Old School vs Generation Y

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by ratter

I've been working on cars now for over 30 years so I guess that makes me a little qualified to voice an opinion on something I see day in and day out.
Rust is not the only thing that will cause a car to deteriorate.
But speaking of rust, Only 2 weeks ago I had a territory on the hoist, it was rusting around the front rails near the firewall, this was a 2 year old car that does not tow a boat at all, speaking of territories, we see quite a few rusting under the bonnet near the firewall, what do you think these will be like in 5 or even 10 years time?

I'm not living in the past thinking that old cars are better than new cars, far from it and in fact have been known to preach to some die hards that think a car with chrome bumpers is far superior than a car with plastic bumpers.

I'm definitely not questioning your qualifications. This rust that people talk about on Territories is not the same kind of rust that the old cars have i.e. you can't poke your finger through the firewall? What, a bit of surface rust? My AU has that on the boot where the paint has worn off on the inside edge. Big deal, it will never go beyond that where I can actually break a bit off!

Don't get me wrong, I love old cars and I'm actually looking for one now. But I can remember my dad saying 'they don't make cars like they used to'. He said this to me over 25 years ago. Meanwhile, my XF and NC kick along while the older cars have been resigned to the rust heap.

[gtxb67]

i bought both my coupe and na when they were 14 years old - the coupe was in much better condition

the na had rust around the rear wheel arches after 14 years. the coupe has never had rust there. overall, comparing the 2 cars, the coupe has been virtually rust free


now i am sure the condition of any car is based on how it was treated, which makes it impossible to compare accurately, but the coupe's build quality and longevity wins hands down in my experience

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i bought both my coupe and na when they were 14 years old - the coupe was in much better condition

the na had rust around the rear wheel arches after 14 years. the coupe has never had rust there. overall, comparing the 2 cars, the coupe has been virtually rust free


now i am sure the condition of any car is based on how it was treated, which makes it impossible to compare accurately, but the coupe's build quality and longevity wins hands down in my experience

I've been looking for an XA - XC for a few months now. I have not come across one that didn't have rust. I'm talking unrestored here.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I've been looking for an XA - XC for a few months now. I have not come across one that didn't have rust. I'm talking unrestored here.

but they are 34-40 years old now

for sure, most of the coupes we looked at back in 87 were wasting our time, but from my own personal experience . . . my coupe has been a gem. wheel arches and quarters have been rust free. the only sill problems were from the fairmont trims (they have not been touched since 1990. the parcel shelf has never been touched. it had 2 repairs behind the back window (1 small one before I bought it and 1 around the size of a 20 cent piece back in the early 90's)

every ones experience will differ, but mine is that the xb was a better built car

to me both old cars and new cars are better - but for reasons that make comparisons a waste of time

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

I've been looking for an XA - XC for a few months now. I have not come across one that didn't have rust. I'm talking unrestored here.

They are out there for sure ..... seen alot that are unrestored with very minimal rust. Many of those that are rust free have been restored as other things deteriorate.

[P6LTD351]

A bit off topic but you guys know what you're talking about. I have found an XC GXL 5.8 auto that I'm interested in. It does have minor rust in the doors but none elsewhere. What should I be paying?

[Auslandau]

8-12k depending on actual condition and colour.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I'm of the Gen-Y heritage... and my green thinking is this:

- My F6 is faster than your Prius, thus I take less time and have less time to produce said emissions
- Because my trip time is shorter in duration, I spend less time on the road, thus reduce overall traffic and congestion
- Having a more powerful engine means it doesn't have to labour as much with a full car load, thus less emissions

As far as creating Australian jobs goes, I'm at the bowser at least once a week for $100+, therefore they can justify keeping extra staff.

I'm doing my part! What about you?

[washoutbeach]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

A bit off topic but you guys know what you're talking about. I have found an XC GXL 5.8 auto that I'm interested in. It does have minor rust in the doors but none elsewhere. What should I be paying?

Its a beautiful shape that car.

And to hear the big throaty monster behind you sends chills down the spine.

The rust should be OK to cut out, but like any project, its going to cost a whole lot more, a massive amount more than you think.

But the love is in the journey-bringing the big old girl to shine.

If you like the colour, if the interior is in good nick, worth paying a few overs to get her into the garage.

Because theres still some romance in a bloke doing up an old car.

The shape of this beast, threatening and revengeful. Huge attitude car.

Go for it.

