Any interest in a FoMoCo V4..??

ennisfargis · 06-12-2019, 12:16 PM

Hi There

My father in law recently passed away & we are cleaning up his property.
I stumbled across this in the paddock.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C5...KcD0vZHv90VYUf

It's a FoMoCo V4.
He had some Transit Vans so i guess it either came out of one or he was planning to put it in.??
Just wondering how rare these are & if they are of value.?
I would hate to see it get binned or recycled & would rather see it rescued if it's a worthwhile exercise for someone.

Cheers

**Rallye Sport** · 06-12-2019, 04:39 PM

They were used in the Thames vans aswell, vary rare old things now. I think they were also used in some UK/ Euro vehicles too, Corsair, Capri maybe?
Wouldn't have thought there'd be much of a demand for them here but as you say it'd be a shame to see it go to scrap.

simon varley · 06-12-2019, 06:45 PM

does it turn over at all after sitting in a paddock so long? if so it might be worth a go. Burton Power still stock V4 parts

five 7 · 06-12-2019, 06:52 PM

From memory there was two types, the German Cologne one was better.

simon varley · 06-12-2019, 09:46 PM

pretty sure that's an Essex, but no idea what the gearbox is

Itsme · 07-12-2019, 09:27 AM

Contact any local ford or local car clubs in your area as they may help you getting it passed onto someone who might want the engine.
Cheers

simon varley · 07-12-2019, 10:09 AM

where are you anyway? if it turns over I may be interested

ennisfargis · 07-12-2019, 11:52 AM

The motor is in NE Vic. Near Wangaratta.
Unfortunately I am 3 hours away so can’t check if it turns over right now.
In hindsight it may have been in the shed all this time & maybe just dragged out recently.
Next time I’m up there I will check.
If it turns over I might bring it back home.
I have some more pics including casting numbers.
(Couldn’t find an engine no)
But I won’t be home till mid next week.
I will post then.
There’s also a couple of transit vans.
Tip Top bread vans I think.
They are pretty trashed but probably could make one out of the 2.
It’s not a project I want to take on as I have a HZ panel van on the go at the moment.
I think this would be a nice motor for a Capri. Escort or early cortina.
If it’s fixable of course.
Cheers

5thFordWA · 07-12-2019, 07:13 PM

This would be good for someone who needs one for resto of an original Transit, but to be honest, they did not have a good reputation when new. Not that they broke, just they were rough running, rough idling, and got clunky when the balance shaft drive gears got worn, and being fairly low-geared they seemed to wear out pretty quickly.

A common conversion was to put in a Falcon six, but then the gearing was wrong so you ended up with an over-revving 6 cylinder. I remember one of the Falcon motors getting built into a motorhome by a Ford Dealer, and he went the extra mile of putting in a higher ratio Falcon diff centre to keep the rpm down.
This all led to Ford Australia producing a Falcon engined Transit at the factory, which was a decent vehicle for highway use.

The pity was that the V4 was the same basic design as the V6, which was a "magic" engine as fitted to the V6 Capri (late 1960's, early 1970's?). Both engines were built as 60deg Vee, which is perfect for a V6, but compromised for a V4 as the balance is wrong, hence the fitment of a gear driven balance shaft. The V6 was great.

A bit the same as the original Commodore 3.8 V6 was known as a cut-down Buick V8, so was running with 90deg vee, perfect for the V8, but requiring a balance shaft in a V6. Economics of manufacture is the reason for producing a range of engines with the same Vee angle, although compromises are made. Doesn't seem to make them fly apart or even wear out any quicker, just have inherent vibrations which require counter-balancing, or as with the GM V6 they later went to an offset crankpin on the crankshaft to overcome the uneven firing.

Anyway, I thought I would just throw that in for info, as someone who was a Ford dealer mechanic at that time.

Cheers.

hayseed · 07-12-2019, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5thFordWA

but to be honest, they did not have a good reputation when new. Not that they broke, just they were rough running, rough idling, and got clunky when the balance shaft drive gears got worn, and being fairly low-geared they seemed to wear out pretty quickly.

This thread is Bringing back all sorts of Bad memories..

I went To & from Primary for 7 Years in a V4 powered Transit Bus. The above Quote sums that Bus up Perfectly.......

MethodX · 08-12-2019, 12:52 AM

I could be wrong ... but I think one of these was in the original Mustang show car.
Before the Mustang everyone likes came along.

5thFordWA · 08-12-2019, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

This thread is Bringing back all sorts of Bad memories..
I went To & from Primary for 7 Years in a V4 powered Transit Bus. The above Quote sums that Bus up Perfectly.......

Ha Ha. I remembered this engine was also used in the UK Ford Corsair (1965-1971). Quoted from Wiki (funny):

"The range was revised in September 1965, adopting new Ford Essex V4 engines, making it rough at idle and coarse on the road.[citation needed] This engine was available in 1663 cc form at first, but later in 1966, a larger 2.0-litre L version was offered alongside. One marketing tag line for the V4 models was "The Car That Is Seen But Not Heard", which was a real stretch of the ad man's puff, given the inherent characteristics of the engine. The other tag was "I've got a V in my bonnet". A 3.0 litre conversion using the Ford Essex V6 engine was one of the options available via Crayford Engineering."

They were also used in other late 1960s UK Fords including MkIV Zephyr and Capri, in addition to the Transit and Corsair, according to Wiki. But I think the only Australian distributed Ford with the V4 was the Transit.

