Sixth Motorist Beats Trucam Speeding Fine...

[csv8]

A MOTORIST fined for speeding twice in 32 minutes has beaten the police in court - the sixth victory for drivers over officers using handheld speed cameras.

Should the police stop using TruCams? Leave a comment below

Brisbane businessman James Rouse was on his way to Pinkenba when he was snapped doing what police claimed was 73km/h in a 60km/h zone on Eagle Farm Road on January 22, 2013, and then at 78km/h on the same road on his way back into the city.

In what is believed to be the sixth victory for motorists who have challenged their TruCam speeding fines, Mr Rouse argued the device was not used according to the law.

LEGAL WIN: TruCam speed fines under a cloud

RULINGS UPHELD: Police yet to lodge single appeal

Magistrate Bronwyn Springer agreed, adding there was no evidence of the speed of the vehicle or the speed limit alleged to have been exceeded.

TruCams - which consist of a Lidar and video camera - were trialled in late 2011 and rolled out throughout the state last year.

But the lack of a "data block" being printed on images taken by TruCam devices have resulted in motorists beating their fines.

Although police have indicated they are considering appealing, no appeals have yet been lodged. The result saved Mr Rouse $440 in fines, and six demerit points.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226742038175

My comment : Time for a class action against Trucam handheld radar....

[Trump]

Originally Posted by csv8

My comment : Time for a class action against all RoboCops...

Fixed for you.

[xxx000]

csv8 - most of your threads seem along similar lines

anti govt, anti police,

[csv8]

xxx000 I am not anti gov..anti police only against the infringements of our democratic rights.
Govco/Police have one set of rules for them and one for us. We need a Bill of Rights ASAP.
If they used speed cameras as intended, black spots etc, no problems. Trucam IS an example where the police think they can get away with it . Govco has said" we will change the law, so Trucam cann't be challenged" !!! Illegal camera made legal and we are just supposed to accept it ???

[xxx000]

you say you're not anti police or anti govt and yet then use Flappists term 'Govco' and make the statement 'one set of rules for them....'

I'd hate to think what you'd write if you did have a vendetta against them

why don't you take them to court yourself?

nothing stopping you if you really believe you're correct re 'democratic rights'

start off in the Local Court and work your way up or even try and get a law firm to work pro bono on the case for you

lots better than trying to gee others up on here with your oh so similar thread topics

I await your excuse why you won't though

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by xxx000

you say you're not anti police or anti govt and yet then use Flappists term 'Govco' and make the statement 'one set of rules for them....'

I'd hate to think what you'd write if you did have a vendetta against them

why don't you take them to court yourself?

nothing stopping you if you really believe you're correct re 'democratic rights'

start off in the Local Court and work your way up or even try and get a law firm to work pro bono on the case for you

lots better than trying to gee others up on here with your oh so similar thread topics

I await your excuse why you won't though

Nothing wrong with a bit of information.
If you don't agree, just disregard it.

No need to jump down the guys throat.

[2011G6E]

Yes, don'tcha know you're never ever to question the police, or the sanctity of radar speed detection, the only measurement device of any kind on Earth that is always, absolutely, 100% accurate in all environmental conditions and never makes mistakes?

[BHDOGS]

Another speed camera thread

[Trump]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Another speed camera thread

And they will keep popping up for as long as govco keep insisting they are for road safety purposes.

[BHDOGS]

Then prepare to live the rest of ur life complaining

[Dash_XR]

The government is just a comercial entity like any other and they need to make money to surive like any other. The only difference being they can re write laws to increase profit and give them a competitive advantage.

A quote I heard the other day that I think sums up speed cameras perfectly, "If you have honey all over your hands you don't go wash them do you? You like your fingers".

Basically cameras will always exist while there is easy money to be had so there isn't really much point talking about it all the time.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

You know what I find funny about every single speed camera thread that comes up...???

No matter which side of the fence you sit, be that either conspiracy theorist (govco is out to get me, it's just revenue raising, my democratic rights are being voided, etc) or someone who just rolls over and accepts what is happening, there is one very simple way to ensure you don't aid either side of the argument.

And that is, don't speed. If you don't speed, you won't be feeding the coffers of govco. If you are the type that just goes with the flow and accepts things as they are, then not getting caught speeding will come naturally.

