XR8 vs SSV including dyno test - Page 9

hootar · 13-01-2015, 01:35 PM

This is not directed at anybody in particular but Who would have thought that the creators of AFF would have created this forum so some of the people on here could Slag off the Ford product at the drop of a hat.

Amazing

b0son · 13-01-2015, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Terri is Fords take on a Falcon Wagon. Terri VS commodore wagon, I think the Terri wins there.

Falcon wagon is Ford's take on a Falcon wagon, not Terri. The Falcon wagon continued to sell alongside the Terri for 6 years. You cant grab a car from another segment to improve your argument.

Commodore wagon wins because Falcon doesn't have one, and even when they did, it was an ancient design that was simply offered for the sake of offering one.

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Falcon wagon is Ford's take on a Falcon wagon, not Terri. The Falcon wagon continued to sell alongside the Terri for 6 years. You cant grab a car from another segment to improve your argument.

Commodore wagon wins because Falcon doesn't have one, and even when they did, it was an ancient design that was simply offered for the sake of offering one.

I see you didnt pick any of the other points I made...

Fine, I'll play your game. I dont want a Wagon just cause I need to carry long stuff. I'll stick to the Sedan that CAN DO THAT without me having to compromise to a wagon. You cant grab a Wagon that is different segment to a Sedan...

Happy Now?

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hootar

This is not directed at anybody in particular but Who would have thought that the creators of AFF would have created this forum so some of the people on here could Slag off the Ford product at the drop of a hat.

Amazing

Surely you know AFF stands for - Anti Ford Forums

**PepeLePew** · 13-01-2015, 02:15 PM

Pointless being one eyed for the sake of calling the place a Ford enthusiast forum. This place has always tried to toe that fine line between censoring the negative to keep discussion on track yet allowing freedom of opinion. Can't really win and please both camps. But both are welcome regardless. It's when it becomes personal or simply trolling the line is well and truly crossed.... The internet is full of rational discussions of course

Not

Well versed criticism and slagging are a mere word or two apart.

b0son · 13-01-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Fine, I'll play your game. I dont want a Wagon just cause I need to carry long stuff. I'll stick to the Sedan that CAN DO THAT without me having to compromise to a wagon. You cant grab a Wagon that is different segment to a Sedan...

I'm just saying make it an apples to apples comparison. The Falcon SEDAN is overall better for carrying because Holden didn't want to have split/fold rears, a huge issue where practicality is concerned. No doubt they wanted to push people to the wagon, but like you said, compromises ... for me the compromise would have been being forced to have an auto.

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

I'm just saying make it an apples to apples comparison. The Falcon SEDAN is overall better for carrying because Holden didn't want to have split/fold rears, a huge issue where practicality is concerned. No doubt they wanted to push people to the wagon, but like you said, compromises ... for me the compromise would have been being forced to have an auto.

Agreed. I brought up the Terri only cause the Wagon had been introduced.

Sorry I sounded rude.

Agreed with the forced into an Auto. I wish I could have got the EcoBoost in a manual. I reckon that would have been a lot of fun! But the way the world is going, our beloved manuals are going the way of the dodo... but I digress.

dimka100 · 13-01-2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

I wish I could have got the EcoBoost in a manual. I reckon that would have been a lot of fun!

The EcoBoost should have been made available in XR if it was to have any chance of attracting sales ...

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

The EcoBoost should have been made available in XR if it was to have any chance of attracting sales ...

well thats one thing we can agree on!

Falcon SXR8 · 13-01-2015, 05:55 PM

To the people saying ford didn't invest and engineer the falcon chassis to bring it up to modern standards, what about that old engine the holden has done nothing with for years??

Here we have a car in 2015 with a 6 speed auto pulling 0-100 and quarter mile times pretty spot on with a 2003 stock 4spd auto xr6 turbo. Of course holden has a better chassis there motor is the same crate rubbish that costs them hardly anything, they would want to put the money else were.

bradles024 · 13-01-2015, 06:00 PM

The vf is much faster than a 03 turbo. 13.1 seconds for the VF ss and high 13s low 14s for the ba.

Cashie · 13-01-2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hootar

This is not directed at anybody in particular but Who would have thought that the creators of AFF would have created this forum so some of the people on here could Slag off the Ford product at the drop of a hat.

Amazing

We might be Ford fans but we aren't blind fools.
Most of us will say it how we see it.

End of the day, Ford have done an awesome job with the FG X with the money they had and the **** poor sales expectations. Shame they can't advertise the product.

The Ford v's Holden war has been around since the beginning of time, a bit of healthy debate and discussion (even on a Ford Forum) is perfectly fine.

zilo · 13-01-2015, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradles024

The vf is much faster than a 03 turbo. 13.1 seconds for the VF ss and high 13s low 14s for the ba.

Just curious...

13.1s for the SS? In stock form?

Where/When did you get those times?

Falcon SXR8 · 13-01-2015, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradles024

The vf is much faster than a 03 turbo. 13.1 seconds for the VF ss and high 13s low 14s for the ba.

Not in this test mate 6.4 0-100 and in the 14s quarter. But that's not really the point I was trying to make anyway, look at how much faster an fg xr6 turbo is compared to a ba or how much faster the fgx xr8 is to a bf xr8 massive improvements the ss on the other hand is the same old same old in the engine area.

Holden spent on the chassis and ford spent on the motors choose your poison

bradles024 · 13-01-2015, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Just curious...

13.1s for the SS? In stock form?

