FG wagon - what would it have been?

[Thunder]

A new falcon wagon is easy, with no costly "platform/development" costs.

Just lower the Territory and run it rear-wheel-drive. It already wears the "mark 2" nose.

Bingo, the New Falcon Wagon.

Merry Christmas.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Thunder

A new falcon wagon is easy, with no costly "platform/development" costs.

Just lower the Territory and run it rear-wheel-drive. It already wears the "mark 2" nose.

Actually, don't joke about the nose and front lines of the Territory,
I have a feeling that FG III will get that bolder front or one like it.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Actually, don't joke about the nose and front lines of the Territory,
I have a feeling that FG III will get that bolder front or one like it.

design language slowly getting closer to the americans.

[Bossxr8]

Someone on here has already mentioned it will get the Territory headlights.

But thats ok cause they do look good.

[monte.b]

the territory hasnt got enough room in the rear to swing a cat around in ,i reckon they should bring back the falcon wagon ,one of the reason the cab blokes liked them was the old buggy springs on the rear ,they are safe and never wear out ,can take a good load and ride just fine ,we have an old ef wagon and its just a gem

[Spanrz]

Would love to see proper suspension. The Wagon received sub-standard suspension, that is across the EA-ED range and IMHO the BA.
Having owned an EA, ED and now the BA, all models had the front suspension of the sedans and the rear was leaf. The cars were heavier than the sedans.

The rear suspension was too soft IMHO, but it was made for rideability (softness). Any weight in the back and it sagged down to the bumpstops.
My method of madness was to put aftermark ones in, which made a huge difference.

I reckon these cars needed slightly stiffer suspension than the sedans. Whoever thought that they didn't, was wrong.
Since upgrading all 3 cars to stiffer suspension, the rideability and driveability improved so much better.
Handling was more noticeable and direct. Car didn't feel like a wallowing boat in heavy seas.

A work collegue commented on my car, as he drives a BA XR6 and cannot drive over speed humps in a certain area.
Drove him home one night and he commented how "wow" was the suspension, as he didn't think the wagon would handle it that well.
I told him I put heavier leafs and stiffer fronts on the car and he was like "wow, stiffer but very much comfortable".
All springs were standard height King Springs, with KYB struts.
The leafs had one extra leaf than the spec ones, and each leaf was about 3 mm thicker. It made all the difference. (empty and loaded)

I know stiffer suspension is a hard call on a common car (to please everyone), but I think with this combination you can't go wrong.
It just needs to be tad stiffer than the spec (or sedan for that matter), you'd then have a better car. Wagons do not belong with the sedan's suspension. Otherwise they are just a boat.

[Swordie]

Originally Posted by Spanrz

Would love to see proper suspension. The Wagon received sub-standard suspension, that is across the EA-ED range and IMHO the BA.
Having owned an EA, ED and now the BA, all models had the front suspension of the sedans and the rear was leaf. The cars were heavier than the sedans.

The rear suspension was too soft IMHO, but it was made for rideability (softness). Any weight in the back and it sagged down to the bumpstops.
My method of madness was to put aftermark ones in, which made a huge difference.

I reckon these cars needed slightly stiffer suspension than the sedans. Whoever thought that they didn't, was wrong.
Since upgrading all 3 cars to stiffer suspension, the rideability and driveability improved so much better.
Handling was more noticeable and direct. Car didn't feel like a wallowing boat in heavy seas.

A work collegue commented on my car, as he drives a BA XR6 and cannot drive over speed humps in a certain area.
Drove him home one night and he commented how "wow" was the suspension, as he didn't think the wagon would handle it that well.
I told him I put heavier leafs and stiffer fronts on the car and he was like "wow, stiffer but very much comfortable".
All springs were standard height King Springs, with KYB struts.
The leafs had one extra leaf than the spec ones, and each leaf was about 3 mm thicker. It made all the difference. (empty and loaded)

I know stiffer suspension is a hard call on a common car (to please everyone), but I think with this combination you can't go wrong.
It just needs to be tad stiffer than the spec (or sedan for that matter), you'd then have a better car. Wagons do not belong with the sedan's suspension. Otherwise they are just a boat.

