How do you define them

[Boza]

Hey guys I was watching a review on jay leno's garage about the new challenger hellcat.
In the video the marketing guy from chrysler was saying this car is more of a muscle car then a pony car.

But when it comes to mustang's, camaro's cuda's challenger's half of the time people either call them muscle cars and the other half of the time people call them pomy car's.

What's the difference between a pony car and a muscle car and what define's them.

Also is like a mustang, or camaro a pony car or muscle car half the time they call them muscle car's the other half of the time they call them pony car's

I can speak english good but when it come's to reading and writing well it's my second language so my understanding of internet write up's on the definition og these car's is not good.

So can someone please explain in simple terms's what the two are.

[Vincenzo]

Hope this helps

http://www.zeroto60times.com/blog/20...can-pony-cars/


Cheers Vincenzo

[mik]

Gday Boca, my take on that would be he's saying the Chrysler is a much more dedicated serious muscle car, a pony car is a bit softer.

For me an XY GT is the essence of a true muscle car, it was built to be fast, it had a heavy clutch, manual steering, it could be difficult to control when driven hard and some of the other early muscle cars also fit this description.
The modern muscle car while still fast does everything easily handles brakes, stops, is nice to drive , and electronic safety aids makes it very hard to get out of shape, not putting them down they are desireable cars,but to me despite their speed potential they are more pony cars compared to the old muscle cars.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mik

Gday Boca, my take on that would be he's saying the Chrysler is a much more dedicated serious muscle car, a pony car is a bit softer.

For me an XY GT is the essence of a true muscle car, it was built to be fast, it had a heavy clutch, manual steering, it could be difficult to control when driven hard and some of the other early muscle cars also fit this description.
The modern muscle car while still fast does everything easily handles brakes, stops, is nice to drive , and electronic safety aids makes it very hard to get out of shape, not putting them down they are desireable cars,but to me despite their speed potential they are more pony cars compared to the old muscle cars.

Old Muscle car sounds like a death trap to me, massive engine in poor handling car thats a pain in the *** to drive.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Old Muscle car sounds like a death trap to me, massive engine in poor handling car thats a pain in the *** to drive.

At the same a lot of fun, and that was the technology at the time, I gaurantee if you got a drive in an old muscle car you would see them in a different light.

[LoudPipes]

The Yanks had such a wide range of vehicles in production.

I always thought the muscle was a full sized car and a pony was a smaller car.

A bit like an XY GT here would be muscle and a A9X Torana a pony.

[T-Pak Addict]

Funny thing tho.... an XY in the states would be seen as a pony car...

[2011G6E]

I heard it described once this way:

There are no cars, everyone in the street owns horses...ordinary horses.
Now, the kid next door however, has a simply adorable and nice looking little pony in her back yard that she looks after, cares for, and takes for an occasional ride around the place? It's a good little horse, does the job, and is more fun than a plodding ordinary every day horse.

Yeah, her. Well in your stable, you have a wild-eyed stallion that's hard to handle, is way to strong for it's own good, and while amazing fun to ride hard and fast, is a bit nasty to live with day to day.

That's the difference between a pony car and a muscle car...

[Boza]

but why do some say a mustang, camaro, dart or something like that is refered to as a pony car then some refer to them as muscle cars.

but with like a gto or impala or a galaxie 427 say that they are the real muscle cars.

[aussiblue]

Hope this helps

http://www.zeroto60times.com/blog/20...can-pony-cars/

Hmm I'd be a bit sceptical of a site that describes a Japanese made Mitsubishi Scorpion/Sapporo/Dodge Challenger as an "American Pony Car Icon".

[marty351]

I happen to have a scorpion, and never in my wild mind did I consider it a pony car.
Sure, It handles well and can go "fast", but a 2 litre engine on a 3 speed auto?
Maybe with a turbo or a mild 6 you could call it a pony car, but with 100hp or so it makes a good cruiser. Only.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by marty351

I happen to have a scorpion, and never in my wild mind did I consider it a pony car.
Sure, It handles well and can go "fast", but a 2 litre engine on a 3 speed auto?
Maybe with a turbo or a mild 6 you could call it a pony car, but with 100hp or so it makes a good cruiser. Only.

That's the point I was making in the old comment I heard many years ago. A "Pony" car was something special, something different, something sporty, something more compact...usually...than a "family" car, but not necessarily more powerful than your average car. Just something different.

Muscle cars are just that..."muscle".

[Whitey-AMG]

Difficult to make an association here for us aussies as we never really had "pony" cars en masse here. Basically old american purist terms to help with advertising and focus on a particular buying market.

If I had to make a wild modern day aussie association for gen Y - it would be something like this :

Pony Car - Mazda RX8 / Nissan 370Z - 2 door , Compact , stylish , sports oriented with good handling / performance straight out of the box. More about the styling and the overall look , but still with emphasis on performance. Mass appeal to youger market , yuppies , etc.

Muscle Car - FPV / HSV models - Skunkworks models , Big Power - fearsome in a straight line - struggle to steer round corners.... Not necessarily "stylish"
Emphasis on Power with the model in question being the most powerful in its model offering , GT, F6 , R8 , GTS etc.. as opposed to standard Falcon and commodore. Mass appeal to Bogans , Bogans , Bogans ....did I forget the Bogans. Hoons and nostalgia tragics.

Let the debate rage.......

[Road_Warrior]

Skunkworks models

This.

