"Tradesman Utes" vs Vans

[Crazy Dazz]

Nah, I'm not thinking of buying one.
(Well maybe)

I suppose they have been around for a while, but in recent years there sees to have been an explosion in the use of Utes with "Tradesman" bodies.

(Perhaps the most bizarre thing is the the stacks of well-bodies at AHG and other dealers, indicating that they have run so short of cab-chassis that they have resorted to stripping styleside utes.)

These are nolonger just trays with canopies, they're full custom-built bodies, and are usually thoroughly kitted out internally with shelves, racks, bins, etc.
There are some (smaller) dual-cabs, but mostly these are single cabs, and I'd guess not 4wd. ie there's no "dual purpose".

I'd imagine some businesses DO get 4WD units, because their work takes them into environments where its necessary.
But for others I'm wondering why this choice, rather than simply a commercial van?
Is it price? I haven't done any research, but I'd have thought that a basic van would be cheaper, more fit for purpose, and offer superior space?
Is it comfort? Are the utes more carlike to drive?
Or is it just the great Australian obsession with Utes?

[au2000]

Probably a bit of both tbh. My son currently has a fg with a body on the back and has previously had a hilux with a tray and a hiace..
All 3 had their positives and negatives in his eyes. The hilux was a good strong basic alrounder with the vynil interior.. perfect for a muddy work site but was too thirsty, the fg is powerful and comftable for the job but with a box on the back drives like a p platers vn running 20" on the front and interceptors on the rear.. just too much weight. The hiace was a perfect mobile workshop for him with great seating position. But it was slow and leaned turning corners as well as being the most noisy and the scariest to drive given a frontal impact would pin his legs..
Guess it all depends on the tradies needs.. his preference overall would be a fg with a metal tray 1st or a hilux manual with a steel tray.

[roKWiz]

I don't really get the one vehicle does everything approach they try to sell with 4 door utes. Tubs are to small to carry anything, constantly seeing overloaded trade utes.
A lot of (good) builders/ craftsmen are stepping up to proper Hino/Isuzu NPR type "Trade Pack" equipped trucks. If you are going to carry that much stuff you might as well have a decent tray/body and payload capacity.
However I can see the appeal of a long wheelbase, dual rear wheel Transit type van for security.

[.:4:.]

I have had a van, a ute with just a canopy, and a ute with a service body. Now the van was great to work out of, heaps of space in the back. But it didnt have much of a towing rating and height was an issue with underground car parks. Also it wasnt a very safe vehicle. The ute with a tub and canopy, heaps nicer to drive, height wise fitted everywhere. But for what i do, needing to carry stock of a lot of small bits and bobs, it wasnt overly practical trying to orginise it and access stuff in the back.
The service body ute, whilst it had less physical space them the other ute and van in the back, having 3 full height doors on the body, all the space was accessible. Having shelves on one side was more usable then trying to access the shelves in the van. Having full height and legnt doors meant it was easy to get things from the front of the back etc. Plus it fitted in underground car parks. So all round easy to work out of. Couldnt fit big things in the back, but thats what trailers are for.
As much as im a fan of vans for the space, and yeah some fancy ones have bulkheads, but mine didnt. Theres 2 annoyances to me. 1 is you can hear all the crap bouncing around in the back all the time, and 2, if you have to take rubbish off site etc, all the dirt and dust in the back magically makes its way to all over the seats and dash. So its nice to be isolated from that in a ute.

[Jack91]

Utes are way easier to carry stuff on the roof with hurdles. Cant really transport heavy 6m+ lengths on a van because you cant get a forklift out once it drops it on, and cant have a front hurdle that isnt totally blocking vision.
Its also way easier to get stuff in and out of tray.

[hayseed]

I see quite a few Plumbers & electricians going to Vans.
The last Time I had to get Cummins to a breakdown, The mechanic Ooops Technician showed up in a High roof Transit Van very nicely fitted out with a mini Workshop & Spare parts Dept..

[Sprintey]

I think we need to perform more controlled head-on crash tests between them to find out which is the worthy winner

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I see quite a few Plumbers & electricians going to Vans.
The last Time I had to get Cummins to a breakdown, The mechanic Ooops Technician showed up in a High roof Transit Van very nicely fitted out with a mini Workshop & Spare parts Dept..

I hope they had a coffee machine in there!

[Ross 1]

Tried multiple combinations and nothing was a fit all solution. We now have a single cab ute with bars to pick up gravel etc in the tray or 6m lengths of timber on the roof. A dual cab ute with a good selection of tools on the back seat, pipe bars for timber and keeping the tray clear for smaller pick ups and at the start of the year I picked up a cheap Explorer, put all the seats down and I keep the good tools in there. We also have a small caged box trailer but that doesn't get used too often due to lack of parking in Wellington. The dual cab and the Explorer are both 4wd as we do have the occasional site that is off the beaten track and I use them for holidays to the family properties.