Where/When did you get those times?

http://m.drive.com.au/motor-news/at-...701-2p79b.html

Doesn't seem right that the turbo got the same time, but they're both quick.

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradles024

http://m.drive.com.au/motor-news/at-...701-2p79b.html

Doesn't seem right that the turbo got the same time, but they're both quick.

They are running 19's (lux pack) on the XR6T but 18's on the SS. The XR6T comes standard with 18's which are better for drag racing with the extra thickness of the sidewall and lower tyre pressure required. Biased again...

bradles024 · 13-01-2015, 08:04 PM

If they wanted to be biased they could run the redline with the 275 rears, or the manual with the extra power and launch control. I'm sure they just run what they're given.

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradles024

If they wanted to be biased they could run the redline with the 275 rears, or the manual with the extra power and launch control. I'm sure they just run what they're given.

Edit: It was launched. I think this was an entry level fight.

They could have requested it the same size wheels. Especially if they are going to the drags.

I think the Autos are quicker even with the manuals' launch control.

If I was a journalist, I'd hope to maintain some integrity and make sure all my tests/comparison were as objective as possible.

bradles024 · 13-01-2015, 08:18 PM

13.1 is still a great time for a stock car.

skoobysGT · 13-01-2015, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Holden spent on the chassis and ford spent on the motors choose your poison

What has Ford actually done to improve the motor? These were made for FPV's and are now placed into a Ford Falcon. . You can say the same thing is going to happen to the SS when they put the HSV's LS3 into the commodores next year

So if that's the case then Holden has improved it's chassis and Ford have done stuff all to their's

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

What has Ford actually done to improve the motor? These were made for FPV's and are now placed into a Ford Falcon. . You can say the same thing is going to happen to the SS when they put the HSV's LS3 into the commodores next year

So if that's the case then Holden has improved it's chassis and Ford have done stuff all to their's

Wow! You really have an agenda against Ford, dont you... Fair Go mate...

FPV (unlike HSV) was part owned by Ford. HSV is its own company (which is why we might see a Chysler HSV and other brands come 2017). And unlike GMH, Ford Aus and FPV worked apart from Ford USA, developing their own engines. Same thing for the F6 engine.

GMH imports directly from GM USA. Very different. HSV's LS3 isnt HSV's. Its GM's LS3. HSV dont play with the engines. They are crate motors.

The post also was talking about the i6(T) vs the V6 engines that Holden "developed".

skoobysGT · 13-01-2015, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Wow! You really have an agenda against Ford, dont you... Fair Go mate...
.

Haha I actually like fords too. . I have a Ford focus in my garage as we speak

I thought people were saying so much money was spent on the motor for the Falcon when they were just taken from the FPV line up and Holden were only spending money on the chassis for the Commodore. . My bad

Falcon SXR8 · 13-01-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

What has Ford actually done to improve the motor? These were made for FPV's and are now placed into a Ford Falcon. . You can say the same thing is going to happen to the SS when they put the HSV's LS3 into the commodores next year

So if that's the case then Holden has improved it's chassis and Ford have done stuff all to their's

yep when that happens the ss will be a nice all round package, but it hasn't yet, right now the ss has the old donk its had for years and gives the Americans the better version.

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

Haha I actually like fords too. . I thought people were saying so much money was spent on the motor for the Falcon when they were just taken from the FPV line up and Holden were only spending money on the chassis for the Commodore. . My bad

It was spent... wrt FGX, yes, you're right that they didnt spend any money on the motors, nor did they spend any money on anything except the Sync 2 system, rain sensing wipers and the revised bonnet/boot (maybe a couple more things but not all that much). Not much you can do with $103m for 2 cars. The FG cost $800m in comparison.

Ford Aus blew their money in the past on the new XR6T (wasnt just a hand me down F6 engine), XR8 (again 290 engine specs were different to the FPV 290 engine), EcoLPi (far more advanced than the Holden offering) and fitting the EcoBoost (first car with RWD setup for the engine; but to be fair Holden to spend money to fit the V8 engines).

When FPV blew $40 mill just on the motor and didnt make back enough, the chassis went neglected. R Spec was a step in the right direction but... we know the rest.

GMH and HSV just imported the next best engine from the states and the V6's dont have a FI motor since the VT SS. Less development cost again... More to throw to the dynamics.

SensationFG8 · 13-01-2015, 09:32 PM

To be honest I'm proud that Aussies developed the Miami. It's something we should be proud of rather than just trying to tear down.

SensationFG8 · 13-01-2015, 09:46 PM

Sorry are the guys from prodrive not aussie? They sure had aussie accents when I chatted with them.

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempted

Wasn't it developed by Prodrive from a U.S parts bin? I don't really think Ford Australia can take full credit for it, unlike the inline 6.

Love to see which U.S. parts bin I can find a harrop supercharger...

SensationFG8 · 13-01-2015, 09:57 PM

You know the Miami development was done in their Melbourne factory right?

Some people just wanna be haters I guess *shrug*

SensationFG8 · 13-01-2015, 10:07 PM

I don't see what this has to do with my original quote you responded to, what is the point you are trying to make?

**kypez** · 13-01-2015, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempted

So it was done in Prodrive's factory and not at Ford Australia?

If it wasn't for Prodrive do you think the Miami would exist? Ford would probably still be using the 5.4 boss.

Just wow...

I think you need to read up on FPV... The 5.4 was developed by FPV as well and it didn't make the new emission standards. So no, Ford wouldn't still be using the old boss engine