Give way means just that

[460cixy]

i rode my tredly to work today for a change and ripped this chick a new on the way home for stoping on the pedestrian crossing lets say she was not of anglo decent and just gave me a dumb look thay must think thay paint the prety stripes there for no good reasion

[goXF]

For the past few months I have been riding into work (20k round trip) and you always have to keep in mind that someone will do something stupid.
Glad to see the guy is being punished for it.

I assume you have a road bike?
I only have a mountain bike and the best i can do is around 50kmh down hill flatout on the highest gear. (for 10 seconds etc - not for long...)

[Doctor Sodways]

At least your ok, and he is getting probably less than what he deserves

[new2ford]

A car drivers perspective. I don't ride a bike but I respect bike riders and would not want to hit one. Bikes work well in European cities where the traffic speeds are lower. With the higher speeds in Australia there is more potential for something to go wrong (as with pedestrians). The things that make me nervous are - the small separations between bike and traffic lanes and the consequences if somebody swerves slightly; the poor lighting of bikes at night (VERY hard to see); bikers that ignore the road rules - go through lights and stop signs, plough through pedestrians etc (a courier biker killed a pedestrian in Sydney).

I agree car drivers do some stupid and dangerous things to bikers but on the other side of the coin I was driving down a gorge in Sydney at the maximum safe speed which was about 50kph and I was overtaken by a pack of bikers roaring down about 20k faster, going round the blind bends on the wrong side. When I got to the bottom and started climbing the other side, there they were crawling up at about 4kph blocking the whole road and not moving over to let me pass. I suppose they thought they were making up for the arrogance of some car drivers but, like those peak hour bike blockades in Sydney all they accomplish is to bring contempt on themselves. A lot of respect on both sides is needed.

[max]

I have a dilemma. Adelaide has a lot of round-abouts. Most cyclists generally get along at a fair rate of knots. As I approach a round-about in the car and a cyclist is ahead of me approaching it too (at a fair speed), I have to do quite a rapid calculation as to whether or not I can pass him and clear the round-about before he gets to it, or whether I should hang back and allow him to get around first. 99% of the time I adopt the latter option. Why? Because the speed of the cyclist is easily under-estimated, and there is no visible indication of the cyclist slowing down other than the temporary cessation of pedalling. I will not allow myself to get into a situation where my flawed judgement may endanger another road user. In an ideal world all cycles using the road would be fitted with indicators, brake lights, mirrors etc, as a motor-cycle. The issue is that bicycles are travelling faster on the roads nowadays, and safety compensatory considerations have not caught up with that fact. In the meantime extreme caution needs to be exercised by the MOTORIST.

[JC]

Originally Posted by parawolf

Some people might recall I gave up the car for commuting to work. On the bicycle it was 30 minutes faster than the car, and 40+ minutes faster than the tram.

Anyway, the inevitable happened. Tommorrow it is likely i'll be lodging a TAC accident claim against a car that decided to run a give way sign without considering my actual proximity or speed. After slamming on both my brakes balancing the agressive speed reduction (I was doing ~42km/h prior to realising this guy wasn't stopping) and yelling at the top of my lungs for him to stop (which he finally looked my way and did brake) I ended up being hit by the front bumper and I now have a twisted ankle and bruised knee.

Now it was dusk when it happened, I had my lights on, 2 on flash, 1 on steady state pointing forward, and 2 pointing backwards. The lights (both front and rear) can been seen over 500metres away (bought based on this visibility tests from independent (not vendor) sources) so they are not 'dull' by any stretch of the imagination. So let me say I was quite visible.

I now cannot put weight on my left foot, unlikely to go to work tomorrow all because someone didn't obey 2 signs. 1 yellow caution sign for bicycles, and 1 give way triangle.

The guy nerve to yell at me for collapsing on his bonnet after t-boning me stating that "I should look where I am going". When I pointed out that there was a clearly unobstructed giveway sign and that he should have stopped to yield he got all defensive. I then pointed out that he shouldn't drive so rash with his entire family in the car (wife in front seat and two kids in the back).

He got back into the car without a sorry, once I got out of the way he sped off without checking I needed any more help (i got his rego).

This isn't a cyclist vs driver thread, nor do I want it to degenerate that way. I just want people to realise that there are other perfectly valid road users, drivers are required to observe road rules for all road users. Cyclists are valid road users.

The above is equally required of cyclists. I know many don't, but I do, in the hope that karma will rub off.

By the way... this happened while I was riding on a lit bike path which is down the middle of a divided road with tram tracks as well.

So please... give way at a give way sign, and look both ways, don't assume it is clear. I'm sure no-one wants a death on their hands - I count myself and fortunate to have gotten away with what I did.

PM his rego etc to redrum. He should be able to sort him out for you.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by new2ford

A car drivers perspective. I don't ride a bike but I respect bike riders and would not want to hit one. Bikes work well in European cities where the traffic speeds are lower. With the higher speeds in Australia there is more potential for something to go wrong (as with pedestrians). The things that make me nervous are - the small separations between bike and traffic lanes and the consequences if somebody swerves slightly; the poor lighting of bikes at night (VERY hard to see); bikers that ignore the road rules - go through lights and stop signs, plough through pedestrians etc (a courier biker killed a pedestrian in Sydney).