[Ross 1]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I hope they had a coffee machine in there!

Mine does, don't leave home without it.

[78xcgxl]

I'm a Sparky and run a FG falcon turbo ute with a 2.4m tray with a 3 door canopy and love it. Super comfy, reliable, cheap to maintain and nice to drive. Fits in every underground car park even with ladders on the roof. Carry's a fair bit weight but has wheels, tyres and suspension sorted to deal with it. It also achieves pretty good fuel consumption.

A van does have more room but they are not as nice to drive, struggle to fit in underground car parks, noisy and not as safe. The canopy also allows to reach in easy and no need to crawl inside the van to get materials and tools. It works for me but every had different needs and preferences.

If you factor a base single cab chassis ute with a canopy fitted it works out to be actually cheaper than a van fitted out. For example.

- A base ford Ranger 4x2 single cab is $33,160 add 10k for a service body and canopy $43,160 ( you can get a setup a lot cheaper than 10k but for example sake)

- A base Toyota Hiace van LWB 2.8L $47,222. Then add another 5k for a fit out of shelves and racks. $52,222


Also another important factor as a fleet operator once you buy a service body/ canopy, you can then transfer it over to the next vehicle once the original vehicle is past it's expiry date . When changing over to a van not as easy and will usually require another new fit out.

[.:4:.]

I think the term fit for purpose is correct. Different trades/uses have different needs for a setup. A painter has different needs to a carpenter, a carpenter has different needs to a projects sparky, a service sparky (what i do) has different needs to the projects guys. Then you have to factor in private use or purely work car. For private use, its nicer to be able to keep the front clean easily. It sucks jumping in a scummy dirt bag car on a saturday to go to a family bbqs etc. But still, work car, fuel card, private use and full servicing, thats why the battery goes flat in your personal car, creating a nice driveway ornimant.
Dual cabs, i dont understand why they were invented for uteing stuff. Space cabs/extra cabs, yeah, theres not too much of a sacrifice on trayness. But if you want a car for people and a ute for stuff. Single cab ute and a car, combining the 2 is impractical for both.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I hope they had a coffee machine in there!

Management agreed to putting a microwave powered from an inverter in a van we built for Boral when I cut my teeth in this industry, I told them it was a stupid idea.

Long story short trying to pull around 2000W from 12V DC stepped up to 240V AC resulted in the battery lasting about 45 seconds, their food being cold and the battery being killed.

Would work with external 240V feed though.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

- A base Toyota Hiace van LWB 2.8L $47,222. Then add another 5k for a fit out of shelves and racks. $52,222

Ok, WTF?

Can we change the name of this thread to "Why the Heck do Vans cost so much??"
I just had a quick squiz on carsales, and the prices are nuts.

My only point of referencee was thinking back to the days when a CHEAP people mover was basically a tarted up van with seats. At one stage we had a Starwagon.
But gees, even an iLoad is over $40k

[whynot]

Just a little thread drift ...

Back in the mid 1980's, the work vehicle for that tradies in my branch was a Ford F250, with 5.8l V8, three speed column auto, and single cab with a three across bench seat. They had a custom built storage unit on the rear for ladders, electronic test equipment, tools, rescue kit, spare parts, etc, etc. It even had a dedicated space for workshop manuals, operating manuals, and other (cough) technical documents. It was a struggle to keep the rig under GMV.

With the 351, it went like the clappers. We regularly use to turn the air cleaner lid upside down. The induction noise from the carburettor opened full throat (and the engine struggling against all of the weight) was something else all together. I recon it sounded far better than any exhaust job, ever. Good thing we did NOT have to pay for the fuel. Bonus, it had a surprisingly good FM radio and 6" speakers in the doors. It use to blast away all day on FM104 when on site.

The F250 was a handful in the wet. Drum brakes on the rear meant that it went through brake pads. They also went though Ford factory rear shock absorbers. After awhile the F250 were retrofited with Old Man Emu units, which made a massive improvement to handling.

In the end, they were pensioned off for 4 cylinder, 2 litre, diesel, Ford Traders.

Now, that was a tradie's ute!

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by whynot

and other (cough) technical documents.

Pics of other technical documents, only for reference sake!!

