Falcon sales drop to 1300 for January

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by VSSII

What worries me most is the fact that the Orion isn't even an all new car.

Should it matter? Nobody seemed to care when Holden kept releasing cars with a 30 year old boat anchor engine(3.8 v6) and IRS designed back in the early 90s up until VZ.

The only problem with BF is it looks dated and needs a bit of a freshen up.

[vanman_75]

they are doing something different and not dropping the a r s e out off them to look after those that are buying them.keeps the resale up good on em

[Daymoe]

From my parents point of view they can't justify a larger cars like Falcons and Commodores with the ever increasing price of Petrol. Everyone seems to be against large cars these days, well the older people are.

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

That 30 yr old V6 and way out dated V8... well that Gen 111 Oil Burning V8 will most proberbly be in my next car, I will never buy another Falcon/Fairmont again, in fact proberbly nothing with a Blue Oval on it. Ill hold onto my XE for the time being but never will i have a late model Falcon. Im so dissapointed with the BA, with the customer service i recieved from ford, my dealer and anybody else thats had anything to do with the car... if others have had luck like me, im not supprised that only 1300 falcons were sold in January.

I have a few mates with Commodores and am yet to hear a bad story from any of them with customer service...

Welcome to the dark side

Cheers Dan

[CADSKY]

Originally Posted by sleekism

whenever I see an XR6 and XR8 I take to staring at it as it drives past so the driver feels like a million bucks and will hopefully buy a Falcon again.

whenever i see an xr6 and xr8 i take to staring at it cos i still think it looks HOTTT!!!!

seriously not everyone out there thinks that it is a totally out dated car, especially those that drive around in E-Series (like myself) and AU models.

the fact is that fords resale value is very low. who is going to go out and buy a BF XR8 for $45000 odd when you can buy a BA MK11 XR8 for $25000 odd. i know this because i have been looking into a newer XR8

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by VSSII

What worries me most is the fact that the Orion isn't even an all new car.

I don’t mean to pick on you but this sort of statement gets me on the rev limiter.

The comment is nearly reserved for technical aspects of a platform something 99.9% of consumers don’t have a clue about or really care about. They care about what they can see, touch, smell, feel and new doesn't always mean better. In fact if you were to strip the VE back to its chassis and the Orion back to its chassis you will most likely find the Ford has the superior underpinnings when subjected to the tests that determine rigidity.

The VE is at a very early stage of its life and will be improved with each iteration. The next series won’t be any worse because it’s not all brand new??? It’s an insane position to take.

Orion will be all new in the areas that matter and that is all people should be concerned about. The humble wheel hasn't had much in the way of evolution and it’s a long way for all new.

[VSSII]

Originally Posted by Torxteer

Should it matter? Nobody seemed to care when Holden kept releasing cars with a 30 year old boat anchor engine(3.8 v6) and IRS designed back in the early 90s up until VZ.

The only problem with BF is it looks dated and needs a bit of a freshen up.

Well yes it does matter. In the last few years things have changed dramatically on an international level. You don't slip to 17th from 3rd or so if the only problem is a 'freshen up'.

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by VSSII

Well yes it does matter. In the last few years things have changed dramatically on an international level. You don't slip to 17th from 3rd or so if the only problem is a 'freshen up'.

You seem to be missing the point,it is WAY overdue for the freshen up,hence the slow sales.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

It only reflects the markets perception of the aging BF model- try explaining to someone off the street the difference between the BA that was released in 2002 and the BF2 that was released in '06 and they'd look at you funny.

Well that is what happens when you give your main oppostion a two year head start with an all new model. :

Perception is more important then reality so people who don't understand cars will think newer is always better. The BF MkII gives the VE a good run for its money. It just doesn't get the credit or recognition it deserves.

FF

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by VSSII

It would be a good start to stop making excuses. Problems need to be addressed. Every other manufacturer at some time is faced with an old model runout. How top many 5'ers slip to 17th? How many top 5'ers rely heavily on fleet sales? Who cares if the plant was only open 10 days in Dec? They are in the business of selling cars. I would bet London to a brick that if they thought they could sell the cars they would have been building them in Dec. They're not running a corner store here.