[washoutbeach]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

I'm of the Gen-Y heritage... and my green thinking is this:

- My F6 is faster than your Prius, thus I take less time and have less time to produce said emissions
- Because my trip time is shorter in duration, I spend less time on the road, thus reduce overall traffic and congestion
- Having a more powerful engine means it doesn't have to labour as much with a full car load, thus less emissions

As far as creating Australian jobs goes, I'm at the bowser at least once a week for $100+, therefore they can justify keeping extra staff.

I'm doing my part! What about you?

Thats got to be post of the week.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

If your G6E is maintained properly, of course it will be rolling like new in 30 years.

I think we have a romantic view of old cars when in all realism, they did not make them to last; they made them to rust.

People say cars aren't made out of steel anymore. Really? So because the bumpers are plastic, then the whole car is?

My 18 yr old NC, 17 yr old EF and 26 yr old XF have never been restored and have absolutely NO rust. Rewind to the glory days of the 70s. I reckon XA-XCs were already rusting from factory!

No doubt the G6E will last pretty well...but realistically, when I look at it, as much as I love it, I doubt it.
The panels are that thin it isn't funny. They don't bother painting the engine blocks or other metal parts, meaning that the rust (while it mightn't affect a lump of cast iron in much of a way) will obviously attack whatever is bolted to it. I've already cleaned up and sprayed rust converter on some places where something bolts to the engine...I can foresee a problem in years to come here and there. The paint is very thin (Edge colour)...you can mark it with a fingernail, and I got Ford to have a look to see if it was done properly. They said yep, they're all like that. The interior is plastic, just like my old Celica, but it's flimsy plastic, not very solid or thick.

I know these things are done to keep costs down, but come on...what's wrong with making cars a little more solid? However, seeing as how the FG is something like half a tonne heavier already than Falcons of years past (heavier even than our large thickly-panelled steel bumpered XC GXL Fairmont), then I suppose it's all done in a desperate effort to keep the weight down.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

This rust that people talk about on Territories is not the same kind of rust that the old cars have i.e. you can't poke your finger through the firewall? What, a bit of surface rust? My AU has that on the boot where the paint has worn off on the inside edge. Big deal, it will never go beyond that where I can actually break a bit off!

.

Correct, the territory rust was not bad enough to poke a finger through, but it was only 2 years old, give it another ten years and lets see what we can do, most rust holes etc start off as surface rust, whether from the putside or the inside, if your AU has surface rust and you let it go untreated and keep it long enough, you will be able to break flakes off it or poke your finger through it. Good ide to gett it treated if you plan on keeping the car.

[bingoTE50]

I cannot even remember what gen is what, could not care really . I am 49 have two teenage kids , 19 year old son , and a soon 17 year old daughter . Both smart , respectful , caring citizens. I like their friends , I talk to them and listen to their hopes and dreams. Fascinating to see your kids transcend to adult hood. I feel very sorry for parents who do not show an interest .
And I am very thankful for Microsoft and codemasters for the XBOX and F1 2011 ,and because my son just went out i'm off to play online ...see ya ...

[H.G]

back in the old days (btw, what was it like before colour was invented?)
my old man ived in a place so cold.. to keep thier feet warm they would find fresh horse poo to stand in.. the hills home were so steep they had to piggy back thier horses up them.. slim dusty played a kerosene guitar...
funny thing is though.. my dad grew up in a tent.. then a dirt floor house made of canvas until his father built the house.. they were so poor they even had to rent the tent.. really its all good stories that you old farts have.. unfortunately this generations stories will be less colourful and spoken with acronyms if even spoken at all.. maybe it will be texted ..

[Trek]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I wasn't around in 1970, hence why I don't really appreciate the cars from back then.

I am by no means trying to be harsh/insult here, however, there's a lot that could be said, but it's like you can't draw a connection to what excites a large percentage of the members around here. You're missing out until you experience it. I know others have said similar to you, but you insist on just questioning it - maybe you never will understand in a way that makes you also interested in real cars.

Modern cars are largely stale in appearance and feel - but this difference really only becomes apparent when you know from personal experience.

At least I can find peace in knowing that others younger than you haven't forgotten/failed to learn what is so great here - especially the ones doing up/driving XB's and XC's (and any other Falcon predating the XD - Same also applies to those driving Pre-Commodore Holdens/Chrome bumper Mopars)

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yes it was fast for its time, but you'll find even modern V8s are a lot cleaner with what comes out of the exhaust. Remember when Top Gear Australia put the GTHO around the track and a FG XT beat it? Thats the thing, back in the 70s it was amazing, not by todays standards.

I wasn't around in 1970, hence why I don't really appreciate the cars from back then.

New cars aren't hard to maintain, oil and filter is still easy, most cars these days have HLAs, so no checking/adjusting valve clearances.

