Whats wrong with our sport

jweb · 24-03-2008, 10:59 AM

For those who suggested i was a Hoon in the previous thread that has currently been closed in regards to Police cars,i will start by saying i am not a Hoon.
In saying i tempt to race them i meant,rev at the lights and speed up until the speed limit.quotes like its "people like you who wreck the sport,and give it a bad image",are ludicrous,i just want to here the great sound of the FPV's.

I race on race days on closed circuit tracks,And race motocross for the fact that i get it out of my system and do not do it on the road.It is a waste of fuel on the road,isnt safe,and there is a chance of losing you're license or endangering the life of other's in the process.
So i put the question our there,what is wrong with our sport?as viewed by you or the media?.
How can we fix the image of our sport?

Falcon4L · 24-03-2008, 11:07 AM

I assume we are talking about motor racing in general? I don't see any problems with the sport at all really, I also havent heard any bad media about it.

Except for the residents of albert park who just want to have a sook.

jweb · 24-03-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon4L

I assume we are talking about motor racing in general? I don't see any problems with the sport at all really, I also havent heard any bad media about it.

Except for the residents of albert park who just want to have a sook.

Yes i we are talking about motorsport in general up to the image that "we" car enthusiasts have.The Media has Named Motor racing as an aggrevator to Street racing,i believe this is wrong,and i do not think motor racing has ever done such a thing.I think it is movies like "2 fast 2 furious" and the like.

4Vman · 24-03-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweb

For those who suggested i was a Hoon in the previous thread that has currently been closed in regards to Police cars,i will start by saying i am not a Hoon.
In saying i tempt to race them i meant,rev at the lights and speed up until the speed limit.quotes like its "people like you who wreck the sport,and give it a bad image",are ludicrous,i just want to here the great sound of the FPV's.

I race on race days on closed circuit tracks,And race motocross for the fact that i get it out of my system and do not do it on the road.It is a waste of fuel on the road,isnt safe,and there is a chance of losing you're license or endangering the life of other's in the process.
So i put the question our there,what is wrong with our sport?as viewed by you or the media?.
How can we fix the image of our sport?

What sport are you talking about for starters????

I dont think circuit racing has an image problem at all, drag racing seems to get asscociated a bit with street racing though.

By the way, street racing isnt a sport either..

jweb · 24-03-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What sport are you talking about for starters????

To give you a head start street racing isnt a sport either..

I see you suggest "street racing" in regards to my previous thread,i do not street race and i see many people misunderstood what the meaning of "tempt" was in the context that it was written.I am talking about "motor sport",and i do not believe "street racing"-which endangers lives of innocent people should ever be considered as part of our sport.

4Vman · 24-03-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpr_esp

no its a lifestyle hehe sorry had to say it.

Its an indication of stupidity....

:

You won't last long around here openly admitting to participating in and condoning street racing...

Steffo · 24-03-2008, 11:49 AM

Ah yes, Ford Forums, the forum of saints who have never broken a road rule in their lives... oh wait a minute!

I'll never stop doubling over in fits of laughter when people on here go on about being responsible and this that, then when you meet them in real life, they have no problem doubling the speed limit in 60 zones like its a casual thing to do.

fmc351 · 24-03-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweb

Yes i we are talking about motorsport in general up to the image that "we" car enthusiasts have.The Media has Named Motor racing as an aggrevator to Street racing,i believe this is wrong,and i do not think motor racing has ever done such a thing.I think it is movies like "2 fast 2 furious" and the like.

IMO both CAN act as a stimulant for the mindset, but they dont cause it, just as some violence on TV stimulates some violence in some people. Still cant blame that though, they would likely do so anyway.

IMO, where "too fast too furious' causes a problem thats not quite the same with racing is the sense its more fashionable or a part of the 'generation' to do as they see, like having an iPod. The boy racers with no skill, or money or brains who thinks the stuff they see in the movie is physically possible and delude themselves public roads make great tracks. He buys the 95 Hyundai Excel (insert VN, EA whatever here, its worse when they have money for a WRX etc), whacks on some cheap mags, a 10,000 rpm tacho, a canon exhaust, practices on the Playstation, trains by watching the movie 100 times, and shows off with his mates in the car and kills them. Youre just not cool if you dont, you dont need to do it well, just look the part is enough.

