"It's the Law"

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Load resistors inline with the lights will fix that fast flash speed right up with LEDs.

Yep, thanks Franco, fixed that back then but later found load resistor was causing a parasitic drain.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Anyhow, the links on both front & rear anti-sway bars were found to be stuffed. And a decent wait to get them from USA.
Tico mechanics solution... Remove both bars completely!
What Riteve don’t see, they can’t fail!

thats what i use to do here in Wait Awhile
remove anything that needed to be repaired/replaced that wouldnt change the road wortheyness of the car and give them a clean enviroment of what theyd want to see tidying everything up
repair/replace everything else so it was passable and drivable

[meggsy]

Wodhas love that saying Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic!

[stock1991]

Originally Posted by wodahs

thats what i use to do here in Wait Awhile
remove anything that needed to be repaired/replaced that wouldnt change the road wortheyness of the car and give them a clean enviroment of what theyd want to see tidying everything up
repair/replace everything else so it was passable and drivable

paint it black and put it back

[MITCHAY]

The mechanics have a legal obligation to say you have to replace this or that. Surely they take the **** on a lot of things and it's less an issue about legality more than what they can take you for.

All I want to know is if my car leaves your workshop in its current condition, is it unroadworthy or not?

That is all I care about. And if it isn't, what do I need to do to fix that and how much does it cost?

Anything after that is entirely on me.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The mechanics have a legal obligation to say you have to replace this or that. Surely they take the **** on a lot of things and it's less an issue about legality more than what they can take you for.

All I want to know is if my car leaves your workshop in its current condition, is it unroadworthy or not?

That is all I care about. And if it isn't, what do I need to do to fix that and how much does it cost?

Anything after that is entirely on me.

True,

But they scare monger people with consumables like brakes, tyres, wiper blades etc.

I used to detest it when you get a call "Your rotors have 3 months left on them, better change them to keep the care roadworthy"..

Really? Wear and tear is defined in months now and not KM? Even if it was a KM figure that is an estimate at best.

When I had my new Ford the servicing 'club' I joined gave me all sorts of perks. Really they were just to get you through the door to upsell and scare you into getting stuff done sooner than needed.

One of those perks was free puncture repairs.

Just had a service done, no worries all good. Nothing noted or mentioned, no suggested extra work needed.

Get a puncture, book it in.

Drive there only to be told they won't repair the tyre because it was more than 50% worn and therefore not able to make it to the next service interval.

Was fine 2 weeks ago... now I'm driving a death trap that would make them liable for their first born if they repair the tyre and I have an accident 9 months down the track.

Bloody joke... and if you object or say something you look like the crazy one..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by meggsy

Wodhas love that saying Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic!

And one actually existed

[Tassie f100]

I presume the legalities are the same now as a few years ago in that a workshop can refuse to let a customer off the premises if it is a dangerous condition.Friend of mine got into a quite heated argument with a customer whose car had badly worn front ball joints.Customer said it is alright I’ll take it home and fix it,friend said no it isn’t leaving here in that condition.After much argument friend called cops who stuck a canary on the car and told customer it couldn’t be driven in present condition

[Pis-ton broke]

back in the old days when the rta had to see your car for a bluey, i had an rx7 with some attachment missing off the engine, i made something up with steel plate and small pipe, a bit of black paint, whacked in a hose from point a to b. i had no idea what the missing part was, but the car ran very well.

come inspection day and the experts, cough,cough. checked out the engine bay, and all good young fella. paid my money and off i went.

i guess they didn,t know what was missing either.

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by meggsy

Wodhas love that saying Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic!

thats ****in funny as bro.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by meggsy

Wodhas love that saying Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic!

thanks
well i just think
until you know you cant do it , give it a go , every one fails even experts
dont just dismiss it with oh im not trained so i cant !
thats why its in my sig

[ratter]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I presume the legalities are the same now as a few years ago in that a workshop can refuse to let a customer off the premises if it is a dangerous condition.Friend of mine got into a quite heated argument with a customer whose car had badly worn front ball joints.Customer said it is alright I’ll take it home and fix it,friend said no it isn’t leaving here in that condition.After much argument friend called cops who stuck a canary on the car and told customer it couldn’t be driven in present condition

Not in Victoria, you can not hold a customers car for safety reasons but you are entitled to hold it unless payment has been made.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by ratter

Not in Victoria, you can not hold a customers car for safety reasons but you are entitled to hold it unless payment has been made.

Must have changed the rules,because this was in Sth Gippsland around 20 years ago.

[ratter]

I've been in the trade a few years more than that and it has been the case as long as I can remember.
I actually worked for a boss at one stage that tried that sort of threat, his behavior was what made me get out of his shop.

