AU1 Fairmont overheating badly before AND after radiator replaced!

XRchic · 17-03-2007, 03:28 PM

Hi guys

Again I am asking about my Dad's poor old AU1 Fairy-mont.

It has had this problem for about a year now, and he thought he had fixed it but it appears not to be the case.

On very hot days (say over 35 degrees), the car overheats to the point that the temp needle is on the red on the guage. It slowly climbs up, and it is much worse sitting in peak hour traffic or under load (going up Old Belair Rd coming home from work). But this is only on very hot days, normal days, it is fine.

Once it gets this hot, the auto starts playing up, shuddering etc and apparently this is normal when they get hot. They lock up. Once he gets to the top of the hill and cruises back down again to where he lives, the whole thing cools down to normal within about 60 sec... you can see the needle falling and the trans returns to normal.

He recently had a brand new radiator put in at a specialist place, who said something about metal shavings clogging things up and apparently there were a lot of shavings in the radiator. He also said that the Ford radiator was rubbish and it was cracked and broken... so they put a better one in.

Anyway, a week or so after, it has been doing the same thing again, exactly. Overheating on hot days, trans playing up and then cooling down really quickly. Turning the a/c off helps a little.

At no time has there been any coolant loss either, before or after the fix.

Nothing else seems evident.

Does anyone have any ideas???

Thanks

Jac

b2tf · 17-03-2007, 03:42 PM

did they look at the thermostat jac?

Casper · 17-03-2007, 03:45 PM

Metal shavings?

Hellooooooooo water pump... or whats left of it.

**GasoLane** · 17-03-2007, 04:04 PM

The radiator place should have checked what the two above said, he might like to invest in a trans cooler. Cheap insurance

XRchic · 17-03-2007, 04:13 PM

OK I just rang Dad. Eamon had apparently replaced the thermostat about 6 months ago, and the radiator place replaced it again when they did the radiator, just in case. No effect.

And sorry Casper, it wasnt metal shavings, it was sand from the molding process. Apparently it is common for sand to build up in the water jackets that is left there from the molding of the block. Apparently it moves to the radiator. Dad knew someone else with an AU with this problem and apparently they had arguments with Ford about it for ages.

Dad is wondering that, in flushing it all out when the radiator was replaced, whether that may have stirred up more of it and it has blocked up again... ie, needing to go back where it was fixed, again.

Oh and no trans cooler. Good idea though!

Even better idea - get a new car...

**GasoLane** · 17-03-2007, 04:25 PM

When he gets a new one make sure thats it's dual fuel... but DONT tell Casper!

Casper · 17-03-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

When he gets a new one make sure thats it's dual fuel... but DONT tell Casper!

Why? Duel fuel is really useful.........

If you are towing a BBQ Trailer! :evil_laug

XRchic · 17-03-2007, 04:31 PM

Haha no Im sorry to disappoint you all but his choices at present are down to Typhoon or GT with V8 Fairmont Ghia or XR8 with Luxo Pack as outside options. And they wont be LPG... LOL.

**GasoLane** · 17-03-2007, 04:42 PM

Tell him that the gas tank will give him more traction as it sits right over the drive wheels!!

Casper · 17-03-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Tell him that the gas tank will give him more traction as it sits right over the drive wheels!!

Bonus! Extra weight, less power! Traction issues would most certainly be solved

:

peterban · 17-03-2007, 04:57 PM

Check electrical connections to fans.
If the fans aren't working you will get the symptons you describe.

As for LPG it makes it so that I can afford to actually go for a drive in my V8!!!!
The rumble in the exhaust is the same whether running on gas or petrol.

TURBOBF · 17-03-2007, 04:58 PM

I would be replacing thermostat and water pump as others have said below.

Racecraft · 17-03-2007, 05:08 PM

replace the three relays in the main (under the bonnet) fuse box.. two grey and one green.. one of them, and for insurance replace the three, will activate and control both fans.. the seccond fan by the sounds of it is not coming on when it should..

if you flip the lid up on the cover it will tell you which ones are the fans.. labeled
"RLY FAN 1, FAN -2 etc"

XRchic · 17-03-2007, 05:24 PM

Thanks Tibbo, I will have him do that!

I know that at least some fans are working but who knows how well, and which ones? They are VERY loud too!

XRchic · 17-03-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOBF

I would be replacing thermostat and water pump as others have said below.