Modern engines also have much tighter clearances, use thinner oils and go longer between each oil and filter change.

EFI was invented because of emissions regulations, carby simply wouldn't cut it anymore, there are a lot of benefits in regards to everything when it comes to EFI; power, emissions, cold starts, etc. Being able to time precisely how much fuel and exactly what time it goes in and managing spark has its benefits.

Everyone thinks new cars aren't reliable, but in over 300,000km we haven't had many issues with the old mans 2003 Mazda 323, or in 250,000km my mums 1999 WF Festiva, my 2010 Focus had an issue with a dodgy battery but that wasn't the cars fault.

How many people would go back to driving a car from the 60s/70s as their main car after the last 40 years of improvements?

mate I think it’s one of those if you have to ask you won’t understand type moments

I personally think new cars are extremely reliable but they are Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo booooooooooooooooooooooooring, but this in my opinion isn’t a bragging right when talking with your mates

Honestly if distance between servicing is an important factor in what car we own I really have missed something, I have never considered a car a good car simply because it hasn’t had any issues, yea I’ve had cars that have never let me down, but they were as forgettable as their plastic hubcaps and easy care cloth trim.

New cars lack a feel, a style, it’s difficult to explain but just sitting in one makes you feel alive, you can’t add that with an aftermarket stereo or Bob Jane alloys it’s in the honesty (or dishonesty) of its creation, from a time when we did judge things with spec sheets, we looked at things and had an opinion.

I was around in the 70’s (born in 72) but I didn’t really notice cars until the XD (a car I’m not overly fond of), the cars I love are from long before my time a time I really can only imagine and is based on conversations with old blokes at BBQ’s and so on.

Every chance I get I drive an old car, yea I drive a 3 month old car every day but it is a real yawn fest, but if I go somewhere after work I take an old car, every Friday I drive my wife’s 38 to work just cause I can, its slow, it’s got a side valve motor buggy springs beam front axle drum brakes and cross ply tyres, it’s an hour each way and I love it.

Damo do yourself a favour, find someone with a cool old car and ask to go for a ride, you won’t look at a new car the same way again.

[washoutbeach]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

mate I think it’s one of those if you have to ask you won’t understand type moments

I personally think new cars are extremely reliable but they are Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo booooooooooooooooooooooooring, but this in my opinion isn’t a bragging right when talking with your mates

Honestly if distance between servicing is an important factor in what car we own I really have missed something, I have never considered a car a good car simply because it hasn’t had any issues, yea I’ve had cars that have never let me down, but they were as forgettable as their plastic hubcaps and easy care cloth trim.

New cars lack a feel, a style, it’s difficult to explain but just sitting in one makes you feel alive, you can’t add that with an aftermarket stereo or Bob Jane alloys it’s in the honesty (or dishonesty) of its creation, from a time when we did judge things with spec sheets, we looked at things and had an opinion.

I was around in the 70’s (born in 72) but I didn’t really notice cars until the XD (a car I’m not overly fond of), the cars I love are from long before my time a time I really can only imagine and is based on conversations with old blokes at BBQ’s and so on.

Every chance I get I drive an old car, yea I drive a 3 month old car every day but it is a real yawn fest, but if I go somewhere after work I take an old car, every Friday I drive my wife’s 38 to work just cause I can, its slow, it’s got a side valve motor buggy springs beam front axle drum brakes and cross ply tyres, it’s an hour each way and I love it.

Damo do yourself a favour, find someone with a cool old car and ask to go for a ride, you won’t look at a new car the same way again.

I second the sentiments expressed above.

From time to time I have had older cars I could trick and improvise with and it was a lot of fun experimenting and experiencing the results.

At the end of the year, I will be looking to buy an older car, probably pay a bit too much for it and then enjoy many happy hours bringing it back as close as I can to its "feel" when it was new.

And apart from the mechanics, I will enjoy restoring its interior to as pristine a state as I can manage.

No rational economic reason at all, no safety reason, no show-off reason. I am going to enjoy the journey and then the results.

I cant get anything near this experience in a newish car. Wouldn't even bother getting my head around tarting up a VZ. Cant feel the love at all in that proposal!

[mr smith]

The only reason I drove an old car and did all he hot ups myself when young was because I was poor. In 1990 I drove a 1967 Fairmont 289, I would have swaped it in a second for an EA Ghia.
As for now? I love my FG XR, f^&k old school, Im livin the dream.
As for boring....WTF. If anyone thinks a modern performace car is boring they should give up their ticket and take the bus.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Here is an email i recieved recently which pretty much sums it up.
Gen -Y"s think they know it all, but the old school know better.