So there is probably a good market for one of these engines in reasonable condition, especially in UK.

Cheers.

roKWiz · 09-12-2019, 07:53 AM

I might be interested in the V4, I'm close by Wang.

HZ Holden panel van, now your talking.

re... the Transit engine swap, I had a 250 in a 1970 transit motorhome. The 4 speed held it back though especially when it would jump out of top gear.
Sold it before I got around to a 5 speed swap.

XD 351 Ute · 09-12-2019, 09:00 PM

I can remember these V4s being used for engine assembly competitions at shows.
A couple of teams of two people, one donk per each team; first to strip, rebuild then fire it up was the winner.

Ed

Citroënbender · 09-12-2019, 09:21 PM

Did any of the South African speed outfits have a crack at this motor - Alconi, Perana, that sort of business?

Capriman · 09-12-2019, 11:32 PM

The Ford V4 'Essex' was only ever used in the early Mk.1 Transit Vans assembled here in Australia. You will find a few in fully imported Corsairs and the odd fully imported Mk.1 Capri. Our Capri's assembled here at Homebush in NSW, only ever had the 1600cc 'Kent' in-line-four and the 3-litre 'Essex' V6.

As for the Renault Alconi using them, I seriously doubt it and if Basil Green (Perana man) in South Africa ever got involved with these, it would have only been to take them out, throw them away and replace them with an 'Essex' V6 or a 5-litre V8!

Capriman · 09-12-2019, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

pretty sure that's an Essex, but no idea what the gearbox is

It's a Transit 'Essex' V4, could be a 1.7 or a 2.0 litre (you'll find the 1.7 or 2.0 stamped on the pad on the front left hand side of the block) and its also a Transit gearbox!

Capriman · 09-12-2019, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

I could be wrong ... but I think one of these was in the original Mustang show car.
Before the Mustang everyone likes came along.

The engine used in the prototype Mustang 1 in 1962 was the German Ford 'Cardinal' or 'Taunus' 1500cc V4. These German V4's were a totally different breed of V4 to the English 'Essex' V4, as used in the Transit vans and UK Corsairs and UK Capri's.

MethodX · 10-12-2019, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capriman

The engine used in the prototype Mustang 1 in 1962 was the German Ford 'Cardinal' or 'Taunus' 1500cc V4. These German V4's were a totally different breed of V4 to the English 'Essex' V4, as used in the Transit vans and UK Corsairs and UK Capri's.

Thanx man.

Vesper Martini · 10-12-2019, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capriman

The Ford V4 'Essex' was only ever used in the early Mk.1 Transit Vans assembled here in Australia. You will find a few in fully imported Corsairs and the odd fully imported Mk.1 Capri. Our Capri's assembled here at Homebush in NSW, only ever had the 1600cc 'Kent' in-line-four and the 3-litre 'Essex' V6.

As for the Renault Alconi using them, I seriously doubt it and if Basil Green (Perana man) in South Africa ever got involved with these, it would have only been to take them out, throw them away and replace them with an 'Essex' V6 or a 5-litre V8!

The 1.6 Kent was so much better the essex V4 didn't rev. I assume they were made for the transit on space constraints, and only fitted to Capris and south African Fords because of a surplus
sorry I don't think that old V4 is worth much to anybody

Capriman · 10-12-2019, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

The 1.6 Kent was so much better the essex V4 didn't rev. I assume they were made for the transit on space constraints, and only fitted to Capris and south African Fords because of a surplus
sorry I don't think that old V4 is worth much to anybody

These Essex V4s were used in a variety of UK Ford designed vehicles including the Corsair, Capri Mk I, Consul/Granada Mk I, Ford Zephyr Mk IV and the Ford Transit Mk I van.

You're right about its worth, only useful for parts or for someone who wants to restore one of these old UK vehicles back to its original state!

**GasoLane** · 10-12-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capriman

The engine used in the prototype Mustang 1 in 1962 was the German Ford 'Cardinal' or 'Taunus' 1500cc V4. These German V4's were a totally different breed of V4 to the English 'Essex' V4, as used in the Transit vans and UK Corsairs and UK Capri's.

And SAAB 96's

ennisfargis · 11-12-2019, 07:10 PM

Thanks for everyone's input.

Below is a link to a folder with all the images i have.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12-...6eKheF18khDjdO

It seems we have established that it's rare motor.
Also not a very good motor & most likely not worth the money to restore.
So not worth a lot.
It seems to have some curiosity value which is at least something.

I will check to see if it turns by hand.
I don't hold high hopes but you never know.
It won't be for a few weeks as i won't get back up there probably until xmas.

I will post when i know, then if anyone is willing to save it from the scrapper we can maybe organise something.
Cheers

roKWiz · 12-12-2019, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ennisfargis

Thanks for everyone's input.

Below is a link to a folder with all the images i have.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=12-...6eKheF18khDjdO

It seems we have established that it's rare motor.
Also not a very good motor & most likely not worth the money to restore.
So not worth a lot.
It seems to have some curiosity value which is at least something.

I will check to see if it turns by hand.
I don't hold high hopes but you never know.
It won't be for a few weeks as i won't get back up there probably until xmas.

I will post when i know, then if anyone is willing to save it from the scrapper we can maybe organise something.
Cheers

I replied earlier in the thread, I would be interested, Is that on a property next to the rail line between Wang and Glenrowan ? Quite a few Transit vans sitting there. PM me.