Leaving drag strips many do act the clown as they leave which would associate the sport with the mentality, but thats the too fast too furious mentality coming out IMO, and the track exit is just the location. But this has always happened (even before TFTF), theres always at least one who needs to show off, its just more people are into the 'scene' due to the popularity of the 'culture'.

In my day it was Running on Empty, Mad Max etc. The culture was always popular, but the preparedness to input the dollars was not so prevalent.

**russellw** · 24-03-2008, 12:08 PM

I'm not going to close this thread at this stage but if it deviates into further discussion about street racing then it will end up removed.

The question raised is a valid one.

We need to remember that the vast majority of the motoring public are not enthusiasts - they are more than content with their 4 cylinder appliance Camolla and merely select their vehicles based on habit, family requirements or fashion. This may well be a bad thing to us but it is the lifeblood of the industry.

To these people there is little point in racing of any kind. You see them in the Corporate marquees at most events, present only because it is a place to be seen rather than for any love of or even interest in the sport.

That they are then bombarded with horror stories of anti social (and all too often tragic) road based activities by the daily fish wrappers, their chosen news bulletin or one of the so called current affairs beat ups, only serves to amend that disinterest into a dislike.

Unfortunately, everyone who then cuts them off in traffic, drives a little quicker than them or engages in a traffic light grand prix, merely adds to that dislike of any form of competitive motor sport. That it is also now considered to be wasting precious non renewable resources is hardly going to endear it further in their minds.

It is this larger mass of the populace that shapes the fate of all of us. They are the ones who will not bleat at further encroachments on our driving freedoms, nor complain about harsher penalties or even raise a tear if further bans are put in place that remove higher performance vehicles from the planet and every time someone drives anti socially on a public road they are doing their little bit to ensure that all of the above will happen.

You see, it isn't some unknown "them" who create the problem. It is us.
I read a thread here about someone being carved up in traffic, then watch the 40 anti social responses and tales of similar incidents and realise that we actually don't have any chance of reversing these trends. We, who like to believe we are good drivers, are all too often simply arrogant in our approach to other "lesser skilled" road users and continue to provide them with the ammunition and the outlook that they need to hang us with in the course of time.

When that happens, it will not be the fault of the Government or the legislature. It will be firmly ours and ours alone.

If we wish to demonstrate our skills behind the wheel there are a whole range of events and opportunities to do so in a manner that is not going to cause angst for the majority of the citizenry going about their daily business. On public roads we need to be cognisant of the skills gap and make allowances for other drivers - perhaps even going so far as to show them a little courtesy from time to time and then perhaps their view of us will not be quite so negative. It is likely a forlorn hope but it is the only means by which we will not be legislated out of existence.

Cheers
Russ

fmc351 · 24-03-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

I'm not going to close this thread at this stage but if it deviates into further discussion about street racing then it will end up removed.

The question raised is a valid one.

We need to remember that the vast majority of the motoring public are not enthusiasts - they are more than content with their 4 cylinder appliance Camolla and merely select their vehicles based on habit, family requirements or fashion. This may well be a bad thing to us but it is the lifeblood of the industry.

To these people there is little point in racing of any kind. You see them in the Corporate marquees at most events, present only because it is a place to be seen rather than for any love of or even interest in the sport.

That they are then bombarded with horror stories of anti social (and all too often tragic) road based activities by the daily fish wrappers, their chosen news bulletin or one of the so called current affairs beat ups, only serves to amend that disinterest into a dislike.

Unfortunately, everyone who then cuts them off in traffic, drives a little quicker than them or engages in a traffic light grand prix, merely adds to that dislike of any form of competitive motor sport. That it is also now considered to be wasting precious non renewable resources is hardly going to endear it further in their minds.

It is this larger mass of the populace that shapes the fate of all of us. They are the ones who will not bleat at further encroachments on our driving freedoms, nor complain about harsher penalties or even raise a tear if further bans are put in place that remove higher performance vehicles from the planet and every time someone drives anti socially on a public road they are doing their little bit to ensure that all of the above will happen.

