What is happening to our country?

[balthazarr]

From http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...216-kxdw.html:

Backflips on protesters and privacy leave us all in the dark
December 17, 2009

Confusion still reigns over deals done on controversial projects.

IT IS nearly two weeks since The Age broke the story that the Government has done a deal on Victoria's $3.5 billion desalination plant, under which police have agreed to provide sensitive information about protesters to the private consortium building the plant.

Since then the police and the Government have sought to reassure Victorians that nothing untoward has happened on this or any other big public project and that their privacy is being properly safeguarded.

But surely they have failed. What police and ministers have said has been far from reassuring, because it reveals that no one in authority seems to know - or at least be willing to say - precisely what this deal means or how many similar agreements have been struck.

This affair, characterised by confusion, not clarity, began on August 28 when a police assistant commissioner, the secretary of the Department of Sustainability and Environment, and two directors of the international consortium AquaSure signed a 20-page desalination deal.

It is ''an agreement for the management of protest action'' at the site near Wonthaggi, and states that police ''will release law enforcement data'' to the department secretary and AquaSure. It goes on to say law enforcement data includes images, audio and video, and ''data related to individuals''.

Approached by The Age, a department spokeswoman said such agreements were ''common for large infrastructure projects''. A police spokeswoman also said this was ''a normal process'' for big projects.

The Age revealed the existence of the document last Saturday week. Two days later, police Deputy Commissioner Kieran Walshe said he had not been aware of it, nor of any similar agreements with other companies or on other projects.

Walshe said he was unhappy with the desalination document and wanted it rewritten because it left the impression police would release information that they would not and could not under the state's privacy laws.

He said he was ''not too sure'' that police would provide any data to AquaSure, but in certain circumstances they would need to pass data on to the department about incidents that led to the secretary laying charges.

Water Minister Tim Holding spoke on behalf of the Government on the Monday. He had a very different take.

Holding said a similar deal had been struck on the north-south pipeline project.

Indeed it was ''already a Government policy'' that arrangements were made for police to share data with organisations responsible for big public projects. Such information would include intelligence about proposed protest action and ''footage that might show protesters' tactics - use of scaling ladders or attempts to breach the wall or whatever it might be''.

While Holding seemed to know a lot, Victoria's Privacy Commissioner said she had been unaware of the desalination deal or other such deals on major projects.

On the Tuesday, Police Minister Bob Cameron in Parliament seemed less willing than Holding to embrace this ''Government policy''. Cameron refused to say whether he had approved the desalination deal. Nor would he say how many other such agreements with private companies the Government had implemented.

Premier John Brumby, also on the Tuesday, was less coy. He volunteered that such arrangements were ''not unusual'' and had sometimes been used for anti-logging protests.

By Wednesday, Cameron was willing to confirm to Parliament that there was a deal on the north-south pipeline, but said whether it would be made public was a matter for the police.

Walshe by now was saying he too was aware of other deals, but ''they do not have the data security clause''. And Brumby was saying there was ''no intention whatsoever to provide video images'' to AquaSure or anybody else.

On Thursday came news that Cameron had called in the police files watchdog to investigate the desalination deal. Cameron, like the other authority figures speaking on this matter, had repeatedly stated police would only pass on information in ways that met the requirements of Victoria's privacy laws. But now he was asking the Commissioner for Law Enforcement Data Security to determine whether the desalination document contained ''appropriate compliance, controls and arrangements''.

Also on Thursday, police Chief Commissioner Simon Overland entered the debate. The whole issue was a ''beat-up'', he said. Police always operated within Victoria's privacy laws. Similar deals had been struck ''as a matter of course'' on ''a whole range'' of other projects. Some of them would have the data security clause, others would not. To prove police had nothing to hide, Overland said he was happy to release a list of those projects.

But less than two hours later, his office said that, because of subsequent legal advice ''relating to privacy issues and other sensitivities within the document'', he would not be able to release the list.

The following day Overland said, disingenuously, that it was disingenuous to say he had changed his position. Then he adopted a third position: he would be prepared to release the list, but only if police got a freedom of information request and only after ''those parts that are either privacy-sensitive or we can't release'' were excised.

We'll wait and see.

In the meantime, if you have been reassured by the words of the past two weeks from the Chief Commissioner and his deputy, and the Premier and his ministers, you've probably never protested against a Government-backed project in Victoria.

Paul Austin is state political editor. His column will return in the new year.

So we have an Internet filter being implemented that nobody seems to actually want, no adult rating for games despite everybody wanting one, vastly increased police powers in Victoria - including the power to strip search people at random and with no prior suspicion (within 'designated areas'), and now, the police will hand over personal data on protesters to private corporations... for what purpose?