[gooseneck]

Kinda wish that I could put in HID or LED globes into an AU headlight assembly in the low beam position and get it passed for registration and I'm fully willing to comply with the law in all regards however there is no means of adapting an AU Halogen headlight assembly into a projector type and making it legal. Even if you were to cut out the halogen lenses and fit projector style lenses they wouldn't be able to be adjusted left or right up or down.

And I have no intentions of modding one.

That is the problem here. You cannot modify anything at all without running foul of inspectors even if its done with the best of intentions. However overseas you can find plenty of HID projector lenses moulded to fit perfectly cars which never left the factory with HID or LED lenses all available online. I'm even so nervous talking about this online that I'm sure that some boomer will pipe in and say something to the effect of "don't you dare think about importing one of those for your AU" even though none exist available to buy I'm 100 percent sure that I'll get blasted for thinking it.

I also have no intentions of importing one.

But you know what, those same boomers will fit a foff fifty five watt HID kit to their hilux/landcruiser and scream profanities at you as they drive past. The rules don't apply to them. **** them.

And god help you if you talk about doing this (even a little bit) to anyone out in the real world you'll lose your head by one of the boomers. ****ing honestly is this what Australia is like? All the boomers think we're stupid and think that they're gods?

The people throwing around high powered commodores and falcons in the 80s and 90s and wrapping it around a telegraph pole really did a number on this nation didn't they? Scared it ****less.

I spose if I lost a kid to a car crash I would be against car mods too. But you know what you can crash a car and get killed in it no matter if its modded or not. Talk about intending to hit a nail and instead hitting your thumb. Last time I checked headlight mods aren't high power performance mods. But it gets put under the same banner.

Even if you told the boomers that you started a factory manufacturing AU falcon lenses I'm sure they'd stare at you "yeah but its not legally recognized and you have to get that approved by the authorities first" in a loud screaming voice. which of course takes a lot of time and money to do so.

So the modding community in Australia is underground and done in amateurish ways, I won't comment on performance mods as they are well engineered but as for headlights, never heard of any well engineered HID reflectors being made for the AU.. But overseas primarily in the US its flourishing. I envy that.

Typical hard british attitude, treat everyone like convicts.

The problem here is attitude.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

Kinda wish that I could put in HID or LED globes into an AU headlight assembly in the low beam position and get it passed for registration and I'm fully willing to comply with the law in all regards however there is no means of adapting an AU Halogen headlight assembly into a projector type and making it legal. Even if you were to cut out the halogen lenses and fit projector style lenses they wouldn't be able to be adjusted left or right up or down.

And I have no intentions of modding one.

That is the problem here. You cannot modify anything at all without running foul of inspectors even if its done with the best of intentions. However overseas you can find plenty of HID projector lenses moulded to fit perfectly cars which never left the factory with HID or LED lenses all available online. I'm even so nervous talking about this online that I'm sure that some boomer will pipe in and say something to the effect of "don't you dare think about importing one of those for your AU" even though none exist available to buy I'm 100 percent sure that I'll get blasted for thinking it.

I also have no intentions of importing one.

But you know what, those same boomers will fit a foff fifty five watt HID kit to their hilux/landcruiser and scream profanities at you as they drive past. The rules don't apply to them. **** them.

And god help you if you talk about doing this (even a little bit) to anyone out in the real world you'll lose your head by one of the boomers. ****ing honestly is this what Australia is like? All the boomers think we're stupid and think that they're gods?

The people throwing around high powered commodores and falcons in the 80s and 90s and wrapping it around a telegraph pole really did a number on this nation didn't they? Scared it ****less.

I spose if I lost a kid to a car crash I would be against car mods too. But you know what you can crash a car and get killed in it no matter if its modded or not. Talk about intending to hit a nail and instead hitting your thumb. Last time I checked headlight mods aren't high power performance mods. But it gets put under the same banner.

Even if you told the boomers that you started a factory manufacturing AU falcon lenses I'm sure they'd stare at you "yeah but its not legally recognized and you have to get that approved by the authorities first" in a loud screaming voice. which of course takes a lot of time and money to do so.

So the modding community in Australia is underground and done in amateurish ways, I won't comment on performance mods as they are well engineered but as for headlights, never heard of any well engineered HID reflectors being made for the AU.. But overseas primarily in the US its flourishing. I envy that.

Typical hard british attitude, treat everyone like convicts.

The problem here is attitude.

With our ADRs HIDs need auto levelling systems in their projectors, that's why hardly any of the cars in our market aside from the expensive stuff had HIDs until recently.

I bought the genuine HID assemblies from Ford Germany for my Focus, it cost a couple of thousand bucks landed for the RHD variants of the headlight assemblies and ballasts, no auto levellers but super clean cut off as they were the proper HID setup for the car, never got flashed by anyone, no police attention either.

