Water Detected in Fuel...worry?

[manchu]

My 2012 TDCI Mondeo told me it detected water in the fuel this morning. Warning message disappeared after restarting.

Last fill was 10 days ago, 70L. I'm about 1/2 way through the tank.

This is my first diesel, and I've only done ~1000km so not sure it's anything to be concerned about.

Owners manual just says " Have the system checked by a properly trained technician as soon as possible"


any advice would be appreciated.

cheers

[Trump]

Keep the receipt to begin with. If you have an issue, it is your only recourse to repairs.

What mileage does it have?

[Pepscobra]

In the old days, you'd poor a bit of metho in the tank to help absorb any moisture... Can you do this with diesel too?

Was it a cold morning? Parked outside?
Maybe detected some condensation in the tank?

[manchu]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

In the old days, you'd poor a bit of metho in the tank to help absorb any moisture... Can you do this with diesel too?

Was it a cold morning? Parked outside?
Maybe detected some condensation in the tank?

Melbourne at about 7:45am. 10-15 degC so not really cold, but a bit of condensation around. Yes, parked outside.

I was thinking condensation, but not sure that's even possible?

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Keep the receipt to begin with. If you have an issue, it is your only recourse to repairs.

Attendant at servo (7/11 selling Mobil fuel) gave me copy of receipt (I only had visa transaction history) and also head office number to call. He said there'd been no other reports, and that the tanks were all replaced last year.

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

What mileage does it have?

73,000km.

The car is currently in stat warranty period, but not sure what I can expect from the dealer in this case. They dealer put previous tank of fuel in, but considering I put 70L in afterwards I'd assume it's unlikely contamination came from their fill.

either way I think I should be taking it back to the dealer if I need it checked out.

[rondeo]

The filter has a drain screw at the bottom to drain water from. Just a turn or so with a spanner. Draining into a glass container should show any water. It's meant to be part of the 15000km regular service. Maybe just never done. Filter should have been changed at 60000km though.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by manchu

Melbourne at about 7:45am. 10-15 degC so not really cold, but a bit of condensation around. Yes, parked outside.

I was thinking condensation, but not sure that's even possible?




Attendant at servo (7/11 selling Mobil fuel) gave me copy of receipt (I only had visa transaction history) and also head office number to call. He said there'd been no other reports, and that the tanks were all replaced last year.



73,000km.

The car is currently in stat warranty period, but not sure what I can expect from the dealer in this case. They dealer put previous tank of fuel in, but considering I put 70L in afterwards I'd assume it's unlikely contamination came from their fill.

either way I think I should be taking it back to the dealer if I need it checked out.

The warranty won't cover dodgy fuel, its why I suggested you keep the receipt as all costs for any potential repairs are picked up by the servo/fuel company.

Originally Posted by rondeo

The filter has a drain screw at the bottom to drain water from. Just a turn or so with a spanner. Draining into a glass container should show any water.
From memory I think it's meant to be part of a regular service. Maybe just never done. Filter should have been changed at 60000km though.

Do this as well.

[manchu]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

The warranty won't cover dodgy fuel, its why I suggested you keep the receipt as all costs for any potential repairs are picked up by the servo/fuel company.

I don't expect it to if it's contamination from my one fill up, but if it's something else I'm thinking it's better for the dealer to know about it and check it out.

Originally Posted by rondeo

The filter has a drain screw at the bottom to drain water from. Just a turn or so with a spanner. Draining into a glass container should show any water. It's meant to be part of the 15000km regular service. Maybe just never done. Filter should have been changed at 60000km though.

Cheers. It's certainly possible the filter has never been drained or changed at 60kkm. If that was the case is it possible there's been any damage done?

[cobrin]

it's very unlikely to be condensation, the tank is tucked up underneath covered by the rest of the vehicle. Other possibilities would be water ingress from the cap or filler neck/flexible hose connection but still unlikely, or the fuel servo. For get the guff about the servo tanks being a year old, poor handling puts an end to that.

You can use metho, I use about 1/2L to the tank every so often (roughly 6mthly), a mate of mine has done in his T5 for over 600K kms. To no ill effect.

I'd drain the fuel filter housing as mentioned above and see if you have any water in the fuel. I keep to under a square centimetre, and if any larger I'd get the fuel tank drained.

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by manchu

If that was the case is it possible there's been any damage done?

It's always the possibility but you'd have to in part at least listen to the engine to notice a problem.

You'd want to check the sensor isn't giving a false error too.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by manchu

My 2012 TDCI Mondeo told me it detected water in the fuel this morning. Warning message disappeared after restarting.

Last fill was 10 days ago, 70L. I'm about 1/2 way through the tank.