Good for a laugh , but also true.
All comments welcome.
The Green Thing
For older/or slightly more mature folks (like me) to read & enjoy
Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the older woman that she should bring her own shopping bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized and explained, "We didn't have this green thing back in my earlier days."

The cashier responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations."

She was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day. Back then, we returned milk bottles, pop bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recledyc. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

That's just glass, many other materials are used besides glass.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every shop and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.[We didnt need electric cars made of plastic and have to build nuclear power stations full of radioactive material to run them. Our cars where steel and leather which are bio-degradable , not plastic, and glue, and nasty chemicals and batteries that destroy the planet. Our cars produced carbon that made the trees grow.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Current power is far cleaner and more efficient. Nuclear is far greener than coal lol. As for batteries, far more dangerous elements than lead (ie Mercury) were thrown around in ridiculous amounts. Every resource was rapidly inefficiently consumed. Those trees may be growing but that ozone layer be a shrinking, see how those trees grow then.

Back then, we washed the baby's nappies because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

Machines burn Watts/energy not a force, seems many perceptions of this Author come from fundamental misconcpetions towards electricity. Heat dried your clothes. Kids still get hand me down clothes? People still have clothes lines and as time is passing household kwph consumption is lowering.


But that young lady is right. We didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the post, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn petrol just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right. We didn't have the green thing back then.

LED's use significantly less power than tube. We try to reduce paper use in this day and age. In this day and age we don't even have lawns on unnecessarily big blocks like the old days. I'm sure white collar workers existed back then, it's probably just education didn't.

We drank water from a fountain or a tap when we were thirsty instead of demanding a plastic bottle flown in from another country. We accepted that a lot of food was seasonal and didn’t expect that to be bucked by flying it thousands of air miles around the world. We actually cooked food that didn’t come out of a packet, tin or plastic wrap and we could even wash our own vegetables and chop our own salad.

Bottled water is pure and unlike tap water isn't full of chemicals. Fresh is best, (hence the packaging). I still wash/chop my vegetables and could even choose to grow them myself if I want.


But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the tram or a bus, and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their mothers into a 24-hour taxi service. We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.


Again with the electricity!!!

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart-*** young person.

Remember: Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to **** us off.

I think the almost all the Authors misconceptions come from failing to comprehend electricity and his struggle to let go of mechanical technology. They are basically the same thing which can be understood in the exact same way. Maybe not with your eyes but with your brain. Anyone with a high school physics education will tell you that, evidently no one back then has.

The oldies guzzled every known resource to man by the exatonne. Even if we wanted to compete with them in destroying the world there'd be no resources left to destroy the world with!!!!

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by MWTB

Something that ****** me off about a lot of people my age is they seem to think it's okay to not work and to just sponge off of mum and dad. I've got so many friends that have never worked in their life and claim they can't get a job because 'no one is hiring'.

We are heading for a time when most any pension, will simply cease to exist. Extreme? Perhaps, but it'll eventuate.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by H.G

unfortunately this generations stories will be less colourful and spoken with acronyms if even spoken at all.. maybe it will be texted ..

Yeah itll be text on their colourfull ipods, tablets or the like ,but,
You wont know how to cook for yourself, wash your own clothes. change a tyre, know where engine oil goes, know how to check the oil ,oh hang on use the thing with the big coloured handle ...

I know of a mid 20s woman who cant cook a toasted sandwich !!!
Doesnt even know how to cook a flippin omelete
Buys , breaky,lunch ,dinner every day
Thank god for maccas and the like, this gen would starve wouldnt they

And they whinge their getting large, get of ya backside and i dunno do a google on the thing called , exercise ......

There were never any large kids when i went to school, we ate all the bad things that were sprayed with all the bad things,schooled in rooms with lead paint, drove smog ridden old cars,rode push bikes without helmets , gee we even had to mow the oldies lawn with the old mower when still in primary school, that didnt have stoopid labels like, dont put feet or hands,under when blades moving, we had tins that didnt have stoopid warnings like, dont lick open tin rim
My nephew was asked to mow the lawn other week, mid teens, told his ol man , not his job, well i pulled that when young,it would be my job for life,plus all the other chours that id magically aquired for being a smarty pants and disrespecting my parents , fancy that getting away with back chatting the oldies,ah the young gen, get away with murder

[babyf6]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Yeah itll be text on their colourfull ipods, tablets or the like ,but,
You wont know how to cook for yourself, wash your own clothes. change a tyre, know where engine oil goes, know how to check the oil ,oh hang on use the thing with the big coloured handle ...