You see, it isn't some unknown "them" who create the problem. It is us.
I read a thread here about someone being carved up in traffic, then watch the 40 anti social responses and tales of similar incidents and realise that we actually don't have any chance of reversing these trends. We, who like to believe we are good drivers, are all too often simply arrogant in our approach to other "lesser skilled" road users and continue to provide them with the ammunition and the outlook that they need to hang us with in the course of time.

When that happens, it will not be the fault of the Government or the legislature. It will be firmly ours and ours alone.

If we wish to demonstrate our skills behind the wheel there are a whole range of events and opportunities to do so in a manner that is not going to cause angst for the majority of the citizenry going about their daily business. On public roads we need to be cognisant of the skills gap and make allowances for other drivers - perhaps even going so far as to show them a little courtesy from time to time and then perhaps their view of us will not be quite so negative. It is likely a forlorn hope but it is the only means by which we will not be legislated out of existence.

Cheers
Russ

Well said.

duaned · 24-03-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Ah yes, Ford Forums, the forum of saints who have never broken a road rule in their lives... oh wait a minute!

I'll never stop doubling over in fits of laughter when people on here go on about being responsible and this that, then when you meet them in real life, they have no problem doubling the speed limit in 60 zones like its a casual thing to do.

Couldn't agree more Steffo. You just have to do a search on some forum members who always pledge, "street racing is illegal" or, " you are an idiot if you race on the streets" etc. and you can plainly read about their own poor behavioural law breaking techniques in their own posts!

In Adelaide not a day goes by where I see an illegal drag race, burnout or whatever on public roads. Mostly commodore drivers with mags on the front and stockies on the rear? but whilst I am against hoons ( and their cars) isn't it drugs and achohol the biggest factor in road deaths, accidents and a % of hoon behaviour? As for the motorsport itself, I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. Obviously, we need to re-open our strip here in Adelaide, but there are plenty of other options around. I firmly believe 16-25 year olds should have a restriction in their licences to vehicles no larger than 4 cyls, non-turbo and a capacity of no more than 2 litres. Caught over that capacity results in instant disqualification without a genuine reason.

**Whoosha** · 24-03-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarby

Couldn't agree more Steffo. You just have to do a search on some forum members who always pledge, "street racing is illegal" or, " you are an idiot if you race on the streets" etc. and you can plainly read about their own poor behavioural law breaking techniques in their own posts!

In Adelaide not a day goes by where I see an illegal drag race, burnout or whatever on public roads. Mostly commodore drivers with mags on the front and stockies on the rear? but whilst I am against hoons ( and their cars) isn't it drugs and achohol the biggest factor in road deaths, accidents and a % of hoon behaviour? As for the motorsport itself, I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. Obviously, we need to re-open our strip here in Adelaide, but there are plenty of other options around. I firmly believe 16-25 year olds should have a restriction in their licences to vehicles no larger than 4 cyls, non-turbo and a capacity of no more than 2 litres. Caught over that capacity results in instant disqualification without a genuine reason.

Are you serious or what I dont normally comment oin theses threads but really do you think that hitting a Gum tree or god forbid another motorist at 100ks make any differance weather it a 4 6 or 8 cyl driven buy the same inexperiance driver .. Instead of all the stupid headline grabbing knee jerk reactions surely a better way would be a better education of the road and road craft along with better training before anyone obtains there license; and yes before you start I drive hard if it is safe and slow when its not and yes I have exeded the limits on occasion and been pinged for it so I am no saint but regardless of what you drive or how fast you go if your stupid about it things will go wrong ...... Whoosha

**GasoLane** · 24-03-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweb

In saying i tempt to race them i meant,rev at the lights and speed up until the speed limit..............................,i just want to here the great sound of the FPV's.

Ah so you just lure them into a sort of a race so you can show off your exhaust note in public

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweb

I race on race days on closed circuit tracks,And race motocross for the fact that i get it out of my system and do not do it on the road.

But by doing the 'tease them at the lights' sceniro you risk losing your license and therefore your CAMS license as well. Lotsa luck.