I partly agree with this. I am both a car driver and a cyclist so I know both edges of the sword quite well. Also having spent some time in Holland I know why cyclists are treated differently there to here. The prime reason is that people grow up on a bike. Kids ride to school - they don't get driven to the school by a soccer mum in an SUV - well in the suburb I was staying in anyway.

Denmark is similar and have dedicated cycling lanes built which are as wide as a car in each direction - commonly referred to as copenhagen lanes. These lanes exist between the footpath, and the parking/driving lanes for cars. They are stepped height in difference to the footpath and the street so peds know it is there, and so cars cannot drive on them.

Additionally cyclists that commute typically ride to get places, not ride for exercise like what happens here in Australia more often then not. You won't see CBD commuters on their bikes in lycra shorts, Tour de France team jerseys and $4000 carbon fibre bikes. You will see the majority in their work clothes for that day, on some $400 3 speed steel bike.

Australian culture dictates a 6 cylinder or V8 for a car as a must have item for anyone turning 18 (generalisation), and a high performance car or large SUV style car is seen as a symbol of success.

So until Bike Education is rolled out to all primary and state schools (I remember doing it back in my primary school days some 20years ago, and a large portion of schools still do not partake), until petrol hits Europe pricing and driving a 3.5Litre V6 turbo SUV to drive the kids to school, until there is a full generation change that has experienced the above, attitudes towards cyclists in Australia will not change. Just something that has to be accepted I guess.

I agree car drivers do some stupid and dangerous things to bikers but on the other side of the coin I was driving down a gorge in Sydney at the maximum safe speed which was about 50kph and I was overtaken by a pack of bikers roaring down about 20k faster, going round the blind bends on the wrong side. When I got to the bottom and started climbing the other side, there they were crawling up at about 4kph blocking the whole road and not moving over to let me pass. I suppose they thought they were making up for the arrogance of some car drivers but, like those peak hour bike blockades in Sydney all they accomplish is to bring contempt on themselves. A lot of respect on both sides is needed.

The cyclists doing that, are just as bad as motorists doing that. They are taking a gamble with their lifes and those of others around them. The same can be said for many motorists that speed day in day out, drop the clutch nearly every start stop manuevaure, or wait until the last second to brake. Motorists bring just as much contempt on themselves for doing exactly the same things - however as there are more motorists than cyclists a blind eye is often turned to this behaviour.

I'm just glad I take the moral high ground on the ride into work every day - i stop at every traffic light when required to, I stop behind a tram that is picking up/setting down passengers. A red light is just more practice for me in taking off from a standing start.

But anyway, that is away from the initial point of my thread. I was merely just trying to relate a direct experience of my own and hopefully encourage a little bit of common sense (not to mean that people on AFF are lacking, just getting the message out). There is no road sign or road rule worth breaking if you end up injuring or killing someone else to get to your destination 5 minutes faster.

[new2ford]

I think we're on the same ground parawolf. I enjoyed living in Europe too for the more sensible and relaxed approach to these matters - and being able to hop on quick and efficient trams and so on. The mess we have in Australia is the result of a huge planning disaster based on our desire to live on quarter acre blocks, therefore everybody feels they have to rush around great distances at high speed in cars to get places. I do feel for cyclists - such a sensible alternative but so hard in practice in Aust cities. Glad you're OK anyway.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The things that make me nervous are - the small separations between bike and traffic lanes and the consequences if somebody swerves slightly;

Sad to see today that a cyclist has been killed after being knocked out of the cycle lane by another cyclist on the Sydney Wollongong motorway into the path of a car. This is what I was refering to in terms of such small traffic separations in a country where traffic is moving at speed. People get killed just being in a broken down car in a motorway breakdown lane. It is no place for a cycleway.

This was no aggressive or stupid motorist involved. It was the stupidity of putting a cycleway centimetres from the carriageway of a 110kph road (or even an 80 kph road for that matter).

[ON_DUBS]

damn what a jerk i hope he gets everything thats coming to him.
let us know how things get dealt with.

people not giving way and using more road than they need is becoming a consistent annoyance during my daily driving. lately ALOT of ****3rs have failed to giveway to me while im turning right on a round-a-bout. i've had to come to a complete stop a few times now becuase someone has pulled out in front of me without looking.

i also cant stand people who cut across the mouth of the road in t-junctions in backstreets. then they have the nerve to look at YOU like youre in the wrong?!! one of these days im just going to explode

[sfr rob]

yeah i say .. bad luck, but i do not feel sorry for you bike riders who share the road with cars and trucks.

As a truck driver i am, on a daily basis having to avoid crazy bicycle riders on our roads, that have no regard to road rules or traffic around them.

I think that bicycle's should not be allowed on our roads, at least on main roads and at peak hour times, it is FAR to dangerous for both the rider, and to the driver of a vehicle if they happen to collide.
I understand why people ride bikes, but its a pretty 1 sided game of russian roulette.

I have edited this post 3 times now, so the crux of my argument has had to be sanitised a fair bit to make it onto this forums, but i feel so strongly about this that i had to post.

Rob