VFacts June 2010 - Page 6

naddis01 · 07-07-2010, 07:22 PM

VFacts June 2010

Can we start a recall thread somewhere else?

Joe5619 · 07-07-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Lets make this simple for you Joe:

-Anto stated that Toyota were having more than "a few recalls", implying they have quality issues like Ford.
-You accused Anto of implying that Toyota have recall after recall after recall and that he was incorrect.
-You then went on to state that only 2500 cars have been recalled in Australia for Toyota.
-You also stated that Toyota Australia is not impacted by global recalls

I demonstrated to you that Toyota have had recall after recall after recall (after recall - as they had 4 in 2010

). I also demonstrated that more than 2500 cars have been recalled as a result of the 3 recalls you conveniently overlooked. By listing global models, i also demonstrated recalls can affect us in Australia too.

Try writing your posts a little more clearly if this has been misunderstood.

The original post I quoted that started my comments were referring to recalls that involved death!! These recalls have nothing to do with any car sold in Australia!! There were also referring to recalls O/S & not Australian specific ones.. If that orginal postor had posted some of your links, I would not have commented becuase they would be valued!!

Road_Warrior · 07-07-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

VFacts June 2010

Can we start a recall thread somewhere else?

+1 take the recall bickering somewhere else.

**russellw** · 07-07-2010, 09:13 PM

The quarterly review of the Segmentation is now uploaded into the Tech Section.

Cheers
Russ

R-Design · 07-07-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

The quarterly review of the Segmentation is now uploaded into the Tech Section.

Cheers
Russ

Brilliant work. The lack of a V8 Falcon Ute must be causing headaches for Ford, I can't think of another reason why its sales have fallen behind Commodore this year.

Road_Warrior · 07-07-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Brilliant work. The lack of a V8 Falcon Ute must be causing headaches for Ford, I can't think of another reason why its sales have fallen behind Commodore this year.

The Falcon ute is not being marketed.

Joe5619 · 08-07-2010, 08:18 AM

It also goes to show that Ford is not really doing playing in the small section & that is where the big qty's are... When does the new Focus get here??

Also I30 has now sold more than Falcon YTD.. :(:( Coming on Falcon!!

ute83 · 08-07-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Most of the complaints on that website are on cars over 10 years old. Falcons are rep cars that do lots of kms generally, and they haev been the second / third biggest selling car in aus for a long time, therefore ofcourse there are going to be plenty of whingers!

BA & BF ten years old, i don't think so. Make all the excuses you want. Ford are not selling as many cars as we all would like. The reasons are numerous. Hopefully they will pull their socks up. Whether or not they are making better cars now we will see in a year or two down the road.

jpd80 · 08-07-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The Falcon ute is not being marketed.

Well, to be honest last month saw around 900 sales with no real discount specials to speak of....
God knows how much money Holden is flushing down the dunny by doing SV6 and International
models at $33,990 drive away. Only slightly less painful than earlier $29,990 drive away specials...

Road_Warrior · 08-07-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well, to be honest last month saw around 900 sales with no real discount specials to speak of....
God knows how much money Holden is flushing down the dunny by doing SV6 and International
models at $33,990 drive away. Only slightly less painful than earlier $29,990 drive away specials...

Holden has started a new SV6 commercial I see. Along the same lines of their other TV commercials. But my view is that Ford needs to start promoting the Falcon ute. You don't need to discount to promote, you just need to get the message out. The Falcoon ute has a deserved reputation as a workhorse, 900 units a month is not doing justice to that image nor the long-term viability of the vehicle. Then again, perhaps that is what Ford wants?

jpd80 · 08-07-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Holden has started a new SV6 commercial I see. Along the same lines of their other TV commercials. But my view is that Ford needs to start promoting the Falcon ute. You don't need to discount to promote, you just need to get the message out. The Falcoon ute has a deserved reputation as a workhorse, 900 units a month is not doing justice to that image nor the long-term viability of the vehicle. Then again, perhaps that is what Ford wants?

All Territory needed was the RWD special for $37,990 drive away for 1300 sales last month.
Imagine if they put the ZF in the RWD and got to advertise better fuel consumption and performance....

You're right about the Ute, a deft hand with a quasi special like R6 at a good price would see more shift...