Unfortunately Joe public associates noisy/pretty/lowered cars on the road with motor sport, in much the same way that they associate drunken footballers at a nightclub with that code.

jweb · 24-03-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Ah so you just lure them into a sort of a race so you can show off your exhaust note in public

But by doing the 'tease them at the lights' sceniro you risk losing your license and therefore your CAMS license as well. Lotsa luck.

Unfortunately Joe public associates noisy/pretty/lowered cars on the road with motor sport, in much the same way that they associate drunken footballers at a nightclub with that code.

I ask you what is the point of having a nice car if you are not going to show it off.Why do we have performance cars for the roads?.
how bout we all drive Priuse's.I would rather Rev the car at the lights and get to here the rumble of a GTP or F6 next to me.
On the topic of what the thread is about,i believe v8 supercar drivers and the v8 super car series are create a good image of our sport.In comparison to football players Motor racing participants are saints,now i am not having ago at footballers i am just saying that you do not usually here of Motor racer's involved in the kind ove problems that footballers get themselves into.

Steffo · 24-03-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarby

Couldn't agree more Steffo. You just have to do a search on some forum members who always pledge, "street racing is illegal" or, " you are an idiot if you race on the streets" etc. and you can plainly read about their own poor behavioural law breaking techniques in their own posts!

In Adelaide not a day goes by where I see an illegal drag race, burnout or whatever on public roads. Mostly commodore drivers with mags on the front and stockies on the rear? but whilst I am against hoons ( and their cars) isn't it drugs and achohol the biggest factor in road deaths, accidents and a % of hoon behaviour? As for the motorsport itself, I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. Obviously, we need to re-open our strip here in Adelaide, but there are plenty of other options around. I firmly believe 16-25 year olds should have a restriction in their licences to vehicles no larger than 4 cyls, non-turbo and a capacity of no more than 2 litres. Caught over that capacity results in instant disqualification without a genuine reason.

Agree with the first bit of your post, but vehicle restrictions? I believe there shouldn't be any! This is supposed to be Australia, where you are free... not Saddam's Iraq, where you are free to do what you are told. We're still the only first world country, and possible only country, in the world that tells in some of its states what certain groups of its populace are allowed to drive. And it doesn't help. At all.

Besides, your legislation doesn't acheive anything...

My car - RenaultSport Clio 172. 2.0L, N/A, 124kW 200Nm. Mid 6s to 100km/h, mid to high 14s 1/4 mile. Hrm?

Its newer update - RenaultSport Clio 182. Same engine, up to 131kW 200Nm.

The new RenaultSport Clio 197 coming in June/July... same engine again, 145kW 215Nm now.

The Peugeot 206 GTi180... 2.0L 4-cyl N/A, 130kW 202Nm. Similar performance.

The Honda Integra VTi-R DC2, 1.8L 4-cyl N/A, 125kW 168Nm. Mid 7s to 100, mid 15s 1/4... similar to a BA XT.

The Honda Integra Type R DC2, 1.8L 4-cyl N/A, 141kW 178Nm. Mid 6s to 100, high 14s 1/4.

That just names a few...

Oh, how about this one... Lotus Elise Mk1 (now 30-35k), 1.8L 4-cyl N/A, 88kW, 675kg, 5.5 sec 0-100, 13.7 sec 1/4. Its N/A, its 4-cyl, its got less power then a 3.2 CFI EA... but it can beat an FPV GT to 100 and run with it down the quarter...

Such legislation is stupid anyway. What we need is for kids to actually learn to drive and to respect what cars can do. I imagine all states are similar, but the NSW learner driver system sucks. The test is so easy you could teach a chimpanzee to do it. Reverse park, three point turn, stop, go... there you go, drive now... you're "qualified." Riiight...

4Vman · 24-03-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

What we need is for kids to actually learn to drive and to respect what cars can do. I imagine all states are similar, but the NSW learner driver system sucks. The test is so easy you could teach a chimpanzee to do it. Reverse park, three point turn, stop, go... there you go, drive now... you're "qualified." Riiight...

