Olympic Games under threat of attack

[AusM]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

1. china have adequate technology when combined with their numbers to be a serious threat ( bear in mind china has no problem with mass slaughter) sure their technology is not at the level of US technology but they do have the disposable people (their attitude not mine) to use what they have. as for nuclear technology there are many older delivery systems available to china, sure they are unreliable and easier to intercept but with the sheer weight of numbers they would be able to deliver significant numbers of warheads if it came down to that
2. economic alalysts have been concerned for some time now about the abaility of china to destabilise the western economy especially the US. china trades in unough US currency to be able to cause a major crash of the US dollar with a corresponding crash of the US economy, loss of confidence in the US economy would then result in loss of high tech R&D projects and you can guess from there. it is a matter of china hurting the US far more than the other way round
3. if it were just labour I would agree but china has the manufacturing infrastructure and many of our consumer items including clothing are of chineese origin. inda theoreticall could eventually fill the void but not in the short to medium term as new manufacturing facilities would need to be financed and built, markets established workers trained and confidence established

Sounds like we need to invest more in India! China does have quite some missile capabilty - this site looks like a good reference - interesting to note that they have proven the ability to take down a satellite - something which is at the core of most of the US's targetting systems...

Originally Posted by au3xr6

FFS another oil conspiracy theorist every action in the world is tied to oil is it ??? think of these issues

1. numbers china 1.321 million people USA 301 million Australia 20 million people china can win a war through sheer numbers they have plenty of unwilling cannon fodder
2. economy china are a key player in the world economy and could bankrupt the US if they were cornered
3. Supply China provides many consumer goods and a war would cause major dissruptions to supply of goods world wide causing further financial turmoil

That was more of a joke than anything... but yes, the other factor is that the US is probably scared of China and won't enter into a battle they can't win. They prefer to wage war against camel jockeys.

Do you really believe China can bankrupt US? The 'made in Japan' days weren't that bad...

I agree with pt 3 - it seems 80% of what's around us is Chinese-built these days. It would be nice to believe that we could do without it, but our consumer lifestyle would have to change first I think...

Until then, China can keep shooting 'illegal' protesters - illegal because China made the rule that they cannot protest, and cannot practice or outwardly show their religion or flag. China can control Chinese media, but they don't have control of all the media before the Olympic torch gets to China - I think we can expect more public unrest...

Some other interesting tactics in China's War on Truth:

A conspicuously large number of users established accounts on English speaking Youtube March 17 or later, reports Der Spiegel, and seem interested in nothing other than Chinese propaganda videos.


The English-language Wikipedia entry about Tibet has been changed over a hundred times in the past three days, most with insults against the country, Buddhist monks and the Dalai Lama.


The Chinese authorities use the web to root out their opponents also in other ways. Reports are arriving that FBI is looking into attacks on Save Darfur domains; US State Department states that such attacks by Chinese authorities have been ongoing for years.



Yahoo China has pasted a "most wanted" poster of Tibetans across its homepage, where Chinese authorities provide a phone number for informants. French Observer 24 news source reports that this comes after Yahoo helped the Chinese police in its inquiry over the journalist Shi Tao, who had an email account with Yahoo. Shi got 10 years in jail.

Strangely enough, although China doesn't want to politicise the Olympics, they were one of the first to boycott the 1980 games due to the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan!


Jas.

[fmc351]

You realise Joe Bjelkie banned protests too right?


So much scare tactics in that rot. China can not win a war against the US, not a snowballs chance in hell. And I note they have now developed according to the site you mentioned a missile capable of 13000km and I was unaware they had it developed, last I heard it was still being developed. To reach half of the US, they need to go that far. Its worth noting though, they only have 20 of them (putting aside the notion of using shorter range missiles to launch other short range missiles in mid flight -piggybacking), the US has over 500 ICBM's that can hit anywhere in China from the continental US. Not to mention the US fleet of Ohio class subs, each armed with an arsenal (Trident II's) equal to Chinas entire long range (13000 km) arsenal. The US also have a fleet of more aggressive attack subs.

Yes 20 nukes is bad, but its not the globe splitting result most seem to envisage. Where it all falls over for China, the US could wipe China off the map, and still have ample reserves of hardware to fight off any 10 other enemy nations. For China to take the US, they are then spent with weaponry capable of that distance and the US will finish them off from the water (subs), even if the mainland US no longer existed. Not to mention the Russians and Chinese haven been as friendly as we think since the Ruskis pulled out of completely developing nuke tech for the Chinese. The Russians did start it, but changed their minds before China had finished it, the Chinese had to source it on their own. Anyone who thinks China can take the US has absolutely no concept of strategy, nor reality. China has to survive after any such attack, not simply hit and run.