What sort of suspension did you put in?

[TMC]

There's a lot of love for the old Falcon wagon. You see heaps of them on the road. Taxis' especially.

I think getting rid of the wagon was more about dropping the long wheelbase configuration that the Fairlane had and less about loss of sales. So cost cutting rather than "we couldn't sell any". Having one wheelbase configuration in the Falcon will cut costs, but it will also cut sales volume.

I have to agree with the thought that those who would have bought the FG wagon have just gone to Holden nowadays.

Oh well.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by TMC

I have to agree with the thought that those who would have bought the FG wagon have just gone to Holden nowadays.

don't agree. there is nothing to back up this line of thinking.

why do people think that lost falcon sales go directly to commodore

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by TMC

I think getting rid of the wagon was more about dropping the long wheelbase configuration that the Fairlane had and less about loss of sales. So cost cutting rather than "we couldn't sell any". Having one wheelbase configuration in the Falcon will cut costs, but it will also cut sales volume.

Problem with that is, historically when the wagon and ute were developed on the long wheelbase, they were really developed on the long wheelbase floorpan. By the time Ford was building AU, they didnt simply have a SWB and LWB floor. They had 1 SWB floor and 3 LWB floors, as wagon, ute and LWB sedan did not share anything in common in the rear floor.

So yes it is about less complexity, but far more than perhaps some people realise.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by prydey

don't agree. there is nothing to back up this line of thinking.

why do people think that lost falcon sales go directly to commodore

Cos they do.

[ConradP]

Originally Posted by TMC

Cos they do.

Because there isn't any other car manufacturers around D:

[TMC]

Originally Posted by ConradP

Because there isn't any other car manufacturers around D:

Yes, where is the alternative to the Commodore wagon. I'm not saying Ford will set the world on fire with wagon sales, but there is a market, who does not view the Territory as an alternative to the Falcon wagon.

Virtually everyone I mention the extinct Falcon wagon too, instantly say that Holden will pick up the sale. I don't prompt them. Those who own BA and BF wagons may not even know there is no FG wagon yet, but when they go to upgrade they'll realise, and they'll either have to buy a sedan, or a wagon Commodore, or something totally different that Ford don't produce.

I understand that FoA are a small player in the world car market, and that tooling up for every possible variant isn't possible, but if Ford are mainly interested in fleet buyers etc, even just for the Taxi industry, deleting the wagon was like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by TMC

Yes, where is the alternative to the Commodore wagon. I'm not saying Ford will set the world on fire with wagon sales, but there is a market, who does not view the Territory as an alternative to the Falcon wagon.

Virtually everyone I mention the extinct Falcon wagon too, instantly say that Holden will pick up the sale. I don't prompt them. Those who own BA and BF wagons may not even know there is no FG wagon yet, but when they go to upgrade they'll realise, and they'll either have to buy a sedan, or a wagon Commodore, or something totally different that Ford don't produce.

I understand that FoA are a small player in the world car market, and that tooling up for every possible variant isn't possible, but if Ford are mainly interested in fleet buyers etc, even just for the Taxi industry, deleting the wagon was like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

mondeo has a bigger load area than commodore. it is a ford too. territory sales are through the roof as well, so those buyers are coming from somewhere.

commodore sales were about 2800 last month while the falcon was around 1500. if you believe everything you read, commodore sell about 1000 wagons a month and and about 30-40% of sales are v8's so that would mean the 6cyl sedan falcon actually outsold the 6cyl sedan commodore.

sorry, those figures don't add up to me. i think you'll find the novelty could be starting to wear off the wagon sales and come upgrade time many will just go back to sedan. wagon was just something different for a while.

disclaimer - the above views are my personal opinion only

[Kesh]

The problem with those photochops is that the rear lights should be based on the ute, not the sedan.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by TMC

There's a lot of love for the old Falcon wagon. You see heaps of them on the road. Taxis' especially.

I think getting rid of the wagon was more about dropping the long wheelbase configuration that the Fairlane had and less about loss of sales. So cost cutting rather than "we couldn't sell any". Having one wheelbase configuration in the Falcon will cut costs, but it will also cut sales volume.