Brazen · 08-07-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

All Territory needed was the RWD special for $37,990 drive away for 1300 sales last month.
Imagine if they put the ZF in the RWD and got to advertise better fuel consumption and performance....

You're right about the Ute, a deft hand with a quasi special like R6 at a good price would see more shift...

Bring back the RTV or at least a Outback type of ute it also has a positive effect on the other base model utes as its seen as a halo for Falcon's ruggedness and toughness, plus they are a great vehicle.

Add 3 seater to XR utes to get the private buyers on board.

Also increase the ground clearance on the base model utes they look like they will rip their front air dam off on the first speed hump they see. It just makes them look like a joke for real work and just puts tradies and others straight into 2wd Hiluxes, Tritons, BT-50s etc.

Road_Warrior · 08-07-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Add 3 seater to XR utes to get the private buyers on board.

What the hell for? If someone is forking out coin for an XR ute they sure as hell don't want a poxy bench seat ruining the experience

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

A V6 diesel Ute wouldn't go astray either.....

Damn right it wouldn't. 'specially in an RTV ute!

jpd80 · 08-07-2010, 05:57 PM

A V6 diesel Ute wouldn't go astray either.....

jpd80 · 08-07-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Damn right it wouldn't. 'specially in an RTV ute!

I just feel like Ford are looking in some wrong directions with products, I can understand
Ecoboost I-4 Falcon and it will have its place but I would see diesel Falcon as of more
importance in the market than even the XR8....

Road_Warrior · 08-07-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I just feel like Ford are looking in some wrong directions with products, I can understand
Ecoboost I-4 Falcon and it will have its place but I would see diesel Falcon as of more
importance in the market than even the XR8....

And this is why it is frustrating to see the ute selling like it is. It offers a lot, and should be selling more than it is.

It annoys me that the RTV was discontinued. RTV buyers were able to have a vehicle - the only one of its kind in Australia - that had some off road ability, a 1 tonne payload, and dedicated LPG for a 'green' fuel option. Not to mention the manufacturing complexity over and above the standard ute would have been negligible.

Very poor decision-making by Ford. Government fleets in WA bought them by the truckload.

irlewy86 · 09-07-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

And this is why it is frustrating to see the ute selling like it is. It offers a lot, and should be selling more than it is.

It annoys me that the RTV was discontinued. RTV buyers were able to have a vehicle - the only one of its kind in Australia - that had some off road ability, a 1 tonne payload, and dedicated LPG for a 'green' fuel option. Not to mention the manufacturing complexity over and above the standard ute would have been negligible.

Very poor decision-making by Ford. Government fleets in WA bought them by the truckload.

I remember pulling up for a fuel stop in Karratha. When I came out from the kiosk there were 4 more RTV's that had come in behind me, all used by smaller contractors. In an area where 90% of the vehicles were Toyota Gutlux/Prado/Cruiser, seeing that many non toyota's was not only incredible but almost a miracle worthy of a Vatican investigation.

I know the RTV isn't your traditional Halo car, but when Toyota's bullet-proof reputation (which here in Australia has even seemed to have shrugged of the global recall slump) was built on in part the Landcruiser and Hilux. Any vehicle eroding that strangle-hold is worthy of its place on the production line.

mik · 09-07-2010, 11:59 AM

my mate has an rtv work ute as his daily driver during the week, he loves it, he told me he may have used the diff lock only once or twice but the extra ground clearance and ability to handle the rough and tumble and dedicated lpg were great, plus it still drives like a car.

Road_Warrior · 09-07-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

plus it still drives like a car.

And that's one other benefit of the RTV I had forgotten; handling and ride quality like a car, not the kidney smashing antics of a Jap "pickup"

vztrt · 09-07-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

my mate has an rtv work ute as his daily driver during the week, he loves it, he told me he may have used the diff lock only once or twice but the extra ground clearance and ability to handle the rough and tumble and dedicated lpg were great, plus it still drives like a car.

Just having the ground clearence as an option would help boost the ute sales along.

Brazen · 09-07-2010, 01:53 PM

If they bring back the RTV it would be great if they brought out two levels to chase the fleet and private buyers. Have a base RTV with steel wheels, basic trim etc. And a also RTV 'R6' with alloys, foglights, sports interior trim, etc.

