Why does the 2015/2016 Falcon need to have a V6? - Page 5

SteveJH · 07-09-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedutchman92

What are you talking about? Tell me one user who doesn't frequently give it a squirt to rev cut to achieve max power @ 5250 ish rpm and in terms of torque it would be a challenge not to hit peak output during everyday driving.

1) Most probably. Don't know about the rest, but the only time mine (older SOHC 6) gets anywhere near peak power is when accelerating onto the highway from a side road.

2) Fairly sure its quite easy to get your car to 50-70km/h without getting to 3,250rpm.

AMGC63 · 07-09-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

1) Most probably. Don't know about the rest, but the only time mine (older SOHC 6) gets anywhere near peak power is when accelerating onto the highway from a side road.

2) Fairly sure its quite easy to get your car to 50-70km/h without getting to 3,250rpm.

I wouldn't mind betting the vast majority of cars sold have never hit their rev limiter... Most would spend the majority of their time from idle to 3500 rpm max....

thedutchman92 · 07-09-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMGC63

I wouldn't mind betting the vast majority of cars sold have never hit their rev limiter... Most would spend the majority of their time from idle to 3500 rpm max....

That ain't livin' Darren

Fairwell-fg · 07-09-2011, 01:38 PM

if the falcon goes v6 ill die lol

**Polyal** · 07-09-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

I think the only reason why we're having a sook over the I6 going is (for me, anyway), the huge job losses associated with it. The I6 as it stands employs more than 1,000 people either directly or indirectly. Not a small number for something that is only used in one country, by two vehicles.

I'm a fan of some good V6 engines. Datsun make a good one, as did MMAL - their last 3.5 was a cracker. Let's not base our judgement on a V6 solely on the Buick disaster that Holden imported, originally with a sticker saying "Not for Longitudinal Applications" on the crate. The 3.7 hauled the Falcon (in 123 guise) pretty damn well from all accounts, and with some local tweaking, direct injection, forced induction, and a decent gearbox, we'll mourn the I6 for a while, life will go on, and we may still get a Locally Built, Locally Engineered, Rear Wheel Drive, Falcon Sized vehicle.

Commodore went on when they put the Datsun I6 in it (and then the Buick disaster), however Falcon can not live on unless it has a V6 in it. No ifs, no buts - if we want another Falcon after FG, it will have a V6 in it.

It took all the bantering of 4 odd pages to get to the real issue here. How is FoA going to fill the employment void when the I6 goes, which if we want to keep the falcon then its pretty much a certainty IMO. Even if the Gov does want to help keep the I6 until its used more widely, or the falcon somehow gets some exports I cant see it staying.

The Falcon I6 will go down as one of the best (performance) like the Chrysler's 265. Such is life, but for me jobs are > than engine layout regardless of torque, kws or displacement.

JG34JA · 07-09-2011, 08:39 PM

Great discussion from all sides. Personally I'd love to see the I6 soldier on (and have been a new-car buyer of it), but if Australian made north-south RWD/AWD models get to continue with access to Dearborn's V6 tech, so be it. All in an environment of a depreciating USD to the Aussie as well...
For my 2c, I love the lazy torque, muscularity and honest, reliable nature of the inline motor; it is a defining feature of the cars of my youth and early adult life. This topic has got me thinking, which models have been the I6 highlights (not all were turbo) - probably a subject for another thread...

If I get a chance to buy another newy before 2016, I'll take it. One question: will EcoLpi continue if I6 goes?

fou_bleu · 07-09-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG34JA

One question: will EcoLpi continue if I6 goes?

My guess? Probably not.

By the time the hard decisions are made, LPG will cost the same as petrol/litre, so unless they can get LPG to achieve similar mileage to petrol AND emit the same or even less C02 etc., I'm guessing no.

That's an uneducated guess too!

Bossxr8 · 07-09-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

My guess? Probably not.

By the time the hard decisions are made, LPG will cost the same as petrol/litre, so unless they can get LPG to achieve similar mileage to petrol AND emit the same or even less C02 etc., I'm guessing no.

That's an uneducated guess too!

The LPG excise is maxed at 12.5 cents a litre, so LPG will never be anywhere near petrol.

LPi could be developed to fit the V6, it wouldn't be that hard to do. But wether Ford wopuld choose to do it or not is up to them. The new Mondeo/Taurus will more than likely have a Hybrid version which could be the economy choice.

fou_bleu · 07-09-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The LPG excise is maxed at 12.5 cents a litre, so LPG will never be anywhere near petrol.

It might be today, it might be tomorrow, but can you really be confident that it will be in 4-5 years???

nstg8a · 07-09-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

It might be today, it might be tomorrow, but can you really be confident that it will be in 4-5 years???

by that logic then maybe premium will be $3.50 a litre by then, so lpg will still be cheaper.

Road_Warrior · 07-09-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

It might be today, it might be tomorrow, but can you really be confident that it will be in 4-5 years???

The full 12.5cpl excise won't be realised for another 5 years anyway!

flappist · 07-09-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The LPG excise is maxed at 12.5 cents a litre, so LPG will never be anywhere near petrol.