And yet, time and time again both sides of the argument put more energy into debating the rights and wrongs of this than actually doing the thing that will hurt the government most.

Craig H

[MAD]

So how did that Datsun get pinged for 158km/h in Melbourne when it couldn't do that speed on a race track? (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1121730.htm)
I had a fine removed simply by asking to see a calibration report from a different camera on the same road around the same time as the Datsun saga occurred. Probably about 3-6 months after.

What about the cameras under Wellington Rd bridge on Eastlink?

Cameras never make mistakes.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Then prepare to live the rest of ur life complaining

Is this the prevailing attitude and mindset in Australia???

[steve.zissou]

while these are nice short term wins, unfortunatly it will only be a matter of time until maquarie bank owned speed camera manufacturer comes up with a device that has iut intergrated.

is it a consipiracy theory - maybe - with the amount of expoliticians and ex burecrats that work for them i certainly have my doubts.

and psychobimbo i counter your argument - it doesnt matter if speed camerasa work or not, but if the govt sent speeders to safe driving course or training nights (like they do for DUI) and not take money in the form of fines then there wouldn't be an issue about revenue raising.

If speeding is so dangerous, shouldnt they pull you over then and there to stop you speeding so you dont continue on driving dangerously until the fine arives in the mail 4 weeks later?

If you just continue to take it they will continue to take!!!! until they put speed limiters in all cars, gps monitoring and secure video feeds (including into old cars) - and I am sure the same people will say "if you dont speed you have nothing to hide"

welcome to 1984 (guess he was 30years out with that title)

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Is this the prevailing attitude and mindset in Australia???

Yes......

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

while these are nice short term wins, unfortunatly it will only be a matter of time until maquarie bank owned speed camera manufacturer comes up with a device that has iut intergrated.

is it a consipiracy theory - maybe - with the amount of expoliticians and ex burecrats that work for them i certainly have my doubts.

and psychobimbo i counter your argument - it doesnt matter if speed camerasa work or not, but if the govt sent speeders to safe driving course or training nights (like they do for DUI) and not take money in the form of fines then there wouldn't be an issue about revenue raising.

If speeding is so dangerous, shouldnt they pull you over then and there to stop you speeding so you dont continue on driving dangerously until the fine arives in the mail 4 weeks later?

who says being physically stopped and fined stops you from speeding again straight away?

the fine is there as a deterent, as are the demerit points and subsequent loss of licence

if the govt was so focussed on the fines as some suggest wouldn't they remove the demerit points component to allow serial speeders the opportunity to keep speeding?

where's the proof that 'safe driving courses' (your term not mine) work on reducing speeding or even make safer drivers?
I've heard that they in fact can make some drivers even more over confident in their own abilities

Does anyone honestly believe that removing the $ fine component of tickets would completely stop them complaining?

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by MAD

So how did that Datsun get pinged for 158km/h in Melbourne when it couldn't do that speed on a race track? (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1121730.htm)

that story is going on 10 years old !!

[MAD]

Originally Posted by xxx000

that story is going on 10 years old !!

Is that all you could pick out of that?

How about this... Ten years on and we're still having problems with cameras.
Eastlink isn't 10 yrs old.

Or

How about the crap attitude from the Police towards that woman after it was proven independently that the car couldn't do anywhere near the speed it was detected at?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

and psychobimbo i counter your argument - it doesnt matter if speed camerasa work or not, but if the govt sent speeders to safe driving course or training nights (like they do for DUI) and not take money in the form of fines then there wouldn't be an issue about revenue raising.

Steve, I'm going to take a guess that you are a "speed cameras is just revenue raising" guy. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

So, you are proposing to take some form of political stance to eventually get legislation across all forms of government changed so that convicted speedsters are sent to a "safe driving course or training night". Ok, fair enough. How long do you think it will take from inception until your idea is implemented? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? And how much will it cost to do so? 100's of thousands? Millions?

And yet, there is something you can do right now that will cost you absolutely nothing (in fact, it may even save you money) that will have immediate impact upon the governments policy (if you truly believe it is just revenue raising). But for some reason, the obvious answer is unpalatable?

I just don't get it.