This is my first diesel, and I've only done ~1000km so not sure it's anything to be concerned about.

Owners manual just says " Have the system checked by a properly trained technician as soon as possible"


any advice would be appreciated.

cheers

Changing the diesel fuel filter at 60kkm intervals is an important service requirement. If there was any doubt that it was done then that would be a concern.

I DIY service my cars and must admit I've never bothered to drain water (bad). The customer service guide classifies it as an under bonnet service item, from 2010 it is actually under the vehicle at the rear.

The injunction is: 'Drain water, if not renewed - Diesel models (with drain facility)

It sounds like water should be expected.

If the car hasn't stalled all should be good I'd suggest. I think the fuel pump is the most vulnerable to damage from water but don't know to what extent.

These cars have a history of throwing false alarms?

Metho is not a good idea in my opinion,
it would in theory reduce the lubricating quality of the fuel, which is required for the fuel pump?

You need the water (if any) drained from the filter housing.

[NZ XR6]

You'd expect that if the water had been in the fuel, then the warning would have come up much sooner. How many days was it?

I try to buy diesel from large, busy service stations. It might cost another few cents per litre sometimes, but I see it as cheap insurance.

I haven't noticed the drain filter service item in the service schedule - must have another look.

[manchu]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

You'd expect that if the water had been in the fuel, then the warning would have come up much sooner. How many days was it?.

About 10 days, so I agree it's unlikely to be contaminated fuel.


So, Where do I find the fuel filter? (Late 2012 MC wagon).

I'll do the drain now then get filter changed when it's in for a service in a few weeks.

[rondeo]

Under the rear end in front of the fuel tank and above the stabilizer bar.
There's a spigot for attaching a pvc tube if you want. No need to drain more than half a cup I'd say. Don't forget the safety stand if using a jack.

[Mondaveo]

Don't forget V8kado has some nifty photos in his thread to help you identify what to look for

[NZ XR6]

I've checked for water in mine, not a drop. It hasn't been done at least since the last dealer service almost 3 years ago. But why an 18mm drain plug? Apart from sockets, all I had to fit it was a spanner from a set.

I may get a workshop to change the filter. No doubt a simple job with the car on a hoist, but not fun for the home mechanic. I have little doubt that I would end up wearing some diesel.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

I've checked for water in mine, not a drop. It hasn't been done at least since the last dealer service almost 3 years ago. But why an 18mm drain plug? Apart from sockets, all I had to fit it was a spanner from a set.

I may get a workshop to change the filter. No doubt a simple job with the car on a hoist, but not fun for the home mechanic. I have little doubt that I would end up wearing some diesel.

I wouldn't recommend changing the filter unless you have a priming pump and know what to do.
The filter holds 500ml of fuel which is replaced by air when you change it. The only foolproof way to prime it is with a pump like a mityvac, I reckon.

There is a risk of stalling while driving and possible damage to the high pressure pump if the system isn't primed. Not to mention a flat battery trying to start the engine. It should start immediately and run normally afterwards if the job is done properly.

Here are my notes to self:

Remove the electrical connector from the filter housing.
Remove the 10mm fuel inlet quick release connector and insert blanking plug into the 10mm female QR connector.
Remove the 12mm fuel outlet quick release connector and insert blanking plug into the 12mm female QR connector.

Drain 500ml of diesel from filter housing using the drain plug (18mm spanner).

Remove the filter housing from the bracket on the vehicle and replace filter element. Loosening bracket retaining bolts may be necessary.
Alternatively, remove the filter housing complete with bracket and replace filter element.
After replacing the filter install the filter housing/housing and bracket to the vehicle.

A hand operated vacuum tester with a bottle may be used to prime the filter. The 10mm female fuel tank outlet is connected to the 10mm filter housing inlet spigot while fuel is drawn from the 12mm male outlet on the filter housing with the vacuum pump via a waste bottle until fuel begins to flow into the waste bottle.

Install the fuel line connectors to the filter housing.
Install the electrical connector.
Excess diesel can be returned to the tank using the Ford adapter funnel.

[manchu]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

Don't forget V8kado has some nifty photos in his thread to help you identify what to look for

Originally Posted by rondeo

Under the rear end in front of the fuel tank and above the stabilizer bar.

That's where I was expecting but the filter must have moved in mid 2012 onward models because mines not there (behind fuel tank, above stabiliser).

I think it's just forward of the fuel tank, but under a cover so can't say for sure. I can just see what looks like fuel line connectors.