What worries me most is the fact that the Orion isn't even an all new car.

Actually the break over Christmas is where a lot of maintenance, upgrades and other things that may make the line more efficient take place. Then when the plant is up and running the first few days there is some teething problems and its also short on workers. Thats why they have the long break the production line is mechanical and will break down if not properly maintained.

[Brute6]

Originally Posted by VSSII

Well yes it does matter. In the last few years things have changed dramatically on an international level. You don't slip to 17th from 3rd or so if the only problem is a 'freshen up'.

FFS its more than a friggin Freshen up :togo:
Open your eyes and take a closer look when Orion is released. I've seen one, been in one, and driven one; its far superior to a freshen up...... Go back and lock yourself in your little Commonwhore world.....

[galaxy xr8]

Well we will just have to wait and see how the Orion perform's, I understand that it will be a new vehicle but to me the interesting observation will be just how Ford Aust market the new Falcon, because this is an area where I believe they lack, ever since the AU day's Ford seem to be slowly going down hill along with their sale's, we all can make up excusses but at the end off the day, there need's to be some fresh, new young talent in this area at Ford Aust, someone that will take it upfront and grab the bull by the horn's so to speak, actually it wouldn't hurt to have a freshen up in the whole entire Ford Aust, head quarter's, if you know what I mean.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Well we will just have to wait and see how the Orion perform's, I understand that it will be a new vehicle but to me the interesting observation will be just how Ford Aust market the new Falcon, because this is an area where I believe they lack, ever since the AU day's Ford seem to be slowly going down hill along with their sale's, we all can make up excusses but at the end off the day, there need's to be some fresh, new young talent in this area at Ford Aust, someone that will take it upfront and grab the bull by the horn's so to speak, actually it wouldn't hurt to have a freshen up in the whole entire Ford Aust, head quarter's, if you know what I mean.

Valid points, but lets face it. The car could be brilliant, but the dealers will screw it up as they always do. The dealers will be the death of Falcon unless Ford wakes up to the fact that the public have had a gut full of the dealer network and starts tearing up franshise agreements on mass and gets serious about customer focussed dealers. Fair dinkum a couple of billion in legal fees to get out of the current Ford dealer cartel, would be a good investment in Fords future in this country. Ford cannot afford what the dealer network does to their reputation and goodwill.

Otherwise Orion, will be another chapter near the end of the book that was Ford production in Australia. The dealers will moan every Christmas about how Ford Australia screwed up their business and go on to sell Kia or something.

Dan

[RATT]

JAN 08 - JAN 07

Fiesta 731 - 674
Focus 1823 - 1665
Mondeo 369 - 0
Falcon 1252 - 1974
Falcon ute 664 - 834
Territory 1099 - 1343
Ranger
4x2 734 - 162
4x4 578 - 220

[irlewy86]

Ranger and small cars are getting stronger. I reckon about June Falcon sales should sky rocket again

[T3ts50]

Doesnt Ford Usually have a 3 week break from Christmas to mid Jan?

What were the commodores sales results?

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Brute6

FFS its more than a friggin Freshen up :togo:
Open your eyes and take a closer look when Orion is released. I've seen one, been in one, and driven one; its far superior to a freshen up...... Go back and lock yourself in your little Commonwhore world.....

So what did it go like? Did it feel like you were driving a ba/bf or something better? What did you think of the interior?and exterior?

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Brute6

FFS its more than a friggin Freshen up :togo:
Open your eyes and take a closer look when Orion is released. I've seen one, been in one, and driven one; its far superior to a freshen up...... Go back and lock yourself in your little Commonwhore world.....