[aussiblue]

The term "pony car" was borne with the arrival of the Ford Mustang (a wild horse/pony) and is used to describe the Mustang and it's competitors; compact highly stylised cars (often coupes) with sporting pretentions (or even real sporting capabilities) that were available with 6 cylinder engines as well as V8's. Muscle cars were larger family sized car fitted with big block V8's renowned for straight line acceleration rather than handling.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_cars

By North American standards, all the Oz supercars including the GTHO would be seen as pony cars as they are smaller compact cars compared to the much larger US cars of the same era (1970's and earlier) and none have big blocks. But I guess many Australians see most of the Bathurst specials (Ford's GTHO's, Chrysler's E38/E49, and Holden's L34, A9X, Monaro GTS as muscle cars) although a XU-1 couldn't be called a muscle car given it small size and small engine.

[The FOMOCO]

An american muscle car is a full sized car that usually has a big block Galaxie Gto Charger ETC a pony car is as said by others is smaller Mustang Camero Challenger etc and small block motor .We didnt have Big Block full sized cars produced in Australia we only had small block cars but labelled them as muscle cars anyway .Because thats what they mean to us our GT'S Monaroes and Chryslers. I think Muscle cars are old cars from the 60's and 70's not new cars from say the late 70'S onwards.New hi tech cars are not muscle cars there just fast new cars

[SSD-85]

I define a muscle car as something that places emphasis on engine power, with other characteristics (design, suspension, etc) being an afterthought.

A pony car, I believe was a term coined for a vehicle smaller in dimensions. Having engine, chassis, etc specifications that did not merit the term sports car, but nor the outright power of a muscle car. And was not "economically" driven enough to be referred as a compact.

For example, the mustang started out as a "pony car". Small in size, with modest handling & power outputs for the time. But due to its popularity, evolved into more of a muscle car. But in the 80s, reverted back to its original intent based on customer opinion. After that, once again gaining traction as the "hero" car of muscle characteristics.

Similar to the Thunderbird really. Its roots define it as a personal luxury car. Which in the 50s, meant a 2 seat, small euro-inspired vehicle. But as consumer taste changed, so did it. And so as a "personal luxury car" eventually evolved into a 5 seat land barge. By the time of the 90s, it was eventually a mid-sized, 5 seat, 2 door modest in spec.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving." Fitted with a large V8 engine in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.

Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Boza

Hey guys I was watching a review on jay leno's garage about the new challenger hellcat.
In the video the marketing guy from chrysler was saying this car is more of a muscle car then a pony car.

But when it comes to mustang's, camaro's cuda's challenger's half of the time people either call them muscle cars and the other half of the time people call them pomy car's.

What's the difference between a pony car and a muscle car and what define's them.

Also is like a mustang, or camaro a pony car or muscle car half the time they call them muscle car's the other half of the time they call them pony car's

I can speak english good but when it come's to reading and writing well it's my second language so my understanding of internet write up's on the definition og these car's is not good.

So can someone please explain in simple terms's what the two are.

Basically Pony cars are muscle cars...........in yank speak there are 3 classes of muscle car, pony cars (compact), intermediates which were slightly bigger, a good example would be the Mustang which changed from a pony car to an intermediate in 1971 when the new larger body shape was introduced, our XA Falcon would also be classed as an intermediate under this definition, while the XY and earlier models would be classed as pony cars. The final class is called full size which would include cars like Fairlanes, LTDs etc.

Cheers Mick

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Pony car is an American class of automobile launched and inspired by the Ford Mustang in 1964. The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image.

Correct.
The "original" Mustangs were "Pony" cars because they were basically re-bodied Falcons, with either 6's or small V8's. ie the same running gear & engine as Ma & Pa's sedan.
So (albeit in very diluted form) cars like the XR6 are "Pony" cars. A body kit, some bling, a few stripes and a sporty name, but underneath just a stock Falcon.
A Muscle car is one step up. Still based on a mundane (and therefore cheap) platform, with a few improvements, and a disproportionately powerful engine, essentially giving maximum bang for your buck.
The GT's of old certainly tended towards that.

The problem of classification is that in many cases the "same" car filled both roles. A Mustang (or a Falcon Coupe) with your basic 6 would be a Pony Car. Drop in a 351 or big block, and you're into Muscle car territory.
Similarly, the ecoboost Mustang will sit firmly in "Pony" class, but the inevitable Roush or Shelby versions of the V8 will definitely be Muscle Cars.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Correct.
The "original" Mustangs were "Pony" cars because they were basically re-bodied Falcons, with either 6's or small V8's. ie the same running gear & engine as Ma & Pa's sedan.
So (albeit in very diluted form) cars like the XR6 are "Pony" cars. A body kit, some bling, a few stripes and a sporty name, but underneath just a stock Falcon.
A Muscle car is one step up. Still based on a mundane (and therefore cheap) platform, with a few improvements, and a disproportionately powerful engine, essentially giving maximum bang for your buck.
The GT's of old certainly tended towards that.

The problem of classification is that in many cases the "same" car filled both roles. A Mustang (or a Falcon Coupe) with your basic 6 would be a Pony Car. Drop in a 351 or big block, and you're into Muscle car territory.
Similarly, the ecoboost Mustang will sit firmly in "Pony" class, but the inevitable Roush or Shelby versions of the V8 will definitely be Muscle Cars.

XR6 would be classed as an Intermediate..........a Pony car factory fitted with a High performance motor, which can be either a small block or big block V8 is in fact a compact muscle car.........that's how it's viewed in the US, all 3 classes that I stated in the above post Pony, Intermediate and Full size if factory fitted with Hipo power trains are viewed as Muscle Cars in the US.

Cheers Mick

[blackf6]

A muscle car- handles like crap, has no brakes. Can't go around a corner. But goes like a scalded cat in a straight line.