I have to agree with the thought that those who would have bought the FG wagon have just gone to Holden nowadays.

Oh well.

More likely they bought an SUV instead. You only need to look at the number of SUV sales these days to know a hell of a lot of people have moved out of traditional large cars and into SUV's.

[TMC]

So a Taxi driver has a BF wagon that will need replacing after the required time which i think is 5 years in WA. Will he buy a Mondeo wagon or a Territory? I doubt it. Would not like to be in their shoes.

BTW I have nothing against the Mondeo or the Territory as I own a Territory. Never seen a Territory taxi over here. Plenty of Taxi BF wagons though.

[max_torq]

once you have had a wagon, you won't go back to a sedan, not if you have kids, or carry stuff for a business or use the wagon for any other lifestyle issue. A Wagon fits the current economic climate; instead of two cars a SUV and econo-car (or V8 cruiser), a wagon will replace them and save costs. A wagon does 99% of what an SUV does in reality. With modern wagons available in upscale specs, a wagon will do everything a sedan will do plus more; they make good sense. It's really the big sedan that has to justify itself these days.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by max_torq

once you have had a wagon, you won't go back to a sedan, not if you have kids, or carry stuff for a business or use the wagon for any other lifestyle issue. A Wagon fits the current economic climate; instead of two cars a SUV and econo-car (or V8 cruiser), a wagon will replace them and save costs. A wagon does 99% of what an SUV does in reality. With modern wagons available in upscale specs, a wagon will do everything a sedan will do plus more; they make good sense. It's really the big sedan that has to justify itself these days.

i had ef xr6 wagon, el futura wagon, ba futura wagon, bf2 xt wagon and now a fg xr6 sedan.

i have 2 kids and agree that wagons are very handy esp when it comes to holidays but as soon as my youngest (now 3) was old enough that we didn't need to lug a pram around, and we worked out that we could fit all our luggage for holidays in a sedan boot, we went back to sedan.

if there was a new wagon to upgrade to from bf2, i probably would have but i am not in position to buy new cars and i understand fords decision to stop making it, and since i will probably always own fords, i went back to sedan. the sedan boots are plenty big enough if you don't need to fit a pram in. we managed to fit luggage for 4 and a stroller in, plus esky and overnight stuff etc. did it comfortably.

i sure as hell didn't contemplate a holden just because they made a new wagon.

as an aside, there is still a handful of brand new 2010 plate falcon wagons on carsales. how come all those pining for a wagon aren't snapping them up?

[GK]

Originally Posted by prydey

i had ef xr6 wagon, el futura wagon, ba futura wagon, bf2 xt wagon and now a fg xr6 sedan.

i have 2 kids and agree that wagons are very handy esp when it comes to holidays but as soon as my youngest (now 3) was old enough that we didn't need to lug a pram around, and we worked out that we could fit all our luggage for holidays in a sedan boot, we went back to sedan.

Come on Prydey, where was the AU wagon? LOL!

We love our AU wagon for holidays. Simply awesome! Actually, my perfect car (for my current family needs) would be an AU3 Fairmont V8 wagon!

Is your sedan on LPG? Our AU sedan is and we therefore can't use it for holidays. If we towed a trailer we could, but even our two camping weekends this year, saw us hook it up to the wagon anyway.

Granted though, if we had the extra income to simply run a straight petrol vehicle, I'd probably go the XR6, G6 or G6E.

GK

[max_torq]

Originally Posted by prydey

as an aside, there is still a handful of brand new 2010 plate falcon wagons on carsales. how come all those pining for a wagon aren't snapping them up?

possibly because there is little improvement in a BF3 over a 2002 BA. If you want climate control, or leather seats, or a decent stereo, let alone sun roofs, rear DVD screens, reversing cameras and the like; well you can't get them in a BF3. If you are shrinking the fleet then it also makes sense to pack the features into the one car you have, luxuries and doodads are popular now.