I know of a mid 20s woman who cant cook a toasted sandwich !!!
Doesnt even know how to cook a flippin omelete
Buys , breaky,lunch ,dinner every day
Thank god for maccas and the like, this gen would starve wouldnt they

And they whinge their getting large, get of ya backside and i dunno do a google on the thing called , exercise ......

There were never any large kids when i went to school, we ate all the bad things that were sprayed with all the bad things,schooled in rooms with lead paint, drove smog ridden old cars,rode push bikes without helmets , gee we even had to mow the oldies lawn with the old mower when still in primary school, that didnt have stoopid labels like, dont put feet or hands,under when blades moving, we had tins that didnt have stoopid warnings like, dont lick open tin rim
My nephew was asked to mow the lawn other week, mid teens, told his ol man , not his job, well i pulled that when young,it would be my job for life,plus all the other chours that id magically aquired for being a smarty pants and disrespecting my parents , fancy that getting away with back chatting the oldies,ah the young gen, get away with murder

Hahah, i am 15, and i get what your saying. When i was helping my mum clean houses, there was this kid at his grandmothers from geelong. She asked him to mow her yard (hardly a quarter of an acre). He started yelling at her saying 'I didn't come here to do that, i come here to sleep'. I offered to mow the yard for her in exchange for her grandson cleaning the rest of the house. I have never seen a 16yr old teenager that just got out of bed move so fast. He started up the mower and started before you could blink.

[H.G]

its easy to see the generation gaps though.. I mean most of the kids geting licences these days have never driven a car that didnt have air con,power steering,ABS etc etc.. as has been stated.. all these things are great modern day comforts.. but they have raped the essence of driving a vehicle for pure pleasure.
most fun vehicle I ever got the privellage to drive was my old mans 1964 dodge ute.. driving in a straight line was a full time job, and after an hour or so behind the wheel.. you could feel it. but I loved that feeling.. not too many would though I assume. chalk and cheese , oil and water.

[babyf6]

Originally Posted by H.G

its easy to see the generation gaps though.. I mean most of the kids geting licences these days have never driven a car that didnt have air con,power steering,ABS etc etc.. as has been stated.. all these things are great modern day comforts.. but they have raped the essence of driving a vehicle for pure pleasure.
most fun vehicle I ever got the privellage to drive was my old mans 1964 dodge ute.. driving in a straight line was a full time job, and after an hour or so behind the wheel.. you could feel it. but I loved that feeling.. not too many would though I assume. chalk and cheese , oil and water.

I got a car that has no luxuries. My headland bomb 1983 hilux 4x4 petrol. No ABS, No aircon, nothin. Just a ute with windows, a 2litre engine and a very makeshift seat. It is still there, just you are sitting on a very thin piece of foam with springs sticking out of the seat. But i still love driving it. Why? it gives me a feeling of freedom and pleasure that you probably cannot get out of its modern day counterpart

[TheInterceptor]

When i got my red P's 2 years ago, i bought a 1983 Subaru wagon. The most advanced thing in it was an 8w AM radio and the most technical incident prevention system in the vehicle was the driver.
Ultra mega basic! No air con, no power steering, no power nothing. But i loved it, from the smells of the carby motor to the shift of the 4sp. It had character and it felt great to drive! Seats were shocking, ride wasn't fantastic, gearbox wasn't fantastic...but i loved it. 40 degree summers day? Open each door, roll each window down and off you go!

Most kids these days are missing out

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by MWTB

.......... I'm 21 and work two jobs 45-50 hours a week (6 days...and 12 hours minimum, 6 days a week at my previous job - 72 hours minimum a week) yet he still thinks I don't know anything about working because 'kids these days have it too easy with their mobile phones and internets'.............

I only read the first page of this thread and am not interested in getting into a "we're better than you" argument.

All I can say is good on you mate.
I'm an old dude but I admire young people like you that are not afraid to do the hard yards to get ahead.

[Hell Cat]

I'm gen Y (24 next month).

I've been living away from my parents since I was 18, I ran my own business for the past 3yrs (just stopped at the start of this year to work for a different place), I will start my business up again in a couple of years.

My mrs & myself have just brought a house, the house is a cool early 60s modern style house.
I own a brand new Citroën work van, an xp sedan & an xm hardtop, don't own a credit card.


Damn I'm lazy,

[H.G]

Im 36, whats my generation called again?
I thought it was X but who knows..

[BHDOGS]

Yup you oldies sure messed up the parents of today that's for sure