Has been done. Thermostat twice.

congo3sr · 17-03-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRchic

Has been done. Thermostat twice.

MATE OF MINE HAD EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM,only on his 5.7 corvette,he replaced everything (radiator,thermo,water pump,hoses) then he talked to an old bloke about his problem,one new radiator cap later,no more problems.
just a thought :voldar02:

au2sw · 17-03-2007, 11:02 PM

one would think that a new radiator would come with correct pressured cap. has the water pump been checked/replaced, you said the thermostat has been replaced twice, but no mention of pump. when the radiator was replaced, was a complete cooling system flush completed as well, if so what was found there?

XRchic · 18-03-2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au2sw

one would think that a new radiator would come with correct pressured cap. has the water pump been checked/replaced, you said the thermostat has been replaced twice, but no mention of pump. when the radiator was replaced, was a complete cooling system flush completed as well, if so what was found there?

Yes, a full flush done which is when they found the casting sand, and Dad thinks that the flush may have unsettled more of it, which has blocked everything up again.

As for the water pump, there is no noise coming from it and it has been checked. Something to consider I guess but unlikely.

Au2falcons · 18-03-2007, 08:33 AM

I know a guy with an EL who had a problem with the temp rising sharply, he did the whole radiator, thermostat, cap replacement. Turns out the impeller on the water pump had disintergated. So the coolant wasn't flowing around the system.

Check the fans first, start the car from cold and let it idle till the gauge reaches the 'N' or 'O' mark, you should hear a fan kick in around that time.

Find out if the Radiator Cap which is on the overflow reservoir has been changed, if not it's worth replacing it. May be an issue with not having the correct pressure.

The thermostat though it has been replaced could have seized....just a posibility.

Now you say it only happens on 35deg + days, which i don't think would be a water pump failure because it would be overheating all the time. You can check if there is any flow (someone correct me if i'm wrong) pop the bonnet and have someone slowly increase the revs from idle. Now watch two 8mm hoses that go into the overflow reservior, you should get an even squirt of coolant comming from the hose closest to the engine when above idle. I assume if there was no circulation you wouldn't see any coolant coming out.

I honestly don't think there would be that much casting sand in it to cause it to block up a second time.

Best of luck.

Adrian.

Perana · 18-03-2007, 01:46 PM

Casting sand in the block blocking the radiator has been a big problem since the EA.

I'd be checking the new rad isn't blocked again also the radiator cap is pressurising the system correctly, then that the fans are working properly, thermostat is working properly (these cause so many problems even when new especially after market ones. I wouldn't get anything other than a genuine one), and that the water pump is good still (they don't always have to make noises or leak to cause problems).

Chippar · 19-03-2007, 11:03 AM

Have you looked at the heater core operation? I found this in the service manual this morning pertaining to "Engine Overheating"

As the engine starts to warm up, feel the inlet and outlet heater hoses. They should feel the same after 3 or 4 minutes. If not then service the heater core.

I guess that, as your motor runs at normal temp most times, you could also do this test when it it actually overheating to see if there is any noticible difference between both hoses. If one is bloody hot and the other is just normally hot, then maybe there lies the problem

Also an easy check to see if the thermostat is operating properly, is to allow the engine to run for 10 minutes and then feel the top and bottom radiator hoses. If they are relatively cold then the thermostat is faulty.

I have a 2001 AUII and I remember there was a quiet warranty recall (owner not told but modification done at the next service) to modify the thermostat. I'm not sure what the mod was but they spot painted the top of the thermostat cover red when it had been done.

Best of luck.

XRchic · 19-03-2007, 11:37 AM

Thanks guys! At this point Dad has bought and installed the relays so he will wait and see what happens with that, and he will also do the checks as above - he asked me to pass on that he is very grateful for all of your advice guys! Thanks!

Jac

**Mechan1k** · 19-03-2007, 04:37 PM

I have been going through this issue of late ... I have replaced the everything as well.
I even replaced my thermo fans as one of them was barely moving at all (could stop it with your hand).

It was still overheating under load though with the A/C on as well.

So I have had a relay mod done (When A/C is turned on ... all thermos come on high speed) .... so far ... no overheating issues now.

I know it's a band aid solution ... but so far it's the only thing that has fixed my problems.