I think there is a potentially massive market out there for a sports offroad ute with a lot of young guys who maybe want to get out of their SS or XR6 utes and into something they can take camping, fishing, dirt bike riding etc..

But heck I would be happy with any RTV, in my opinion one of the best Falcon derivatives ever.

vztrt · 09-07-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

If they bring back the RTV it would be great if they brought out two levels to chase the fleet and private buyers. Have a base RTV with steel wheels, basic trim etc. And a also RTV 'R6' with alloys, foglights, sports interior trim, etc.

I think there is a potentially massive market out there for a sports offroad ute with a lot of young guys who maybe want to get out of their SS or XR6 utes and into something they can take camping, fishing, dirt bike riding etc..

But heck I would be happy with any RTV, in my opinion one of the best Falcon derivatives ever.

Unfortunatly it didn't have enough sales (I think it was about 7000 when it was around) to justify upgrading it let alone keeping it going. Would have been good keeping it as a BFIII at least.

irlewy86 · 09-07-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Unfortunatly it didn't have enough sales (I think it was about 7000 when it was around) to justify upgrading it let alone keeping it going. Would have been good keeping it as a BFIII at least.

More sales than XR8

Brazen · 09-07-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Unfortunatly it didn't have enough sales (I think it was about 7000 when it was around) to justify upgrading it let alone keeping it going. Would have been good keeping it as a BFIII at least.

I still think thats quite healthy for a particular variant. It was a lot more expensive over the base model too, so Im sure there is money to be made.

Also being a new name in the all-terrain scene, you need to establish a reputation. And people who had RTVs seem to be very satisfied with the vehicle and Im sure repeat sales and word-of-mouth sales could only improve. As the RTV goes on you would have seen the vehicle take on its own identity eventually - like what happened with the Subaru Outback based on the Liberty wagon.

This whole 'not justifying the expense' thing doesnt sit well with me. I honestly dont understand why a place as small as Ford Australia doesnt chase these fantastic gaps in the market. Whats the point of being small if you cant be flexible? Its the worst of both worlds.

When our company wanted to replace our national fleet of hiluxes for RTVs, we were simply told that a new Ranger 2wd variant has taken its place in Ford's lineup. What does the Ranger have that is unique? Nothing, hence we have continued with awful Hiluxes. Ford's marketers just dont seem to get it, they think all off-road utes are the same which is a cop-out as the Falcon RTV is 10 times the car the Ranger is.

I remember when the XG Falcon XR6 ute was released, it sold hardly anything a month now look at how many FG XR6 utes are sold.

Road_Warrior · 09-07-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

More sales than XR8

Oh snap!

Good one Ford, another opportunity wasted. Those 200-odd RTV sales per month were better off in your pocket than Toyota's, but instead of a 'can do' attitude, all we get is excuses.

Costs of the RTV-specific R&D and parts would well and truly been amortised over the life of the B series car, and lets face it, apart from a locking diff, raised suspension, body mouldings and semi-offroad wheels and tyres, there isn't a lot to them over and above the standard ute. The most expensive item in there is probably the diff.

And of course, apart from the new front suspension and steering system of the FG ute, the old parts would carry over.

Does anyone recall what the RTV's were retailing for?

naddis01 · 09-07-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Does anyone recall what the RTV's were retailing for?

Mid to high 30's I think at their peak. We got our Egas for about $30k when they we running out.

I honestly can't see how Ford can't make a business case for them.

Ok on another note, last month you might remember I bought you a breakdown of Falcon, Commodore and Camry sales. I will post them again further down to refresh your memory, but here are this months figures for Territory and Mazda 3. I think Brazen, you asked me last month for the Territory ones.

Figures are 2010 YTD

Mazda3 - 19,835 - YTD - June

Private - 16,898 <----Check this out
Business (small fleet) - 2,625
Business (large fleet) - 115
Government - 95
Not For Profit Organisation - 30
Other - 72

Ford Territory - 5,964 - YTD - June

Private - 1,768
Business (small fleet) - 2,302
Business (large fleet) - 735
Rental - 26
Government - 586
Not For Profit Organisation - 109
Other - 438

And last months figures again...