[gooseneck]

Not like the autolevelling does anything when most of the cars around you with HID lights are SUVs. Lights from the car behind me when I'm driving in anything thats lower to the ground than an SUV then makes my face light up like a christmas tree from the reflection off the rear view mirror often forcing me to position it over to the passengers side, same with the drivers side mirror, and I'm doing this while driving just so I can see the road ahead without being blind, which then leaves the drivers side mirror misaligned so I cannot safely change into the right hand lane!!. Then you have the super bright LED tailights of modern cars which you would think they were just as bright as headlights. Sitting behind most modern cars at the lights give me a headache and make me video blind. Yet another stupid aussie law imho.

At least we are allowed to have LED light bars. Not like its a big deal or anything it just irks me that me and the other old car owners are the only ones on the road that has dim headlights and that theres nothing you can do about it. Its unsafe when you think about it using dim H4 halogen globes these days with so many modern HID/LED cars on the road now, having two brightnesses makes your eyes adjust to the brightest lights on the road and you then are driving blind as the SUV next to you pulls away and you are left with the dimmer halogens.

I miss being able to see the stars while driving along. Preserving night vision too is a thing of the past in cities.

Those 30 percent or 130 plus retrofit halogens are no good either because of their lifetime is rated in hundreds of hours instead of thousands and the price of them is steep.

But at least we're allowed to have bluer lights, ie the Osram Cool Blue Intense ones. Thats what I bought for my H4 positions. They are cheap with a moderate reduction in life expectancy. Paid $14 per globe I think. 20 percent more light with a 4200 kelvin temperature and a cheap bulb, just perfect.

You don't want to go too bright, if you go too bright the reflective coating on the street signs blind you as you drive past.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

Not like the autolevelling does anything when most of the cars around you with HID lights are SUVs. Then you have the super bright LED tailights of modern cars which you would think they were just as bright as headlights. Yet another stupid aussie law imho.

The real crime is $70,000 Thailand specials with halogen lights

Wasn't that long ago they all had H4s

[gooseneck]

Another thing I don't like is the clear "altezza" blinker/indicator light lenses. They are extremely difficult to spot when its either morning or afternoon or even during mid day when the sun is up because there is a far smaller contrast ratio between the sun reflecting off of the bright reflective clear altezza lens and the 21 watt light bulb inside trying to fight against the suns reflection.

So what happens is the light from the sun reflects off the altezza lens and I can't as easily tell where the blinkers are on modern cars. "Is he indicating? I can't tell, the sun is shining too brightly" used to be "Okay there is his blinker, I know because there is a yellow lens, and yep it looks like its changing in intensity, good, I can continue out onto the main road".

It just doesn't make sense to me that we went from a blinker that is easily visible and easy to distinguish WHERE the blinker light on a car is because its BRIGHT YELLOW to a blinker that is very difficult to find in a time constrained event such as seeing if someone is making a turn.

It has made driving more difficult.

Don't people realize that a blinker with a clear lens with a yellow bulb is more difficult to see than a yellow lens with a clear or yellow bulb? I guess not.

[fnp]

That, and the clear tail lights look retarded. They look especially stupid on a VT or EB/ED Fairmont with the light bar across the boot lid.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

I presume the legalities are the same now as a few years ago in that a workshop can refuse to let a customer off the premises if it is a dangerous condition.Friend of mine got into a quite heated argument with a customer whose car had badly worn front ball joints.Customer said it is alright I’ll take it home and fix it,friend said no it isn’t leaving here in that condition.After much argument friend called cops who stuck a canary on the car and told customer it couldn’t be driven in present condition

No business cannot stop you taking your vehicle if there is no money owing, fancy ringing the coppers which was a very low act in my opinion.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

No business cannot stop you taking your vehicle if there is no money owing, fancy ringing the coppers which was a very low act in my opinion.

Yeah I guess it can be very contentious, because if he holds the car he is in trouble,if he lets it goes and the worn out ball joints collapse and cause a serious crash he is in trouble because it just left his shop in a “safe” condition.As an aside he wouldn’t have got the cops involved if he didn’t consider the car too dangerous to drive.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Sorry for the threadmine, but came across this when looking for something else.
In WA we don't have annual inspections, so for the most part the issue is not one of passing muster. It's booking your car in for a service or particular job, and having some drongo try to sell me a bunch of crap. It ****es me off even more, knowing how often my daughters get targeted.

But yes, I've also encountered some utter twats when it comes to licensing. And sadly your attitude is typical of the worst offenders.
Thing is, the lists of;
"Repairs needed to restore the car to showroom condition";
"Repairs actually needed to make the car roadworthy and comply with ADRs"; and
"Crap you want to sell me";
are actually different things

The funniest one was having oldmate tell me that my indicator lenses had faded (on an AU.) Can you imagine if some poor fool had actually listened to him and forked out for new assemblies! (Instead of $2 for new globes)

Ha ha ha, I just read my response from 2017, and I have to say even today I stand by it, if that makes me a twat so be it, but I wouldn’t put my ticket on the line for a tool that wants to drive an unsafe bucket of crap

For the record, if I and every other NSW inspector regects a car you have the option to take it away and fix.