Originally Posted by MAD

So how did that Datsun get pinged for 158km/h in Melbourne when it couldn't do that speed on a race track? (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1121730.htm)
I had a fine removed simply by asking to see a calibration report from a different camera on the same road around the same time as the Datsun saga occurred. Probably about 3-6 months after.

What about the cameras under Wellington Rd bridge on Eastlink?

Cameras never make mistakes.

MAD, if your post was directed at mine, I will never take the stance that being pinged by any form of policing is appropriate if you have not done the crime. Fight it if you think it is worth it (be that financially, emotionally, politically, etc).

I also will never say that any system is perfect. No matter what arrangements any system has in place, there are always flaws. Nothing is perfect. Again, if you think you have have been unfairly pinged for something you are sure you did not do, then fight it (if you think it is worth it).

But both of these have absolutely nothing to do with the comments I made in my post.

Craig H

[MAD]

It's totally on point psychobimbo.
You said "If you don't speed, you won't be feeding the coffers of govco"

Tell that to the lady in the Datto, or the Volvo truck with a speed limit of 140km/h being detected at 174, or the hundreds done by the Eastlink cameras at Wellington Rd.

47 cameras were shut down in Melbourne for review because they were not maintained properly, and they were found to be faulty, resulting in the refund of 90,000 fines. (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...289868873.html)





But if we don't speed, we won't contribute....


How many people get a fine for 5km/h over and assume it must be correct and simply pay it?
I can't remember the exact speed I was doing on an exact patch of road 2 weeks ago. Can you?

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Is this the prevailing attitude and mindset in Australia???

Yup Becoz after everybody's complained the subject is flogged to death the same
Old arguments givin its repeated next week on these forums. Your taking my mindset about the repetitive nature of a repetitive thread on a forum and constructing it into an Australian wide mindset on speed cameras to fluff up your own view point.

[|Nate]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

You know what I find funny about every single speed camera thread that comes up...???

That there's always someone like you that comes in and says, "Oh but if you just don't speed at all, you won't get fined!" ?

For speed cameras to truly be effective they need to be put in high risk to life zones.

I have NEVER seen a mobile/fixed camera at:
Big roadwork zones.
School zones.
Black spots.
Shopping strips (Except one or two at intersections.)
etc etc.

Where I HAVE seen them:
5 Lane city freeways with high quality tarmac.
2 Lane rural freeways with high quality tarmac on straight sections.
Dual lane country back roads in non high accident areas.
Dual/quad lane rural main roads in non high accident areas.
and pretty much anywhere else that has never been high risk.

How can anybody possibly have confidence in this "safety system" with how it's setup currently?

How is getting pinged for doing under 10 km/h over on an empty road at 2 am going to save lives?

I'm all for road safety and quelling unsafe speeding, but there needs to be more logic applied when writing legislation. Not just, "One person crashed here while going 180 km/h and being 5 times over the alcohol limit, better drop this area 20 km/h lower and install 3 speed cameras!"


Unfortunately I feel the system, politicians and general public are too entrenched with this "speed kills" mantra, and that nothing will change for a long long time.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by MAD

It's totally on point psychobimbo.
You said "If you don't speed, you won't be feeding the coffers of govco"

Tell that to the lady in the Datto, or the Volvo truck with a speed limit of 140km/h being detected at 174, or the hundreds done by the Eastlink cameras at Wellington Rd.

47 cameras were shut down in Melbourne for review because they were not maintained properly, and they were found to be faulty, resulting in the refund of 90,000 fines. (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...289868873.html)

But if we don't speed, we won't contribute....


How many people get a fine for 5km/h over and assume it must be correct and simply pay it?
I can't remember the exact speed I was doing on an exact patch of road 2 weeks ago. Can you?

You're right, I did. And I can see the point you're making now that you've clarified it a bit further. And I can see how you think it is relevant. But, I think you have taken me out of context a little.

My point was that if you are concerned about speed cameras only being there for revenue, don't speed and you won't be adding to the coffers (excepting for errors in the speed detection systems employed). Does that sound better?

