Holden posts its second-biggest financial loss on record as it winds down manufacturing

[Dr Smith]

Big thank you Russell, if only we could get clear, simple numbers from international companies we'd know where they really sit before the accountants do their creative book work.

.....And going back to my initial reason for posting is the difference in reporting by a national motoring editor when he's dealing with published facts yet his bias can tarnish one brands image far more when the direct opposition has done worse. This is Not about opinion pieces about your favourite football team, this is about repeated and consistent negative slants against a company when the "facts" (based on officially lodged fin. results) show otherwise.

[Iggle Piggle]

I don't know that I would go so far as to say Dowling is Holden biased as I have seen him give them a slap upside the head many times, but I do think he does have it in for Ford for some reason, and given we have been raised on Ford vs Holden comparisons his bias against Ford is often interpreted as "Holden love".

If the traditional head-to-head comparisons were Ford vs Toyota many would say he is a Toyota lover, except for Hulk who would say his 5 second Avalon was a worthy winner. In a Ford vs Ford comparison Dowling would have them both tied for last.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by russellw

It means the combined loss for the three local manufacturers this last reporting year is $883.2m and over the last decade it's been $1,832m and even over the last 15 it's been $66.7m.

Individually, Ford have lost $1,104.8m over the last 10 years and $759.4m over the last 15 years.

Holden have lost $1,337.8m over the last 10 years but only $66.6m over the last 15 years.

Toyota have made $619.6m over the last 10 years and $759.3m over the last 15 years.


image

Cheers
Russ

But this does not show the full picture of what it's all about.
They naturally have a loss years, due to a lot of factors, as that's the way it has to be for such company's.
Joh average run about thinking all is doom because of one or 2 years do not show a profit, but the company know all is fine and they are on course and it's truly fine sailing.

Like in mining some don't make one cent in 10 years and all who invest in such know this, but they do invest in this, not because they are foolish but because they are smart enough to understand all is fine, the cookies are in the oven but one has to wait till they are baked.

[CyberWasp]

At the end of the day the 'creative accounting' that Ford and Holden have done effects the Joe Average perception of the Company and Product.
Example, the only thing Joe Average sees about Ford / Holden is the Company posting losses and dwindling sales. Perception is a bad company on the skids and associates that with a bad product.
Image is everything. Losses and decreasing sales effects image and public perception.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by castellan

But this does not show the full picture of what it's all about.
They naturally have a loss years, due to a lot of factors, as that's the way it has to be for such company's.
Joh average run about thinking all is doom because of one or 2 years do not show a profit, but the company know all is fine and they are on course and it's truly fine sailing.

So 15 years isn't long enough to establish a trend?
Even over the 20 year data the figures for Holden and Ford don't stack up and I suspect they never have.

Cheers
Russ

[701let]

Originally Posted by russellw

It means the combined loss for the three local manufacturers this last reporting year is $883.2m and over the last decade it's been $1,832m and even over the last 15 it's been $66.7m.

Individually, Ford have lost $1,104.8m over the last 10 years and $759.4m over the last 15 years.

Holden have lost $1,337.8m over the last 10 years but only $66.6m over the last 15 years.

Toyota have made $619.6m over the last 10 years and $759.3m over the last 15 years.


image

Cheers
Russ

Wow that is such a telling graphic! Look at the AU years 99 - 02!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

At the end of the day the 'creative accounting' that Ford and Holden have done effects the Joe Average perception of the Company and Product.

Joe Average has no clue about accounting practice.

You build a $100mil facility and write it off over the course of 20 years at $5mil per year, but the industry tanks 5 years in, so you write down your asset in that year by $75mil. That's not creative, that's sensible.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 701let

Wow that is such a telling graphic! Look at the AU years 99 - 02!

Helped in no small part not just by the volumes sold, but by the fact that we were paying not much less then than we are now.

If you take the accounting write-offs out of the equation, factor in that massive reduction in volumes and the increase in overheads per unit that brings, if they're essentially close to breaking even now, it shows how hard we were being reamed back then.

edit: by reamed, I mean by ALL car retailers, not just Foldenbishi

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Express

I understand why the Yanks pulled the manufacturing pins but I don’t know why the Government didn’t fight to the death to stop them.