[prydey]

GK - i didn't own my wagons in quite the order i have them listed. i had the EL first then came across the xr6 wagon which was going to be a keeper due to their rareness. the au never really offered anything to warrant upgrading it but when ba came along there were less and less reasons to continue to hang on to the ef. its rareness was the only thing left it had going for it.

my fg is petrol. it is almost as cheap to run on the highway as my bf2 egas wagon. it gets sub 8l/100km whereas the egas would be 13l/100km (12.5 if you tried hard). due to the price of lpg in the country areas, it seriously negated much of the benefit.

i'm just fortunate that i don't NEED a wagon, otherwise i would probably go a terri. actually still considering a terri at some point.

sorry to go off topic slightly.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by max_torq

possibly because there is little improvement in a BF3 over a 2002 BA. If you want climate control, or leather seats, or a decent stereo, let alone sun roofs, rear DVD screens, reversing cameras and the like; well you can't get them in a BF3. If you are shrinking the fleet then it also makes sense to pack the features into the one car you have, luxuries and doodads are popular now.

this argument has been done to death and not really what this thread is about. ford chose not to sell falcon wagon AND territory side by side. wagon lost out. most of the features you mention are available on either mondeo or territory and their sales have both increase in varying degrees since. if you park a territory next to a falcon wagon you will see it isn't really much bigger and it drives like a car. its sales figures tell a story too.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by prydey

this argument has been done to death and not really what this thread is about. ford chose not to sell falcon wagon AND territory side by side. wagon lost out. most of the features you mention are available on either mondeo or territory and their sales have both increase in varying degrees since. if you park a territory next to a falcon wagon you will see it isn't really much bigger and it drives like a car. its sales figures tell a story too.

I must admit, my Territory gives me a feeling I haven't had since I owned my V8 XB Fairmont wagon. I ask myself why I left the wagons behind. They were such great things to have.

But not all people will move to a Territory, as an SUV is lumped together with a 4X4 not a wagon in most peoples minds.

[bigsta]

I think they made a bit of an error not making a wagon as alot of fleet buyers either must buy a aussie car or one that meets emissions targets the mondeo and territory fail both of those.

I would think much as ford has snagged the SUV market holden now own the wagon market.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

as an aside, there is still a handful of brand new 2010 plate falcon wagons on carsales. how come all those pining for a wagon aren't snapping them up?

I have highlighted the clue.......

[sbutler]

OMG Im going blind reading multi pages about the dropping of the wagon.
IMO Ford in there usual rush dissisions **** themselfs, for a couple of reasons.
Holden were propped up by us the tax payer when it was clear they were in trouble.
Ford on the other hand was still turning a small profit.
So what they did, was drop a line of cars that they [wrongly] thought was a better buy than the wagon. The Territory. The Terrys sold well & took SOME wagon buyers away. So easy fix & save $$ drop the wagon. [Wrong move,] but it saved money & the govermant wasnt gonna prop up Ford like they did Holden.

Now as for the taxi V sportwagon debate.
IF Ford were to bring out a wagon they MUST seperate them completly. A base model taxi pac with LPG or whatever fuel they will be using.
Then a consumer/Joe public Sportwagon, minimum XR6 spec with XR6T as option. That way there would be no confusion it would be a completly different market segmant.
Abdula= taxi pac.
Joe public= Sportwagon.
If the smarties on here can desgin a very smart looking Wagon surely Ford can & market them accordingly.. My 2 bob worth.

[prydey]

obviously making and selling cars is a cakewalk

[FPV GTHO]

I think people need to face the reality that there are no longer enough buyers to justify the cars we all want. Ford certainly cant justify a wagon split to target 2 demographics. They cant justify a modern wagon to even target one of those demographics. Perhaps not many people realise this one though, but even Holdens Sportswagon wasnt approved on its potential local sales. Holden wouldve had a pretty solid idea that Ford were letting their wagon go and focusing on Territory, AND YET they still needed potential exports to get both VE ute and wagon over the line. AND THEY DONT EVEN HAVE THOSE EXPORT SALES.

[turboxf]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Do you want the 1300 Sportwagon buyers a month to put up their hand?

If there were that many sold we would see heaps of them i see 1 a month & no it isn't the same one