LPi could be developed to fit the V6, it wouldn't be that hard to do. But wether Ford wopuld choose to do it or not is up to them. The new Mondeo/Taurus will more than likely have a Hybrid version which could be the economy choice.

I am always amazed that so many believe this is an absolute when the same people have said there will never be a carbon tax, there will never be a GST, no child will be living in poverty by 1990 etc.

Hint guys, they tend to lie a lot and will back flip on anything if it suits them.......

I saw LPG at 97c/l a couple of weeks ago in a place were ULP was $1.41/l.

EFFalcon · 08-09-2011, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I saw LPG at 97c/l a couple of weeks ago in a place were ULP was $1.41/l.

And i'm still seeing LPG at 55cpl with ULP at 1.41

location location location

aussie muscle · 08-09-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

1) Most probably. Don't know about the rest, but the only time mine (older SOHC 6) gets anywhere near peak power is when accelerating onto the highway from a side road.

which i do twice every day. 0-100 makes driving a v8 daily worthwhile.

i don't like revving my car past 4000rpm. call it mechanical sympathy if you like.

Why does the 2015/2016 Falcon need to have a V6?
it doesn't, but this is the only application in the world that uses it. If Ford NA started offering the i6 in their F Trucks, it's future would be assured.

**Polyal** · 08-09-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

And i'm still seeing LPG at 55cpl with ULP at 1.41

location location location

It does make a massive difference. I filled up at 54.3 this morning and could have gone to woolies and got it for 50 flat but I CBF'd going the extra distance (which is not far..2 mins..LOL).

Long term that excise people like to bring up every 5 secs is nothing compared to the comparative savings.

burnz · 08-09-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

And i'm still seeing LPG at 55cpl with ULP at 1.41

location location location

the point that he's making is that govco will not raise taxes on it..
govco wouldn't lie to you would they??

trbo 6 · 08-09-2011, 01:19 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but the CX-9 has the 3.7l V6. It's a very heavy car and this motor has no problems getting it moving. I think the new motor is a great thing and "should" bring the cost of the falcon down.

Not to mention we can sit back and let the US do all the R&D on performance upgrades. They have put a procharger on the Mustang and got 427hp @ 8psi.

Disclaimer: I take everything said about the new motor back if they make the Falcon FWD.

EFFalcon · 08-09-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

the point that he's making is that govco will not raise taxes on it..
govco wouldn't lie to you would they??

and regardless of what tax they put on it, it will likely still come down to location.

12.5 is easy to cop when its currenty 60cpl, still puts it on 1/2 the price of ULP.

easier for people in Melbourne to justify LPG then people in harvey bay.

X000BOSS · 08-09-2011, 03:37 PM

they need to have a v6 because it is much more economically viable. as stated earlier, people call a 6 a v6 anyway, the uninformed think that a v6 is better and has "wow" factor. it will be cheaper to make a FWD and easier to market. if ford aus want the falcon to live on, they will have to use a v6. its a shame really, i love the ford inline6 but thats the way the cookie crumbles..
they cant keep the great inline6 (great in our eyes) because a hand full or few hunderd or a few thousand loyalists want them to. its not about people who are loyal and love the brand and product, its about the bottom dollar.
1 more thing to remember is they will not be using vn v6's, its a different v6 and doesnt compare to the buick engine.

flappist · 08-09-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

and regardless of what tax they put on it, it will likely still come down to location.

12.5 is easy to cop when its currenty 60cpl, still puts it on 1/2 the price of ULP.

easier for people in Melbourne to justify LPG then people in harvey bay.

Actually the 97c was over the border in northern NSW, here it is 80 odd c/l.

The problem you will have is that it will not be taxed heavily until it becomes a main stream product and has an actual impact on the revinue raised.

When I was young diesel was half the price of petrol and only semi-trailers and a very rare european car used it. 4WDs all only used petrol.

Then all of a sudden diesel was the fuel of choice for the SUV generation and econ-bubbles and econ-vans popped up everywhere and now diesel is dearer than petrol.

Only a truly naive person would believe that this will not happen to LPG if it becomes popular with new car buyers.....

dimka100 · 08-09-2011, 05:24 PM

I say Ford bring us the 3.7L Ti-VCT V-6, 227KW, 380NM , all Aluminum Engine which would easily weight a lot less than the current I6 and sit lower too ...

Franco Cozzo · 08-09-2011, 05:47 PM

Going FWD wouldn't be bad, think about it, transverse engine means it could have AWD as well.

FWD base models, AWD performance models.

FWD has its benefits, more space efficient design, less losses through driveline etc.

SteveJH · 08-09-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Going FWD wouldn't be bad, think about it, transverse engine means it could have AWD as well.

FWD base models, AWD performance models.

FWD has its benefits, more space efficient design, less losses through driveline etc.

They can do that with longditudinal layouts as well. Aka. Audi.

Road_Warrior · 08-09-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

I say Ford bring us the 3.7L Ti-VCT V-6, 227KW, 380NM , all Aluminum Engine which would easily weight a lot less than the current I6 and sit lower too ...

And would mean the Falcon could have a shorter front overhang and the engine could sit behind the front axle, aiding weight distribution and handling.