Damn right! I know a few falcon fans who still believe this! It may be true that in some way an orion is based on a platform that started life with the AU falcon. But two points should be made there....the AU platform, for all the flack the car got, was damn good (much stronger than a commie of the day, and much stronger than my old EF for sure!). Secondly, it has changed a hell of a lot since then, and with new front suspension there won't be much left from the AU days anyway.

All cars are really developments of the one before them. You only throw away a platform all together if it not suited to the role of the car anymore (say you want to put AWD in or something, or go to a global architecture etc.) and/or it is woefully out of date (e.g. VZ commodore). Hell the VE was supposed to have the VZ brake system at one stage (rotors and all) so i heard (imagine that peformance with the VE's weight) but Holden's engineers saved money in other places so they could do some upgrades. This wouldn't have made the VE just a 'freshened up' VZ!

In fact this continual tweaking and improvements in different areas has over time made Falcon what it is today. Oh...so how good is this new Orion Brute6! Please tell us more!

[RATT]

Holden
JAN 08 - JAN 07

Barina 915 - 1563
Astra 1380 - 2239
Viva 789 - 815
Epica 324 - 0
Commodore 3210 - 3474
Ute 932 - 696
Rodeo
4x2 536 - 834
4x4 704 - 425
Statesman 122 - 123
Caprice 159 - 157

Toyota
JAN 08 - JAN 07

Yaris 2433 - 2498
Corolla 3843 - 3485
Camry 1385 - 1343
Aurion 1266 - 1125
Kluger 874 - 389
Prado 1199 - 1225
Hilux
4x2 1352 - 1308
4x4 1668 - 1473

[FordFella]

How is Ford shifting all of those Fiestas? I thought the issue was supply, and the Fiestas were constrained to the left overs of Europe. Focus sales are very good, we may see the year Ford sells more Focii than Holden sells Astras! All of Holdens small cars are floundering with losses compared to last year.
Falcon sales aren't much of a concern, as whatever fleets don't buy now they'll buy when the runout starts.

[BionicGT]

Ford and Holden rely on fleet sales for the majority of the Falcon & Commodore sales. However this puts cheap vehicles back into the second hand car market and hurts resale value which hurts future sales. Bit of a catch 22 for them. When the new Commodore came out, Holden reduced the fleet discounts in order to try and prop up resale values but it hurt fleet sales volumes.

ANCAP crash ratings are also impacting on large vehicle sales as the smaller vehicles are now getting equal, and often better, ratings than a Falcon or Commodore. This takes away the perceived advantage of a large vehicle. (Ford is hoping to get 5 star rating for Orion though)

Fleet buyers are also hanging off ordering until Orion features and fleet pricing is released to them. Depending on how good Orion is, on both fronts, Falcon sales volumes may pick up substantially. Increasing petrol pricing will still remain a killer for large vehicles though.

Interestingly, the three top selling vehicles in 2007 were:

1. Holden Commodore - 57,307 sales.
2. Toyota Corolla - 47,792 sales
3. Toyota HiLux - 42,009

Who would have thought the HiLux would be such a good seller. I guess the Chevy SUV looks and pricing from $18,000 + On road costs really appeals.

[VSSII]

Originally Posted by Brute6

FFS its more than a friggin Freshen up :togo:
Open your eyes and take a closer look when Orion is released. I've seen one, been in one, and driven one; its far superior to a freshen up...... Go back and lock yourself in your little Commonwhore world.....

Good work keyboard warrior. Go back and read again. Someone else mentioned that phrase. I said considerably more than a freshen up was needed and if thats what they've done then tip top. As I would not like to see them go the way of Mitsubishi in the next 10 years.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by RATT

Holden
JAN 08 - JAN 07

Barina 915 - 1563
Astra 1380 - 2239
Viva 789 - 815
Epica 324 - 0
Commodore 3210 - 3474
Ute 932 - 696
Rodeo
4x2 536 - 834
4x4 704 - 425
Statesman 122 - 123
Caprice 159 - 157
Captiva 1038 - 577

Did anybody notice that 30% of Holdens sold last month were made by Daewoo?