But I also reiterat I’m not loosing my lively hood for your perceived right to drive an unsafe clunker if that makes me a twat I don’t care I’ll sleep sound tonight and it’s know all customers driving **** box’s that they think are perfect like you seem to be are the reason I got away from fixing cars

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

Another thing I don't like is the clear "altezza" blinker/indicator light lenses. They are extremely difficult to spot when its either morning or afternoon or even during mid day when the sun is up because there is a far smaller contrast ratio between the sun reflecting off of the bright reflective clear altezza lens and the 21 watt light bulb inside trying to fight against the suns reflection.

So what happens is the light from the sun reflects off the altezza lens and I can't as easily tell where the blinkers are on modern cars. "Is he indicating? I can't tell, the sun is shining too brightly" used to be "Okay there is his blinker, I know because there is a yellow lens, and yep it looks like its changing in intensity, good, I can continue out onto the main road".

It just doesn't make sense to me that we went from a blinker that is easily visible and easy to distinguish WHERE the blinker light on a car is because its BRIGHT YELLOW to a blinker that is very difficult to find in a time constrained event such as seeing if someone is making a turn.

It has made driving more difficult.

Don't people realize that a blinker with a clear lens with a yellow bulb is more difficult to see than a yellow lens with a clear or yellow bulb? I guess not.

i totally agree , was going to bring it up but i thought i,d get called a whinger or something,.
i to have difficult spotting turn signals on some models, at least with an xd or xe you could easily tell.

[kaniSS]

I had an issue like this once. "It's the law" you must change it or I can't let you go by law.

Their tone changed quick smart when I ask them to wait there as I ring my secretary to check through my law books to find which law I'll be breaking.

Sir, let us double check that. 2 minutes later, all good to go. lol.

[prktkljokr]

Just my 2c

There are regulations in place regarding the safe operation of a motor vehicle, as a repairer you have to meet these standards and in some cases if the vehicle is classed unroadworthy, it will need to be repaired to a satisfactory level dictated by law to be able to drive on public roads.

So hypothetically if your vehicle has a fault and you took it for a inspection, would it pass a roadworthy with the fault?, then its pretty much then deemed unroadworthy and is in fact against the law to let you drive away as you are technically breaking the law.

1 being the person in charge of the vehicle knowingly driving a unroadworthy vehicle, then 2 the person who lets a person drive a vehicle knowing that it is in a unroadworthy state, they are both breaking the law, is it able to be upheld?, who knows.

Now we have to be real about what we deem as unroadworthy and what is dangerous, I would let a customer go with brake pads under 30%, or a indicator flash rate that was not to code, but when it comes to dangerous stuff (suspension, brakes failing, bald tyres ,etc), the only way it will leave is either fixed or on a towtruck.

I have seen what goes into the investigation of a fatal vehicle accident scene, and they will leave nothing untouched until they find the cause of the accident, if its driver error poor maintenance, a mechanical fault, speed, drugs /alcohol, whatever they will find the cause in 99.9% of most accidents.

So im pretty sure in most circumstances if your mechanic tells you that your car is dangerous and you drove your car in a unroadworthy state, had a accident killed someone, they investigate and find your car was unroadworthy, you would be saying "the mechanic let me drive it away", opening him up to legal issues that could have been avoided by you not being a tight *** and just fixing your car.

[Tassie f100]

That is what is happening over this Cop fatality in Vic.The investigators have now not only charged the truck driver,they have also charged the manager of the truck company with counts of causing death,presumably because of the unroadworthiness of either,or both the truck and driver.Unfortunatly the upper management who send the orders down the ladder to keep the freight moving at any cost seem to get out unscathed in most cases.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

That is what is happening over this Cop fatality in Vic.The investigators have now not only charged the truck driver,they have also charged the manager of the truck company with counts of causing death,presumably because of the unroadworthiness of either,or both the truck and driver.Unfortunatly the upper management who send the orders down the ladder to keep the freight moving at any cost seem to get out unscathed in most cases.

Do a Google search for Chain of responsibility Legislation All will be revealed..

[Mowdit]

I recently had a Ford dealership tell me that both my rear tyres needed replacing as well as the spare, (they were 1mm over the wear indicators, not the wear marker) and wouldn't be roadworthy long before next service

The spare isn't about to wear out

After I explained the difference between wear indicators and markers all I got in response was "OH"

Same with the brake rotors and every other scare mongering up sell BS