It couldn't be so that the corporation can sue the protesters? What a backhanded way of preventing protesting... if the police stepped in, there'd be an outcry, but if a private corporation sues some protesters for lost profits, well, surely that's okay?

[|||]

the system is so broken now that they only way to beat it is to become part of it. become a politician, banker, law enforcement agency or special interest group & rake in the dollars.

[Fev]

We need someone to come in and say Stop the bull****. Unfortunantly there is no one with the balls to do it in a position of power. That is the problem.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Fev

We need someone to come in and say Stop the bull****. Unfortunantly there is no one with the balls to do it in a position of power. That is the problem.

and thats why it needs to come from a civilian.

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

and thats why it needs to come from a civilian.

Or all of us... there's a real problem that I feel has arisen in the digital age. People rarely come together in mass protest, rather, they sign online petitions and vent frustration in their Facebook status updates.

I would like to see a mass walk out in NSW in protest to the corruption in the land deals and the fact that one politician with questionable dealings is now premier! A million people walking out of work at once would have a big impact... unfortunately, that '60s spirit seems to be gone.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Or all of us... there's a real problem that I feel has arisen in the digital age. People rarely come together in mass protest, rather, they sign online petitions and vent frustration in their Facebook status updates.

I would like to see a mass walk out in NSW in protest to the corruption in the land deals and the fact that one politician with questionable dealings is now premier! A million people walking out of work at once would have a big impact... unfortunately, that '60s spirit seems to be gone.

won't happen.

because people are afraid.

afraid of media destroying them.
afraid of people laughing at them.
afraid of being locked up.
afraid of giving up a satday night when they can be out getting smashed with mates.

[uranium_death]

Question: Are other countries this bad?

As for privacy...what can you do? ANZ already sells your details...known fact.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Question: Are other countries this bad?

As for privacy...what can you do? ANZ already sells your details...known fact.

there a countries much worse.

the answer to your question is actually a another question

should we judge ourselves on how much right or wrong WE do based on other countries?

ie. we have less road deaths then other countries but we have a smaller population. but PER CAPITA we are much higher then some euro countries.

we still doing the right thing?

[dsyfer]

The corporations would use the protesters details to pressure and intimidate their employers, family, landlords etc.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by dsyfer

The corporations would use the protesters details to pressure and intimidate their employers, family, landlords etc.

corporations and governments don't really care about protesters anymore. throw them(protesters) a bone every now and again and they go away. so the real issue never gets adddressed.


30+ million people around the world protested for no war with iraq.

they went ahead with it anyway.

[gtfpv]

farque me . sorry to say but APETHY has prevailed for so long in this country now . young people actually think everything is ok .
it aint gonna happen . just give away your cake .

[Franco Cozzo]

The government will still bend us over the table because no one stands up for themselves anymore, one person does then they get the example made out of them. no one in this country stands up for themselves, they just let us get pushed around and dont fight back.

Also what the hell is a petition going to do? The CEO or who ever it is incharge of who you are making the petition will be like "Oh look a piece of paper with everyones names on it, I'll carefully file this in the I dont give a crap section".

[gtfpv]

YEP , take employment rights for example, people nowadays argue against them , the media tell us everyday how great everything is , the last recession was a hiccup everyone says , well my super doesnt say so, LPG up 50% in 12 months anyone noticed, groceries electricity rates water and taxes rising blahh blahh blahh . yeah we're still surviving i'm sure i suddenly slipped from top 20% to struggle street and still in top 20% they say.

[Trek]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

farque me . sorry to say but APETHY has prevailed for so long in this country now . young people actually think everything is ok .
it aint gonna happen . just give away your cake .

I'll excuse your ignorance on two accounts.

1. It's spelled apathy
2. I must be an exception to the rule (or statement) here, umbrella labelling like the example above is just another way in which ignorance (the other problem, that goes hand in hand with apathy) prevails.

It all hurts to the point that I try to forget (not that it's really ever forgotten) about it all, thinking about the negativity and oppression that is forced upon us as a nation/society. I too wish I could do something, but the numbers just aren't there, are they? The ratio of people in each region/town/city of those who care versus those who don't is just more depressing and a greater reminder of how difficult it would actually be to attempt to alter the path we're being coerced to take at the moment.

