Whatever happened to Ethanol?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by whynot

Sugar cane faming is on the nose with The Greens and the ALP due to the runoff of nitrogen-based fertilisers and pesticide run-off from local farming lands affecting the Great Barrier Reef. (Also on the nose is cattle grazing, bananas, and grain.)

https://www.reefplan.qld.gov.au/land-use/cane

The sugar cane industry itself faces very stiff international competition from high-fructose corn syrup as a substitute in food manufacturing. And, sugar, even though it is a natural product, there is an advertising push to use low energy manufactured replacements like aspartame.

The Australian sugar cane industry makes only 2% of the world's sugar. As such, it is a bit player and a price taker.

Just to extend the answer a little. Because of the energy yield of solar and wind, various interest groups would much rather see the sugar cane farming land converted to solar PV and wind farms. Instead of using ethanol as an intermediatory energy storage, we install massive transmission networks and convert the fleet to EV.

(Chinese solar PV, wind turbines, batteries, and EV's - of course.)

Can't do anything with aspartame or HFCS in it, chaos on my guts

[Sprintey]

Aspartame and HFCS on the body, omg why do that to people?!

And sugar in the body - better to burn it in an engine!

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Itsme

To answer your question, it has to do with greenhouse gas emissions target set by our governments, who is going to invest in a fuel that will be on the nose in years to come, same for our gas industry, look at Victoria, no more gas appliances in new houses.

Cheers

If you look at what's happening in Europe, if they follow the path set by their governments, they'll lose their entire industry. Watch their govs back pedal and put up protective walls.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

For us its also a shortage of gas on the east coast, because we're absolute retards who export it all and create a shortage in our own domestic market.

WA at least had brains and has a reservation policy for their domestic market, us we'd rather sell it overseas for cheap then buy it back off the same people for ridiculous prices.

The era of cheap gas for Victorians is long over unfortunately.

WA is smart atm, but given time gas will become taboo, renewable energy is what Governments want, especially Labor, Greens & most independents.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yeah, I once worked with a guy that stupid.

Do you mean he was stupid for filling up with E85 or taking the dealers advice?

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Checking how much sugar cane needs to be grown to produce ethanol?

Is there enough land, water and growing time to produce it in sufficient amounts?

Our sugar cane industry was basically killed by Brazil (cheaper and closer).
USA manufacturers pulled out of Australia because they preferred to chase the LHD South American market.

So what Brazil has what it does precisely because we do not.

Besides, last I heard they were looking at here was algae to produce biofuels?
In WA there's none anyway - you could probably search hard for a 711/puma with E10 but none of the mains have it (can't buy it at BP/Caltex/Shell). While it's the opposite in the east, e10 everywhere, e85 can be found and in QLD or NSW there's no such thing as 91RON anymore as all of it can have 4% ethanol.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by oldel

Our sugar cane industry was basically killed by Brazil (cheaper and closer).
USA manufacturers pulled out of Australia because they preferred to chase the LHD South American market.

So what Brazil has what it does precisely because we do not.

Besides, last I heard they were looking at here was algae to produce biofuels?
In WA there's none anyway - you could probably search hard for a 711/puma with E10 but none of the mains have it (can't buy it at BP/Caltex/Shell). While it's the opposite in the east, e10 everywhere, e85 can be found and in QLD or NSW there's no such thing as 91RON anymore as all of it can have 4% ethanol.

https://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/
You can filter to find the stations that sell E85.
United also owns Astron.

[oldel]

Yeah the point is OP is in WA, asking what happened to ethanol.
Did you even bother to check your own link yourself?
In WA you have to look for it - and United don't sell it either. While in eastern states you have to buy 95 or 98 to avoid it.

Only 711 sells e10 in WA as far as I know but I haven't been to one in 8 years. That's not counting everyone out, but United, BP, Caltex or Shell do not. Ethanol, e10, e85 is dead in WA completely even though it's common in the east.
WA is on the same continent but it's a like a different country ha ha.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by oldel

In WA you have to look for it - and United don't sell it either. While in eastern states you have to buy 95 or 98 to avoid it.

Probably because WA doesn't have a sugar cane crop. Therefor, there is no political pressure to support a local sugar cane industry.

In Queensland, certain politicians run a continual campaign to promote ethanol. In turn, this has forced both sides of the house to support regulations to mandate E10 / RON94; and to price it in such a way that it is always cheaper than regular 91.

If it was left to natural market forces, then I suspect E91 would be a niche or completely disappear from the outlets in QLD, NSW, and VIC.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by oldel

there's no such thing as 91RON anymore as all of it can have 4% ethanol.

Can you reference this quote of yours, as I'm quite certain 91ron fuel in Australia does not contain ethanol unless marketed as E5 or E10.