Independent Contractors

FordFan86 · 05-06-2006, 08:53 PM

I'm just doing an essay for legal studies (1st year uni) right now, regarding the new workplace relations. I'm going to mention them briefly but I can't find out "who" they are. I'm guessing most would be tradesmen or in another 'labour' type of job (aswell as IT etc). I have some fairly good references here regarding their roles and how they operate, aswell as some very conflicting references in regards to miniumum wages and IC's. I just can't find out who they are.
Do we have any on AFF? What do you do?

MO · 05-06-2006, 09:30 PM

The new workplace relations are a guide to expoliting and underpaying the workers of OZ.

In short under the new IR laws ...if I was to contract you to do a job for me whether it takes a year or one day....if I'm not happy with your work I can sack you without penalty...for no particular reason.

The new IR laws are designed to drop OZ workers pay and conditions to that of a third world country.

It is not 'who' the new IR laws are..but 'what'.

For instance just today an employee of some years standing..said he needed the day off to look after his child as the mother was incapacitated...he was told the job or the sack...he was sacked because he wanted to care for his family!!!!!!!

FordFan86 · 05-06-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

The new workplace relations are a guide to expoliting and underpaying the workers of OZ.

In short under the new IR laws ...if I was to contract you to do a job for me whether it takes a year or one day....if I'm not happy with your work I can sack you without penalty...for no particular reason.

The new IR laws are designed to drop OZ workers pay and conditions to that of a third world country.

It is not 'who' the new IR laws are..but 'what'.

For instance just today an employee of some years standing..said he needed the day off to look after his child as the mother was incapacitated...he was told the job or the sack...he was sacked because he wanted to care for his family!!!!!!!

I've got all that & more (on a much more complicated level)
The IR laws is not what's bothering me... I want to know WHO not what/how/when/why the majority of independent contractors are... All the articles I have access to are written by government types who are more concerned with what/how/when/why, not who they are...

BPXR6T · 05-06-2006, 09:41 PM

I have been an independant IT contractor for the past seven years. Any questions shoot. But basically I have no conditions, I get no holiday pay, no sick pay, and I can be asked to clean out my desk at a moments notice for no reason.

I'm not going to advertise my income but I don't know a fellow contractor earning under six figures. So basically we're compensated for the lack of conditions.

Free347 · 05-06-2006, 09:45 PM

Independent contractors are not employees, they are parties in a business relationship.

Also, from the briefings and advice I have received to date the action taken against the employee you refered to is potentially illegal. Sick leave is legislated (diff to awards) and as such must still be adheared to. As sick leave is commonly available to employees in order to care for immediate family in the case of illness to be refused sick leave may be grounds for dispute. Overtime, rates etc are different however from what I understand employment provisions which are legislated remain intact. There is sooo much to the workplace reform and I'm still getting through all of it but that's my take on it so far. I could be wrong but this is what my employment lawyers are telling me.

BPXR6T · 05-06-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free347

Independent contractors are not employees, they are parties in a business relationship.

That's exactly what it is. These new IR laws do nothing to me as this is how I've been operating for the best part of the last decade. I run a through a PTE company. The company has a contract with the organisations I work for.

I pay 100% of my own super out of the contract rate along with professional indemnity. The contract is based on an hourly rate. If I'm not onsite working them I'm not being paid. Regardless if I'm sick or on holiday.

FordFan86 · 05-06-2006, 10:03 PM

Just a piece from my essay..
"How about those hit with a double whammy? Too bad if you’re an independent contractor as under the new laws you are up for a double hit. Independent contractors will be taxed as an employee of a company if they earn more than 80% of their wage from that company, but will be exempt from minimum wage and other condition employees are entitled to.[footnote] "

BPXR6T · 05-06-2006, 10:33 PM

The 80/20 rule is current. There is no minimum wage applicable to my circumstance either, its whatever I negotiate. I haven't read the new IR laws but it would seem they are exactly the same as what IT contractors have been working with for years.

I'm not sure how it will translate to other industries. Being in the midst of a skills shortage it would appear to be an employees market.

