart. People do walk off the job, sware at customers, tell them to get out, and some do sit in the office and cry for ages when they are suppost to be working and cry after work and one has developed a mental illness (which this was a slight factor from) because of the stuff people put us through, which is just rediculous.

[ROOSTA]

Very interesting to see so many other thinking along the same lines as i have for the past few months.. It is so frustrating that their is a major lack of respect for fellow man from so many people.. Working in retail i also get a fair share of wat i like to call carntstomers.. Now i know this is a very negative term but thats just the way it is..

I am the kind of person who generally avoids conflict as it is usually over something small and relatively insignificant but when pressed i will stand my ground for what i believe to be correct.. This has got me into several heated arguments with customers, the result of which while i have been right, has led to warning being issued and customers pampered over.. Such is the fear of higher management of legal action against the company.. And we are talking about items generally worth less than $20.. In my experience in business it takes a team to succeed, and part of being a team is backing a fellow member up when required.. I am just about fed up with this and other small issues coming from higher management to the point that i no longer enjoy my job and have been looking for employment elsewhere.

I also have another theory with regard to the problems of society but i believe stating it on a public forum may result in major anger so i'll keep it to myself.. FOR THE MOMENT..

Cheers,
Nik

[Paxton]

For the McDonald's employees - there has always been a culture inside McDonald's to give back what you receive. That is; if customers are rude to you, give them back double. It was the same when I was there in the early 90's, and from what I see when I go there, isn't any different.

As for society, I remember when I was young, and if I stepped out of line, I was punished. Whether it be the belt, wooden spoon, hand, or just not allowed to leave my room, I didn't like any of it, and learned that if you are good, you don't get disciplined. Kids these days don't have any positive (or negative) reinforcement. This is a big problem, as many, many of them will never know where their limits are, and these values will be passed onto the next generation. I don't care what anybody says, if my kids misbehave in public, they're going to be disciplined. I don't know anybody who lets their kids get away with murder, but those who do, need their heads read.

[Kryton]

"for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"
this is the most important law of physics.
this is the reason society is how it is today, it is because this single law has not been adhered to when it comes to discipline.
people have grown up and been allowed to believe that they can do what they please without consequence.

[ROOSTA]

And thus the rest of us must suffer.. The rule Davway mentions cannot be broken..

Cheers,
Nik