I have had my cooling system flushed several times as well ... new header tank .... new hoses ... new radiator ... new water pump ... several new thermostats (even gutted an old one to test as well) ... new cylinder head temp sensors ... you name it.

My A/C works perfectly ... and I have had my heater core tested as well and that was fine as well.

I was stumped at what was causing it ... I even relocated my auto trans cooler as well to see if this was the cause (as I am running a larger aux cooler).

It has had me stumped throughout this Summer ... it only does it under load and warm days ... moreso with A/C.

I really havn't been able to test it as the temps haven't been that high lately ... but hopefully I can test it comprehensively soon.

I think I'll flush the system once again to see if it helps.

The saga is kinda ongoing ... but I hope I have fixed it for now.

**Mechan1k** · 19-03-2007, 04:42 PM

Oh ... I have extensively tested this on a dyno and deliberately gotten it warm as well ... and tested with an infra red thermometer too ... the only thing that got warm was the back of the head under load .... backed off and it cooled back to normal.

Oh .... also forgot that I was trying to replace the head gasket as well ... thinking this was the cause .... found my old head was literally seized to the block .... so I threw the engine out and put in a 66,000km old engine in (with new head gasket ... also checked to make sure all water galleries weren't blocked either).

So I have checked that too

Chippar · 20-03-2007, 10:55 AM

Mate, there's not much left to check is there? I had a look at the good book and the only other thing that it says could be the problem is a faulty "PCM" (Powertrain Control Module). I have no idea how to test this but I'm sure that some of the members, or yourself, will have the necessary know-how to do so.

**Mechan1k** · 20-03-2007, 11:02 AM

I was sent to the radiator place that my mechanic uses anyway ... he spent time testing it as well ... and all he could come up with is a voltage change (spike/drop) under engine load ... causing the signal from the Cylinder Head Temp sensor back to the PCM ... causing a faulty reading back to the cluster.

Was looking at running a T-piece in the back of the head and running a seperate water temp gauge and keep the CHT sensor in place (as the ECU needs it to run anyway) .... but getting a T-piece back there looks like it's going to be difficult ... and may not fit either.

I know I have been having other issues with fuel level on the gauge ... but that's a known issue with the female connectors from the LPG senders ... then again ... it maybe another sign that the PCM could be playing funny buggers as well.

TwistedEL · 20-03-2007, 08:37 PM

I doubt the ECU would cause the car to overheat unless it wasn't turning the thermo's on, if you can confirm both the thermos run fast when the temp needle starts to rise and the A/C is on then the thermos are fine

**Mechan1k** · 24-03-2007, 08:35 PM

I don't think the ECU is causing the ute to overheat ... I think it is misreading the information it is being given ... or the information it is being given from the sensor is causing the gauge to read incorrect ... and when it seems to ... it sends the auto in limp home mode when it is reading too warm.

My thermos are running full speed when it is getting too warm ... and is on high speed when the A/C is on as well ... I have had this tested to make sure (even after getting a new set of thermo fans put in as the old ones were dying.

I have been out testing again today in the heat with a bit of load ... sometimes it goes up ... other times it sits at normal (when i expect the temps to rise) ... I am now looking at the cluster playing up ... as my fuel gauge is all over the place now (even after testing the LPG senders and making sure all loom connections to the senders are clean and getting good contact as well).

I'll eventually get to the bottom of it ... it's just a case of trial and error now and start replacing more and more bits to see if it solves the issue.

InfernoSR · 07-04-2007, 01:22 AM

AU's are very temperamental with their cooling..... Once is starts its hard to stop, and mostly its due to the lack of air coming through the front.

A technical bulleting was sent to us showing how to gain more air... simply make a tool to flatten the top pressings of the air condensor core to allow more air, plus keeping it rather clean. Also some of the replacement radiators out there arent simply built for the country climates and need to be more efficient.

**Mechan1k** · 07-04-2007, 01:31 AM

So really ... I need to look into a better radiator ... I have checked the fins on the A/C condensor and it is clean and free from blockage.

I think the radiator i did get isn't as good as it is meant to be ... it's a replacement meant for the auto AU ... but I am not 100% sure on the construction of it and if it is up to scratch.

Is it worth my while going for a multi core thicker radiator then and seeing how that goes ... and bypassing the trans fluid to a separate auxilliary trans cooler and not using the radiator at all.