FF

[XR6_190]

I think Ford Aus' future (for at least the next 10 years, probably more) is actually looking pretty good at the moment. With the local manufacture of Focus to begin soon, and the Development of both the new Light Commercials and New Rear drive platform I would say that both Ford Aus and Falcon have a decent future at the moment.

[AGXR8]

Agree XR6 190. That puts Ford Aust heavily involved in the 3 biggest segments - eg manufacture of small cars, manufacture & design of rwd and design of light commercials.
Also, volumes of Falcon platform aren't bad when Territory taken into account - over 50,000 for 2007....even though Falcon is currently old
Heaps of money just spent on R&D facilities and havily involved in global programmes
Finally, I think the new President Bill Osbourne will be pretty good and a breath of fresh air
Sounds like a great basis to launch the Orion!

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by BionicGT

Ford and Holden rely on fleet sales for the majority of the Falcon & Commodore sales. However this puts cheap vehicles back into the second hand car market and hurts resale value which hurts future sales. Bit of a catch 22 for them. When the new Commodore came out, Holden reduced the fleet discounts in order to try and prop up resale values but it hurt fleet sales volumes.

ANCAP crash ratings are also impacting on large vehicle sales as the smaller vehicles are now getting equal, and often better, ratings than a Falcon or Commodore. This takes away the perceived advantage of a large vehicle. (Ford is hoping to get 5 star rating for Orion though)

Fleet buyers are also hanging off ordering until Orion features and fleet pricing is released to them. Depending on how good Orion is, on both fronts, Falcon sales volumes may pick up substantially. Increasing petrol pricing will still remain a killer for large vehicles though.

Interestingly, the three top selling vehicles in 2007 were:

1. Holden Commodore - 57,307 sales.
2. Toyota Corolla - 47,792 sales
3. Toyota HiLux - 42,009

Who would have thought the HiLux would be such a good seller. I guess the Chevy SUV looks and pricing from $18,000 + On road costs really appeals.

Simple reason why Hilux is a big seller:

Hiluxes are built in Thailand and we have a free trade agreement with Thailand.

So we have a ute cheaply built in Thailand with a reputation that it is hand built in Japan.

[autolover08]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Simple reason why Hilux is a big seller:

Hiluxes are built in Thailand and we have a free trade agreement with Thailand.

So we have a ute cheaply built in Thailand with a reputation that it is hand built in Japan.

Agreed.
Hopefully Ford will be importing the next all new fiesta from Thailand which should reap the same benefits as the hilux.

[MONSOON]

So people are paying up to $53000+on roads & accessories for a hilux that is made with cheap labour, is alot more expensive than all its direct competitors which are also made in thailand, But it seems alot of people find that to be acceptable

I hope the new Falcon kicks the competition in the market, it needs to be slightly superior to the VE in most ways(except V8 performance, cause we know that won't happen this time around) just to be competitive, cause we know in alot of ways holden really picked its game up with the VE, I hope it hasn't stacked on 200kg's

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by jlgerber

So people are paying up to $53000+on roads & accessories for a hilux that is made with cheap labour, is alot more expensive than all its direct competitors which are also made in thailand, But it seems alot of people find that to be acceptable

So the F6X will be 70k+ onroads for a Territory that is made by overpaid labour that would be no better than the quality offered from Thailand or Korea. But it seems a lot of people find that acceptable.

So the GT is 65k+ onroads for a v8 falcon that is made by overpaid labour that would be no better than the quality offered from Thailand or Korea. But it seems a lot of people find that acceptable.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

So the F6X will be 70k+ onroads for a Territory that is made by overpaid labour that would be no better than the quality offered from Thailand or Korea. But it seems a lot of people find that acceptable.

So the GT is 65k+ onroads for a v8 falcon that is made by overpaid labour that would be no better than the quality offered from Thailand or Korea. But it seems a lot of people find that acceptable.

Overpaid labour that will put more money into the economy then Thailand will.
Either way the majority of the cost of the car comes from the R&D then the labour of actually building it.