Irrespective of your (our) thoughts on speed cameras, no detection system employed will ever be 100% perfect 100% of the time. So, do we stop monitoring and measuring speed altogether, or do we accept that sometimes things may not quite work as they should. If they can be proven to not be right, use that as means to improve the system. But also don't forget that the imperfections in the system are likely to work both ways, so sometimes you have to accept the bad with the good. C'est la vie

Craig H

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by |Nate

That there's always someone like you that comes in and says, "Oh but if you just don't speed at all, you won't get fined!" ?

For speed cameras to truly be effective they need to be put in high risk to life zones.

I have NEVER seen a mobile/fixed camera at:
Big roadwork zones.
School zones.
Black spots.
Shopping strips (Except one or two at intersections.)
etc etc.

Where I HAVE seen them:
5 Lane city freeways with high quality tarmac.
2 Lane rural freeways with high quality tarmac on straight sections.
Dual lane country back roads in non high accident areas.
Dual/quad lane rural main roads in non high accident areas.
and pretty much anywhere else that has never been high risk.

How can anybody possibly have confidence in this "safety system" with how it's setup currently?

How is getting pinged for doing under 10 km/h over on an empty road at 2 am going to save lives?

I'm all for road safety and quelling unsafe speeding, but there needs to be more logic applied when writing legislation. Not just, "One person crashed here while going 180 km/h and being 5 times over the alcohol limit, better drop this area 20 km/h lower and install 3 speed cameras!"


Unfortunately I feel the system, politicians and general public are too entrenched with this "speed kills" mantra, and that nothing will change for a long long time.

Refer here: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=24

I knew I shouldn't have weighed in to the discussion. It was against my better judgement that I did.

At the end of the day, I think we all have to accept that there are many different passionate views out there on this subject and that no amount of bleating (from all sides) on this forum is going to change things. It's time to move on.

On that note, I'm bugging out of this one.....

Craig H

[MAD]

Originally Posted by |Nate

Unfortunately I feel the system, politicians and general public are too entrenched with this "speed kills" mantra, and that nothing will change for a long long time.

It certainly does seem that everyone with anything to do with the whole "speed kills" campaign have been brainwashed by their own marketing.
And that does zero for confidence in the system.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by MAD

It's totally on point psychobimbo.
You said "If you don't speed, you won't be feeding the coffers of govco"

Tell that to the lady in the Datto, or the Volvo truck with a speed limit of 140km/h being detected at 174, or the hundreds done by the Eastlink cameras at Wellington Rd.

47 cameras were shut down in Melbourne for review because they were not maintained properly, and they were found to be faulty, resulting in the refund of 90,000 fines. (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...289868873.html)





But if we don't speed, we won't contribute....


How many people get a fine for 5km/h over and assume it must be correct and simply pay it?
I can't remember the exact speed I was doing on an exact patch of road 2 weeks ago. Can you?

I'd say most if not all people can't be sure of the exact speed they were doing moments ago so what's your point?
do you really want to pay for marked police cars to be located every km or so or are you using the fact that there isn't as a convenient excuse to whinge?

some of the camera 'errors' aren't errors with the detected speed but errors that affect the legality of the detection and penalty under the legislation.
We have governments to enact new legislation and change other because we live in a dynamic world.

And as stated by psychobimbo yes there are errors, just as there are errors with a human only system.
Nobody is saying the system is perfect but come up with one where nobody on the publics side will whinge and yet will still have the desired effect of slowing people down and we'll congratulate you

[MAD]

Originally Posted by xxx000

I'd say most if not all people can't be sure of the exact speed they were doing moments ago so what's your point?

The point is that if someone receives a fine in the mail 2 weeks on, how can they remember if they were speeding at that exact moment, or if the camera was at fault.

Most people will probably assume they were speeding and just pay the fine rather than question the system.


If the system is never questioned it opens the door for the system to potentially continue operating incorrectly, until it goes really wrong and attracts enough attention from the media.

[xxx000]

read my comment again pls

do you know exactly what speed you were doing 2 seconds ago?

I suspect not so what difference does 2 weeks make ?

[MAD]

I'll read yours again, after you read mine.

Sure, many of the refunded fines would have simply been administration errors, but as shown by the Datsun, they do get it wrong too.
So how many of the 90,000 refunded fines were real errors that were simply paid because someone trusted that the system was correct?