In fact the government couldn't wait to roll over quick enough.

Unfortunately in Australia, its really rather simple (and sad.)
I'm not passing judgement, just making simple observations.
In Heavy Industry, including automotive, most of the employees would be perceived as being blue-collar and die-hard Labour voters. So Abbott and the Liberals have no real interest in saving their jobs. Like all Pollies, they'll pay lip-service, but they're not going to commit resources or political capital to their cause.
Unfortunately, the alternative government (which we had for ~6 years prior) is the Labour-Greens coalition. Even when they weren't dependent on Green votes in the lower house, Labour needs their preferences at the ballot box, and their support in the Senate. Unfortunately the Greens hate heavy industry, and especially the auto industry. So again lip-service, but no real effort.

Unfortunately also, Australian pollies on both sides are sold on what they believe to be "free trade," especially when it comes to international conventions, etc. So they will only support protection when there are big votes in it.

Ultimately, ALL Australian pollies have only a short term view, they care most about the next election, and maybe one term beyond. They're not interested in the future unless there's votes in it NOW (like climate change.)

Furthermore, in our system of government, we rely on the Opposition to challenge the government on important issues. So even IN opposition, a party can do a lot to protect industries and jobs, but sadly neither side is interested in standing up for the auto-worker.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Unfortunately in Australia, its really rather simple (and sad.).................

Agreed and it is a sad state of affairs.

But like everything if you look hard enough every cloud has a silver lining and as small a consolation as it may be, in this case we get a factory produced Mustang in return.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by 701let

Wow that is such a telling graphic! Look at the AU years 99 - 02!

From the graph, BA/BF and EF/EL were the best sellers. AU was a disaster, but it seems FG was a complete calamity...

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Read it again, more slowly. It's a quote referring to people who dismiss an otherwise good car because it isn't wearing their favourite badge. Nothing to do with people disliking a car for genuine reasons. Corolla is garbage, drive one and you might agree. Or maybe you'll love it. Either way I don't really care

It's clearly not utter garbage otherwise it would not be a top seller. I've drive them and it doesn't grab me (neither does the Focus in stock form which I've also driven).Your presumably a Ford fan, the Focus is the Corollas competitor and its specification and intent is not that much different...

On topic, Russels figures show Toyota Aussie business model to be superior on the surface compared to Ford and Holden's. What would be interesting to find out is why, the obvious one is they build a world car but I believe they also export?

The only we we could have had a continuing car manufacturing industry in Aus is if we had a truly Aussie one AND we kept import tariffs. For an example of that, look at Malaysia and Proton...in particular, the cost of cars here (I'm in KL currently)

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

From the graph, BA/BF and EF/EL were the best sellers. AU was a disaster, but it seems FG was a complete calamity...

Yet if you look at the sales graphs, the AU was a better performer than BA/BF.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by russellw

It means the combined loss for the three local manufacturers this last reporting year is $883.2m and over the last decade it's been $1,832m and even over the last 15 it's been $66.7m.

Individually, Ford have lost $1,104.8m over the last 10 years and $759.4m over the last 15 years.

Holden have lost $1,337.8m over the last 10 years but only $66.6m over the last 15 years.

Toyota have made $619.6m over the last 10 years and $759.3m over the last 15 years.


image

Cheers
Russ

Do you have a graph of how much was invested by the companies? Its pretty easy to work out you take every dollar that was given to them by the government and times it by 3. The losses won't look so bad.

[mik]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Yet if you look at the sales graphs, the AU was a better performer than BA/BF.

it would be interesting to see how much spondooly was spent on building both of those particular models, if memory serves the AU was around about 700 odd million ???

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Kieron

It's clearly not utter garbage otherwise it would not be a top seller.

Ah, popularity. We call that argumentum ad populum- the masses cannot be wrong. The same standard might also have you believing that McDonalds is good food. I could draw a few comparisons between McDonalds and Corollas, but that's for another discussion