[benoxr]

Its made all the more difficult by the governments of the day when they bring in such things as the ISP Internet Filtering, the ‘cause for inciting a riot’ clause of the anti-terrorist laws (could be corrected on that) and the hardened stance on anything remotely Vigilante. They want everyone to dob-in-a-mate at work and in society in general which stops people from “getting organised” and give us the Neighbourhood Watch just to make vigilante wannabies feel they are doing something yet it is all controlled.
They already know what happens in other parts of the world, and revolutions in history and have taken steps to try and limit the possibility of the same happening in Aust.
Even though the younguns seem as though they dont believe in anything, or would stand for anything, I’m sure they’ll get bitten right where it hurts one day and they’ll react accordingly. In some ways they already do, as today generations Y and Z must be the most rebellious generations ever. Trouble is, they direct their rebellion at the common people, rather than the law makers.
There needs to be knew ways of protesting for joe average, as people are bored with old ways such as writing to your local pollie – these old ways just dont really work effectively, people know it and feel there is no other choice but to sit back and cop it. At least until something happens to them personally then they want the world to help them.
In the end, it wont matter what laws they make and what the media has to say, when people have had enough, no laws are going to stop them.
Right or wrong, thats my 2c worth

[Bluefreak]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Or all of us... there's a real problem that I feel has arisen in the digital age. People rarely come together in mass protest, rather, they sign online petitions and vent frustration in their Facebook status updates.

I would like to see a mass walk out in NSW in protest to the corruption in the land deals and the fact that one politician with questionable dealings is now premier! A million people walking out of work at once would have a big impact... unfortunately, that '60s spirit seems to be gone.

The irony here is that we have never been better informed (digital age) and yet we have never been less motivated to extract a digit and fight for what we believe in...

[SVD]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

and thats why it needs to come from a civilian.

i swear, once im like 30ish.... and been working for a couple of years im going in to politics and cleaning all the up.... i'd do it now but wouldnt stand a hope in hell because of my age.... :

[bluestreak]

There is unlikely to be action in Australia, ever.

This is because of our large middle class. Middle class people are happy for things to stay more or less the way they are and won't protest too much if changes for the worse are made bit by bit. We live in our comfort zone, where we go to work, come home, have dinner, watch telly etc till the week end. Pub discussions almost always avoid anything too controversial especially politics, or anything deep. Too hard.

Look at any place that has had protest action serious enough to force a "regime change" - Fiji, Thailand, almost any African country. All with a small middle class (who are comfortable and have much to lose), and large lower classes (very little to lose, and usually drastically affected by the policy(ies) that they're protesting about.

Let's not forget Australia grew up with a "she'll be right, mate" attitude.

The other one we seem to have forgotten is "fair go, mate".

"Australia is a lucky country, run mainly by second-rate people who share its luck" - Donald Horne, The Lucky Country 1964. Just as true today, if not more so.

Cheers

:

[gtfpv]

all brilliant posts here . good to see. i tend to think it is the ones under 20 today that will fight for a decent living standard when they start to work things out .the peopl;e by and large between 20 and 35 today are more like it's all " she'll be right mate i'll move out of home and get married and build a house one day .when i find a job that lasts more than a year , and when the times right .

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

corporations and governments don't really care about protesters anymore. throw them(protesters) a bone every now and again and they go away. so the real issue never gets adddressed.


30+ million people around the world protested for no war with iraq.

they went ahead with it anyway.

A small minority.

Personal view, I had no problem knocking off Saddam, regardless of WMD argument.

Occupation, in the hope of creating a more stable place is another matter.

Originally Posted by SVD

i swear, once im like 30ish.... and been working for a couple of years im going in to politics and cleaning all the up.... i'd do it now but wouldnt stand a hope in hell because of my age.... :

On FB, add as friends MP's of the party of your choice, or Independent, et al. See how they operate.....

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

A small minority.

extrapolate that number against people surveyed, forums, online etc, you'll see that the number against war was much higher then just the people marching.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Personal view, I had no problem knocking off Saddam, regardless of WMD argument.

Saddam was the west's pet for 20 years. best mates, shaking hands with rumsfeld, being handed chemical weapons willly nilly with the west looking the other way every time he used them. hopefully your personal view extends to knocking off GWB, rumsfeld and wolfowitz as well as they were complicit in his reign.

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Occupation, in the hope of creating a more stable place is another matter.

perhaps this is all best left to another thread......

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by SVD

i swear, once im like 30ish.... and been working for a couple of years im going in to politics and cleaning all the up.... i'd do it now but wouldnt stand a hope in hell because of my age.... :

good luck . i had a friend a few years younger than i who joined the labor party some years ago . this guy was strong veiwed had strong opinions and a strong will to do what he thought would be right by everyone , this guy was well educated and could politically motivate people and had no problem winning an arguement whilst making great points which he could back up with literature, everyone that new this young bloke wished him well as he was a very switched on good bloke with nothing in the closet , and a very charismatic charactor , all that new him wished him well and hoped that he would succeed, he was working in canberra in a real political junior position as well .
he was tossed out by kim beazly deemed not towing the line and doing as he was told, he was replaced by people the labor party through in office by choice , not by democratic election .
good luck .
this fellow had all the right ingredients , but found out the govt does not work that way.