Ford Falcon - 13,349 - YTD - May

Private - 2,274
Business (small fleet) - 4,133
Business (large fleet) - 1,737
Rental - 2,744
Government - 1,528
Not For Profit Organisation - 414
Other - 519

Holden Commodore - 18,428 - YTD - May

Private - 4,972
Business (small fleet) - 6,114
Business (large fleet) - 1,397
Rental - 1,451
Government - 3,005
Not For Profit Organisation - 185
Other - 1,304

Toyota Camry - 6,825 - YTD - May

Private - 1,969
Business (small fleet) - 794
Business (large fleet) - 722
Rental - 664
Government - 1,424
Not For Profit Organisation - 868
Other - 384

Toyota Camry Hybrid - 2,273 - YTD - May (Over and above regular Camry figures and from the Feb launch)

Private - 400
Business (small fleet) - 485
Business (large fleet) - 209
Rental - 239
Government - 619
Not For Profit Organisation - 105
Other - 216

Brazen · 09-07-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Mid to high 30's I think at their peak. We got our Egas for about $30k when they we running out.

I honestly can't see how Ford can't make a business case for them.

Ok on another note, last month you might remember I bought you a breakdown of Falcon, Commodore and Camry sales. I will post them again further down to refresh your memory, but here are this months figures for Territory and Mazda 3. I think Brazen, you asked me last month for the Territory ones.

Figures are 2010 YTD

Mazda3 - 19,835 - YTD - June

Private - 16,898 <----Check this out
Business (small fleet) - 2,625
Business (large fleet) - 115
Government - 95
Not For Profit Organisation - 30
Other - 72

Ford Territory - 5,964 - YTD - June

Private - 1,768
Business (small fleet) - 2,302
Business (large fleet) - 735
Rental - 26
Government - 586
Not For Profit Organisation - 109
Other - 438

And last months figures again...

Ford Falcon - 13,349 - YTD - May

Private - 2,274
Business (small fleet) - 4,133
Business (large fleet) - 1,737
Rental - 2,744
Government - 1,528
Not For Profit Organisation - 414
Other - 519

Holden Commodore - 18,428 - YTD - May

Private - 4,972
Business (small fleet) - 6,114
Business (large fleet) - 1,397
Rental - 1,451
Government - 3,005
Not For Profit Organisation - 185
Other - 1,304

Toyota Camry - 6,825 - YTD - May

Private - 1,969
Business (small fleet) - 794
Business (large fleet) - 722
Rental - 664
Government - 1,424
Not For Profit Organisation - 868
Other - 384

Toyota Camry Hybrid - 2,273 - YTD - May (Over and above regular Camry figures and from the Feb launch)

Private - 400
Business (small fleet) - 485
Business (large fleet) - 209
Rental - 239
Government - 619
Not For Profit Organisation - 105
Other - 216

Thanks Naddis01! gee those private sales of the Mazda3 show how profitable that segment is, and was a big reason Focus should be made here. Cruze should hopefully bring in a bit of money for Holden if more and more mums and dads buy that size of car.

Look at the amount of government buyers for Hybrid Camry!

Road_Warrior · 09-07-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

I honestly can't see how Ford can't make a business case for them.

Perhaps Ford can't make a business case for them. Doesn't mean that someone else cant. Nudge nudge, wink wink.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Thanks Naddis01! gee those private sales of the Mazda3 show how profitable that segment is, and was a big reason Focus should be made here.

Old industry adage: the smaller the car, the smaller the profits. We have no way of knowing the profits on each and every vehicle sold. And I don't know whether FoA would be able to compete on economies of scale with the likes of Mazda. They could afford to gut Mazda3 prices for a bit because they have global sales concentrated out of one or two manufacturing plants; Ford Australia does not have this luxury.

Also those figures that Naddis posted torpedo the claim that Ford has been selling heaps of up-spec Falcons to private buyers.

vztrt · 09-07-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Figures are 2010 YTD

Mazda3 - 19,835 - YTD - June

Private - 16,898 <----Check this out
Business (small fleet) - 2,625
Business (large fleet) - 115
Government - 95
Not For Profit Organisation - 30
Other - 72

Mazda is and has been the No1 car for private sales. For the last few years at least.

Windsor220 · 09-07-2010, 09:14 PM

I thought the Falcon was quite good privately? Looks terrible going off those figures. Wouldnt even fill one months orders.