FordFan86 · 05-06-2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourBarrel

I'm not sure how it will translate to other industries. Being in the midst of a skills shortage it would appear to be an employees market.

You are 100% on the ball with this comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Andrews

Ongoing workplace relations reform produces an economic benefit with significat social dividends...

From a utilitarian perspective this is correct, [un]fortunately my essay question asks me to discuss this statement with relation to unfair dismissal & minimum wages... and benefits to ALL Australians.

gtfpv · 06-06-2006, 12:07 AM

ok i had a friend who took redundancy and paid for an independant contractors licance . he had to pay an annual liability insurance fee as well . before he could work as a contractor . basically he got paid for when he was there , he was charging $45 /hr , which i'm told he undercut others to the tune of $30 .he was at call all the time . he had to quote for free to differant companies who wanted labour for a day etc . lots of companies didn't pay him for weeks . he was at bec and call to keep himself employed . he finished with us unknowingly he just didnt get a call for a few weeks . he rang work and they said he's not required any more . the stress and uncertainty finished him . he chucked it in and got a job. he is now an employee.i dont think any awards were in place either . anyone with a licence could undercut others , so the job went to the lowest bidder. lots of companies would hire them for a day here a day there and never pay.

BPXR6T · 06-06-2006, 01:40 PM

Interesting. I'm the opposite. I'm getting paid $50 more per hour than my closest employee colleague. If anything we drive up the rates. I've also never been out of work since contracting. The biggest cost is having to constantly upgrade my skills to make sure I am a desired commodity.

Maybe that's the difference between high tech and regular industries. i.e. IT is constantly changing meaning there is always demand for the latest and greatest. That generates a sellers market in which I can sell my hard to get skills to the highest bidder.

If the industry doesn't change then there is no real opportunity for an individual to develop a skillset that is highly desireable and sellable. That leads to a larger pool of people with the same skillset which I imagine would generate a buyers market where each individual in that pool is undercutting the other to get the job. I think this environment coupled with the willingness of organisations to import foreign labour is a serious concern.

Just random thoughts but that's what I see as being the big risk of the new IR laws. The widening gulf between the rich and poor. Independent bargaining has the potential to destroy the harmonious society we have built.

MYVYSS · 06-06-2006, 02:36 PM

I have been an independant IT contractor for 4years. I have no conditions, I get no holiday pay, no sick pay, HOWEVER I can be sacked like any other worker and HAVE to receive the amount stated in my personal contract which as it stands is 6 weeks notice. This works both ways, I cannot leave my employer/contract without 6 weeks notice. I still enjoy the benefits of having a Novated Lease and all the other full time benefits, except for Public Holiday pay and paid leave. Having said that I know that my remuneration is currently around 45-60% above what I would be getting should I want a "Full Time Job" and for 6 weeks a year I will take the extra money and RUN!!!!

rapidxr6 · 06-06-2006, 06:18 PM

A bit off topic i apoligize but regarding johnny's new I.R laws.. I was in Melbourne on the 25+26th last month for union business and meetings and a sit in for a supreme court hearing on friday. On the thursday night i went to a seminar regarding the 'new' I.R laws at the trade halls building on Lygon. I like many others had the urge to slit our wrists after hearing what we did. I for one am NOT looking forward to our next round of E.B.A's but atleast we've got another 20 months or near abouts to fatten ourselves up for the slaughter. 156 employees at our humble little sawmill, only 4 of them are SCABS < u know what they are..

STRENGTH in numbers.!!. Get Unionised!!

T_Terror · 06-06-2006, 07:16 PM

Im an independant telecommunications contractor.

The answer to the "who" part, is basically the guys that get brought in to get the job done. Management doesnt want to know what problems they face. Only the results. And contractors are payed accordingly.

Myself and most contractors i know havent been greatly affected by the new IR laws as there really werent that many benefits to loose haha.

Contractors operate in all industries from labour (building), technical and managerial roles. Youll usually only see them in larger companies as they are the only ones who can afford to pay them.