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

There is unlikely to be action in Australia, ever.

This is because of our large middle class. Middle class people are happy for things to stay more or less the way they are and won't protest too much if changes for the worse are made bit by bit. We live in our comfort zone, where we go to work, come home, have dinner, watch telly etc till the week end. Pub discussions almost always avoid anything too controversial especially politics, or anything deep. Too hard.

Look at any place that has had protest action serious enough to force a "regime change" - Fiji, Thailand, almost any African country. All with a small middle class (who are comfortable and have much to lose), and large lower classes (very little to lose, and usually drastically affected by the policy(ies) that they're protesting about.

Let's not forget Australia grew up with a "she'll be right, mate" attitude.

The other one we seem to have forgotten is "fair go, mate".

"Australia is a lucky country, run mainly by second-rate people who share its luck" - Donald Horne, The Lucky Country 1964. Just as true today, if not more so.

Cheers

:

Astute observations

[Green X]

All ready taking place in Industry, It's called ERMS

One click and a employer can find out everything about a potential employee, cut's down in interviews, Get "Black listed" on ERMS and good luck to ya!

[cant]

I cant complain.........

I decided years ago that thinking about it is a waste of time.

You will be taxed to death, and then after it, get used to it.......

There is just too many do-gooders out there.

I shouldnt post because I try to be impartial.


DONT ENCOURAGE THE MONGRELS , DONT VOTE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:togo:
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[balthazarr]

Slightly off-topic maybe?

From: http://www.news.com.au/entertainment...-1225811953116

Crackdown on television smut
Siobhan Duck From: Herald Sun December 12, 2009

TELEVISION networks will be forced to justify nudity, sex scenes and dirty jokes under a crackdown by the Australian TV watchdog next year.

The new rules were sparked by outrage over Big Brother's explicit sexual content and treatment of its contestants during its eight-year run.

Networks could face fines for repeated breaches of the code, which begins on January 1.

The Australian Communication and Media Authority's new code will force networks to:

STOP exploiting and demeaning reality television contestants.

PROVE sex scenes and nudity are relevant to plots if they receive complaints.

EXPLAIN how dirty jokes and references were necessary to the show.

MAKE apologies for errors in current affairs and news reports on air in a timely fashion.

And, in a first, viewers will be able to make their complaints online, allowing for a speedier and easier complaint process.

ACMA began its review of reality television content after numerous complaints about the now defunct Big Brother.

The Channel 10 reality program became notorious for its sexual content and nudity. It was axed last year because of falling ratings and replaced with the popular and family-friendly MasterChef Australia.

ACMA spokesman Donald Robertson said the new code would bring the TV classification system into line with the rules that govern Australian film and video game classification.

Mr Robertson said all nudity breaches would be investigated individually.

"For instance, we investigated complaints about Underbelly this year and in some cases found them to be in breach of the code and others there was no breach," he said.

"Repeated breaches of the code will result in penalties."

Mr Robertson said the investigation process had also been simplified and from March 1 viewers could lodge complaints online rather than by written letter.

Family Council of Victoria spokesman Bill Muehlenberg said an online complaint system was long overdue and the delay showed that the networks did not really take the process seriously.

"We are living in a technological age and they are only now doing this?" he said.

"A lot of people are not going to bother getting an envelope and a stamp and posting a complaint. That's what they count on. They don't want to hear anything negative about what they're doing."

Mr Muehlenberg said more needed to be done to get rid of sex and nudity on TV.

"I give them some credit for doing this but, essentially, if they make a show about sleazy strippers and there's nudity, they can just argue that the nudity is relevant because it's a show about strippers. I would prefer to see no shows like that in the first place," he said.

Focus on the Family spokeswoman Deb Sorensen agreed the new code did not go far enough to clean up television.

"There are still no clear boundaries or clear consequences, particularly when it comes to advertising these shows," she said.

"Shows with gratuitous sex and violence are being advertised earlier and earlier or during shows that kids are watching, like the AFL, which can run until 11pm."

TV channels said it was too early to say what effect the new code would have on programming next year.

7 and 10 were unavailable for comment.

'PROVE sex scenes and nudity are relevant to plots if they receive complaints.

EXPLAIN how dirty jokes and references were necessary to the show.'

:

[thefargo]

stick your head out of the window and shout
"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"

or at least borrow the movie 'network' and watch someone else do it.
old movie from the 70's I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08