The learner and p plate system as it stands works perfectly fine for the vast majority of people, the issue is not what is or isnt taught, (there's countless driver ed and defensive courses available) its what's missing between the ears of some young drivers... you can't "teach" intelligence.. but you need to be intelligent to learn...
The Euro's are on the right path: develop a test to identify those with a predisposition to being a tool behind the wheel and ban them..

flappist · 24-03-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The Euro's are on the right path: develop a test to identify those with a predisposition to being a tool behind the wheel and ban them..

What? And face a huge law suit from Toyota and Holden over the total destruction of their sales market?

4Vman · 24-03-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

What? And face a huge law suit from Toyota and Holden over the total destruction of their sales market?

good point...!

**GasoLane** · 24-03-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweb

I ask you what is the point of having a nice car if you are not going to show it off.Why do we have performance cars for the roads?.

I guess I think differently to you, I never bought 'performance' cars to show off to others, I had them because I liked them. Not to rush out to the first set of lights to show everyone else how 'cool' it sounded and/or looked.

Car shows - like the Wagga All Ford Day November 2008...blatant plug - are where you show it off.

Can you say 'Poseur'?

vanman_75 · 24-03-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The learner and p plate system as it stands works perfectly fine for the vast majority of people, the issue is not what is or isnt taught, (there's countless driver ed and defensive courses available) its what's missing between the ears of some young drivers... you can't "teach" intelligence.. but you need to be intelligent to learn...
The Euro's are on the right path: develop a test to identify those with a predisposition to being a tool behind the wheel and ban them..

i agree with most of what you say except "vast majority" to be brutaly honest of all my mates family etc ,there would be no more than 1 or 2 that can " really drive " as in knowing any car they get in they can drive it , not oh i cant coordinate a gear lever and my foot at the same time,safe drivers quite a few but not "good " i dare you to look around and tell me different, more driver training and dont let em loose till they got it , because at this rate we will have nill accident drivers become trainers,and that aint right. as for the sport , na nothing wrong with it, thats when you have your mate in the car egging you on ,or an ss /xr reving beside you ,idiots and the "smart 1s"still think gee i should show him , i love my motor sport but in no way think i should drift around corners , but have in brain bursts of youth. and you cant teach intelligence ,but you can teach right and wrong , how is the question? just look at the speeding stats for easter period they aint just hoons, these are parents ,doctors, police, i just dont know how it can be fixed ? and i dont think anyone here really will either.

**Falcon Coupe** · 24-03-2008, 09:14 PM

How did "Whats wrong with our sport" turn into another P plate restriction thread ?

If the topic has run it's course it may as well finish.

vanman_75 · 24-03-2008, 09:28 PM

your right i guess i dont know what hes really asking , sponsorship, bad publicity ,not enough jim beam girls ,lol all these things come and go i guess look at the brisy bullets no money no team , it all goes in fads, who thought bell bottoms would come back in ?

daniel_rossy · 24-03-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarby

Couldn't agree more Steffo. You just have to do a search on some forum members who always pledge, "street racing is illegal" or, " you are an idiot if you race on the streets" etc. and you can plainly read about their own poor behavioural law breaking techniques in their own posts!

In Adelaide not a day goes by where I see an illegal drag race, burnout or whatever on public roads. Mostly commodore drivers with mags on the front and stockies on the rear? but whilst I am against hoons ( and their cars) isn't it drugs and achohol the biggest factor in road deaths, accidents and a % of hoon behaviour? As for the motorsport itself, I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. Obviously, we need to re-open our strip here in Adelaide, but there are plenty of other options around. I firmly believe 16-25 year olds should have a restriction in their licences to vehicles no larger than 4 cyls, non-turbo and a capacity of no more than 2 litres. Caught over that capacity results in instant disqualification without a genuine reason.

I agree to an extent.
people i know have stanard lancers they get for 3grand, have no respect for them whatsoever and just use the handbreak around every second corner. Its not the size of your engine, its how you use it. If you get kids with nice cars, they treat them with respect (well some). Then they will start looking for other ways to have fun behind the wheel, so they use drugs when driving. I think that if you get caught hooning once, car lost for 1 week, second time, 6 months then 3rd it is automatically crushed no questions asked.