The vast numbers of 'expendable' soldiers are only as good as the number they can deploy to any given location. The biggest problem in the modern world with large numbers is logistics. Its not the days of Alexander the Great, the HUGE numbers mean squat. On Chinese soil, yes, the numbers will be important, to an extent but US weaponry will decimate them if they gather. Anywhere else, the Chinese dont have the fleet capacity to ship soldiers in the numbers we're talking about anyway. And theres no point in the ships making many trips and trying to accumulate soldiers until the force builds, the nation they are invading wont just wait for that. The US is a bully but its a bully like Mike Tyson, not some mouthy ponce down the pub bragging about his 50 mates and their Wing Chung.

People cite Korea and Vietnam as examples of China taking on the US and not losing. Well they didnt win either, and in both cases, those countries border China. The US also pulled punches in both nations, it could have done a lot more if it so desired. Away from home, the Chinese are not a threat at all. Mutual destruction ensures that, the economy of China is the best weapon the US has, those in power in Chin, those with influence, they like the high life and are well aware the outcome of any such action.

Do we even need to consider the PR skills of each nation? The US could drop the big one, and get away with it. China on the other hand is mistrusted. We dont necessarily trust the US, but well theyre yanks and weve grown accustomed to their antics, chastise them and forget it is about all they would face.


On the trillion $US China holds. Umm, that forms part of the Chinese economy too, they cant afford to play games with it either. One trillion dollars is one months US GDP, the Chinese dont have a trillion $ a month economy, yet. The dollars sound big, but when you get down to it, for the US its not that big although they wouldnt want it played with either.

If the US economy fails, the Chinese economy will also fall on hard times, the yanks are the biggest consumers of Chinese goods.


OH MY GOD, THE SKY IS FALLING.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

1. china have adequate technology when combined with their numbers to be a serious threat ( bear in mind china has no problem with mass slaughter) sure their technology is not at the level of US technology but they do have the disposable people (their attitude not mine) to use what they have. as for nuclear technology there are many older delivery systems available to china, sure they are unreliable and easier to intercept but with the sheer weight of numbers they would be able to deliver significant numbers of warheads if it came down to that

Sheer weight of numbers?

USA - Active Warheads - 4,075. Stockpile - 5,535.
Russia - Active Warheads (estimate) - 5,830. Stockpile (estimate) - 16,000+
China - Total Warheads, Active & Inactive - 200.

Yeah I mean, their massive numbers would really scare the crap out of everyone you know... of the five Permanent Security Council members, their nuclear force is the puniest.

They have some pretty decent and modern planes... like the Sukhoi Su-30 (widely regarded as second only to the F22), they've got 100 of those. They've also got 76 Sukhoi Su-27's... but then you look at their most plentiful fighter aircraft... Chengdu J-7 Airguard, a Chinese copy of the MiG 21. Nice and ancient. Their next most plentiful fighter is the Nanchang Q-5, a Chinese copy of the MiG 19... an even older plane! Oh, their airforce is also smaller then Russia's and America's, and quite the bit less advanced then both. They've about 1,200-1,500 planes down on them.

Then there's their ICBM's...

China's scariest one, the Dong Feng 31 CSS9, has an 11,200km range and is capable of carrying 3 warheads with a total max payload of 450 kilotons.

Then you've got the Russian R36M2, the world's deadliest ICBM, with 15,200km of range and capability of carrying either 10 Warheads of up to 750kT each (7500 total, or 7.5 megatons)... or a single 20 megaton warhead - which is a higher payload then the most powerful experimental nuclear warhead ever detonated by the USA, Castle Bravo, at 15 megaton.

The most powerful US ICBM can yeild up to 3.3 megatons.

China has 4,100 main battle tanks. America has 8,000. Russia has 18,077. Again China lags far behind... and unlike the Russians and Americans, it doesn't have the logistical capability to really get them very far.

All they have is alot of soldiers, and lots of old stuff. Except, they can't use all their soldiers because they can't get them where they need to go. Most of their planes would get shot down by much newer, more sophisticated equipment being used by most of Europe, Russia and the USA. Except their Su-30's and Su-27's, but their total fleet of those isn't very big compared to the UK, Russia, USA etc etc.

China's military power is often exaggerated quite a bit. Put simply, one on one against either Russia or the USA, China would lose... full stop.

[Rodp]

Yeah, but Chinese women are very cute. ;)

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Yeah, but Chinese women are very cute. ;)

You say that until she's holding Machine Gun to your head wearing camo's.

:gren:

[Bossxr8]

There's no way China would want to get in a war with the US, the yanks could flatten the whole of China with probably 10% of all their nukes.