(would post some pics but haven't worked out how yet)

[manchu]

I think I've worked out the pics.
- 1st pic is showing just forward of the tank (looking forward), where I think the filter is.
- 2nd and 3rd are where I expected to find the filter (based on V8kado pics)

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by rondeo

I wouldn't recommend changing the filter unless you have a priming pump and know what to do.
The filter holds 500ml of fuel which is replaced by air when you change it. The only foolproof way to prime it is with a pump like a mityvac, I reckon.

There is a risk of stalling while driving and possible damage to the high pressure pump if the system isn't primed. Not to mention a flat battery trying to start the engine. It should start immediately and run normally afterwards if the job is done properly.

Here are my notes to self:

Remove the electrical connector from the filter housing.
Remove the 10mm fuel inlet quick release connector and insert blanking plug into the 10mm female QR connector.
Remove the 12mm fuel outlet quick release connector and insert blanking plug into the 12mm female QR connector.

Drain 500ml of diesel from filter housing using the drain plug (18mm spanner).

Remove the filter housing from the bracket on the vehicle and replace filter element. Loosening bracket retaining bolts may be necessary.
Alternatively, remove the filter housing complete with bracket and replace filter element.
After replacing the filter install the filter housing/housing and bracket to the vehicle.

A hand operated vacuum tester with a bottle may be used to prime the filter. The 10mm female fuel tank outlet is connected to the 10mm filter housing inlet spigot while fuel is drawn from the 12mm male outlet on the filter housing with the vacuum pump via a waste bottle until fuel begins to flow into the waste bottle.

Install the fuel line connectors to the filter housing.
Install the electrical connector.
Excess diesel can be returned to the tank using the Ford adapter funnel.

Thanks, I do understand what's involved, but just really dislike diesel!

[bundybear75]

Stolen from V8kado's post

[manchu]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Stolen from V8kado's post

Cheers. I did check out those pics earlier but my MC is different. I tried to take same pic showing distinct lack of filter in that area. See my post below.

Not my problem now anyway. I just dropped the car at dealer I bought from. They'll change filter tomorrow, no charge! And gave me a courtesy car. I guess they feel bad about taking a month to fix my tranny.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by manchu

Cheers. I did check out those pics earlier but my MC is different. I tried to take same pic showing distinct lack of filter in that area. See my post below.

Not my problem now anyway. I just dropped the car at dealer I bought from. They'll change filter tomorrow, no charge! And gave me a courtesy car. I guess they feel bad about taking a month to fix my tranny.

May have to check mine. It's a Dec 12 model so may be different too. I know there was a change in filter size during 2012 - may have something to do with the location change. I'll stick my head under tomorrow arvo and advise.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

image

Stolen from V8kado's post

That is so clean!

[manchu]

Thanks all for the help. Picked the car up yesterday and did a 300km+ drive today with no issues. Might just be in my head but seems a bit more responsive with a fresh filter.

First chance I've had to give the car a decent test. Great to get 6l/100km fully loaded. Well, not fully in this huge boot, but it would have been in our old car.

Still keen to hear from anyone that can confirm filter location in the late 2012 on MCs.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by manchu

My 2012 TDCI Mondeo told me it detected water in the fuel this morning. Warning message disappeared after restarting.

Last fill was 10 days ago, 70L. I'm about 1/2 way through the tank.

This is my first diesel, and I've only done ~1000km so not sure it's anything to be concerned about.

Owners manual just says " Have the system checked by a properly trained technician as soon as possible"


any advice would be appreciated.

cheers

Did the trained technician find any water, or was this a false alarm?

Anyone know where the filter is on late 2012 diesel?

[manchu]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Did the trained technician find any water, or was this a false alarm?

No idea. Nothing mentioned in their report and the guy who I spoke to when collecting didn't know.

When I spoke to a ford service guy he seemed pretty sure it was a case of filter needing to be drained, but he didn't seem too concerned about it being done immediately.

[rondeo]

That's disappointing, now we'll never know if there was an fault in the water in fuel detection or reporting system . . .

Good the car's going OK though.

[NZ XR6]

Ford F-series diesel trucks in the US have had problems with contamination of the WIF sensor, but I found nothing for the Mondeo.

The sensor is a resistive device and responds to the increased conductivity of water compared with diesel.

[ivorya]

Isn't it amazing that old diesel cars had a water bowl so you could visually look and drain water.

These new cars are all setup to fail, so you have to spend big $$$ on replacing parts.

Although, you could install an extra filtration system with a bowl on the fuel line. Not sure how warranty would go with this though.

[NZ XR6]

To be fair, that's pretty much what the Mondeo has. The filter housing acts like the bowl, and the water in fuel sensor tells you when too much water has collected.

Also, it's very easy to drain some diesel from the filter and check for water.