As mentioned the money is really good, i earn significantly more than others in my field working as employees, the lack of benefits dosent bother me at all as the money more than makes up for it.

Im happy to answer any other questions, as i believe the new IR laws are going to be pushing alot more people into a situation of employment similar to mine.

rxj · 06-06-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourBarrel

I have been an independant IT contractor for the past seven years. Any questions shoot. But basically I have no conditions, I get no holiday pay, no sick pay, and I can be asked to clean out my desk at a moments notice for no reason.

I'm not going to advertise my income but I don't know a fellow contractor earning under six figures. So basically we're compensated for the lack of conditions.

FourBarrel,

I'm an IT Manager and I have mixture of team members who are both permanent and contracting. You must work in an unreasonable place if you are expected to clean out your desk at a moments notice unless you have done something within an organization which severely breaches company policy. With regards to conditions, I'm assuming you work through an agency if so any work cover claims are claimed through your agency. You are right you don't get holiday, sick pay etc... But as you said you are compensated with the extra income and I don't know of any contractors or IT Managers at my level earning under 6 figures. However saying that do you know of many IT professionals who work 40 hours a week. Most do around 50-60 hours and get paid for only 40. You have to be lucky to get paid overtime unless you really push for it. No unions in the IT industry.

cheers,

rxj.

BPXR6T · 06-06-2006, 08:18 PM

Sorry for the temp hijack, but...

Quote:

You must work in an unreasonable place if you are expected to clean out your desk at a moments notice

The organisation I currently work for has a need to get rid of people immediately if they become a security risk. Practically this doesn't happen as we have to jump through a number of hoops to get our security clearence before we are allowed in the door.

Quote:

With regards to conditions, I'm assuming you work through an agency if so any work cover claims are claimed through your agency.

Work cover and professional indemnity are covered by my PTE company, not my agency. Your right, if your just going agency to organisation then your agency pays it albeit from the amount scalped from your rate. Insurance works out to be next to nothing and the benifit of not paying payroll tax far outweighs the cost.

Quote:

do you know of many IT professionals who work 40 hours a week

The permanent employees in my current place of employment don't get overtime. They get time back. However I negotiated an hourly rate so they pay for it if I work over 40hrs. I have worked for a daily rate before and been taken advantage of, not something I wish to repeat.

Wokkas · 06-06-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordFan86

I'm guessing most would be tradesmen or in another 'labour' type of job

Phwoooooaaaar......... Tradesmen being compared to labourers and IT "people"

ing_sm

ing_sm

Not happy Jan. :nutsycuck

Us tradies are that much of a rare and precious assett these days, that WE make the rules and tell our bosses what to do. He he he, well nearly.

An employer wouldn't dare push IR laws onto someone with a trade.

Good luck with the essay mate.

FordFan86 · 06-06-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wokkas

Phwoooooaaaar......... Tradesmen being compared to labourers and IT "people"

ing_sm

ing_sm
Not happy Jan. :nutsycuck
Us tradies are that much of a rare and precious assett these days, that WE make the rules and tell our bosses what to do. He he he, well nearly.
An employer wouldn't dare push IR laws onto someone with a trade.
Good luck with the essay mate.

Thanks, it's all done now.. I'm missing a bit on AWA's but I'm sure I'll do fine without it. Referencing is a tho... like 2 hours to get footnotes and bibliography done :(
Also thanks to T Terror for actually getting the closest to actually what I wanted to know & others who shared their line of work and experiences

351clevocorty · 06-06-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wokkas

Phwoooooaaaar......... Tradesmen being compared to labourers and IT "people"

ing_sm

ing_sm

Not happy Jan. :nutsycuck

Us tradies are that much of a rare and precious assett these days, that WE make the rules and tell our bosses what to do. He he he, well nearly.

An employer wouldn't dare push IR laws onto someone with a trade.

Good luck with the essay mate.

Here Here, I'm a self employed electrician/air-conditioning contractor. If I can't make minimum 400-500/day a minimum 3 days per week, I don't get out of bed. So far for the last 12 months that attitude has worked for me.