Ed

[smoo]

I'm a diesel mechanic and have worked out of a 70 series, dual cab Hilux and currently extra cab Ranger.
Out of the Utes the extra cab is the pick. Roughly same size tray at the 70 but much larger, more practical & comfortable cab.
All are compromised for this application. The only reason why one of these will be a logical choice over a van is 4wd/site access.
I've covered the Utes (both Thai special and 70 series) short comings on here in the past and scratch my head why so many in the trade persist with them.
Tossing up whether to go out on my own, if I do I''ll probably spend <$10k and kit out a trailer to tow behind my 100 Series. If money is no object the practical solution would be a larger van like a Mercedes Sprinter etc. Huge load space for everything - air compressor, welder, generator, gas set, jump batteries, parts/oils/tools, up to 3.5 tonne payload and 2.5t towing.
You can't argue with that and to do the same with a ute will require a trailer in tow the whole time and airbags in the **** as the 1 tonne payload claim is a crock.

[jstanovic]

I had a few vans early on, until I had a head on collision in my 4WD Patrol I would have died if I was in the van. From there to 2x single cab Mazda utes with different style trade canopies, then a FG with trade canopy (miss that one), now a dual cab Ranger with trade canopy.

Only went the dual cab due to 3 kids starting after-school activities etc, was spending lots of time driving the single cab home to pick up the other car to get the kids.

Everyone above has basically given the pros and cons, another one is that I used to have 2 cars, now only have the Ranger as my work and personal car. I can take my work canopy off and just use it as a tray back ute, or put on my second canopy when we go away. If I have to zip out to an emergency job I can drag the kids with me if needed. Cost works out about the same, only one rego/insurance etc but now the Ranger is clocking up km pretty fast so servicing/fuel/tyres etc is the same. And I never leave the good sunnies in the other car...

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by whynot

Just a little thread drift ...
In the end, they were pensioned off for 4 cylinder, 2 litre, diesel, Ford Traders.

2 litre diesel Ford Trader ???
Never heard of that one.
They built a small petrol
and 3lt (Perkins), 3.5lt (Mazda /Perkins), 4lt (Mazda Perkins), 4.6lt (Mazda), 4cyl diesels and a 4.1 (Perkins) 6cyl diesel.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

2 litre diesel Ford Trader ???
Never heard of that one.
They built a small petrol
and 3lt (Perkins), 3.5lt (Mazda /Perkins), 4lt (Mazda Perkins), 4.6lt (Mazda), 4cyl diesels and a 4.1 (Perkins) 6cyl diesel.

Yeah. You are probably right. It was definitely diesel (as I use to fill it). It was four cylinders with a five speed manual. And it definitely was slooooooowww when compared with the F250. I think it was one of the Traders that Ford use to badge share with Mazda.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yeah. You are probably right. It was definitely diesel (as I use to fill it). It was four cylinders with a five speed manual. And it definitely was slooooooowww when compared with the F250. I think it was one of the Traders that Ford use to badge share with Mazda.

3.0HA (indirect injection) Perkins was the smallest and was gutless (mainly due to gearing), used in a few early T series buses as well.

3.5SL 3.5SLT and 4.0TF (DI) Mazda built were the best motors especially with a little fuel pump tweaking.

[Crazy Dazz]

I used to drive a Trader. Had this weird "overdrive" shift on the side of the steering column.
It was demobed from a branch because it had finished its useful life, but head office just kept it anyway and I ended up with it. Glow-Plugs were shot. Starting that bastard on a cold morning was a sight to behold.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I used to drive a Trader. Had this weird "overdrive" shift on the side of the steering column.
It was demobed from a branch because it had finished its useful life, but head office just kept it anyway and I ended up with it. Glow-Plugs were shot. Starting that bastard on a cold morning was a sight to behold.

Must have been an older 3.0 ltr HA Perkins one as the later 3.5 SL on didn't have glow pugs.
The 3.0 Perkins and 3.5 Mazda are Identical at a quick glance with a lot of interchangeable parts but quickest way to tell a 3.0 from and later 3.5 and bigger is the glow plugs sticking out of the head at the injectors.
The water pump inlet and outlet on the opposite sides.

I see the occasional bulls**t advert on GT or Ebay selling an alleged 3.5/4.0 mainly cause sellers don't know the external differences.

Transmission was probably a 10 speed high low range. Range changer on the left side of the steering column, works well.

Another trait only the Ford Trader / Mazda T series had was a fully boxed chassis and why so many of the longer wheelbase models were used as tilt trays and tow trucks due to their inherent chassis strength.
Still quite a few being used.
I have heard of a few later Isuzu NPR's breaking C channel chassis due to overloading as tilt trays.

[Dr Smith]

Just a little support for the van owners of this world , today's Transit Custom has more safety tech than any Falcon ever got and matches a Ranger as well as a having a 5 star rating, I think tested in the same year as Ranger (but I could be wrong).

A van obviously cannot match low height clearance of a ute or max towing however setting aside the "look" of driving a van vs a ute, something like a Transit Custom Sport 5 seater has much more room in the second row than a ute.

Mind you if Ford release a V6 tdi Ranger I'm in....