Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30-05-2010, 09:50 AM   #151
pottery beige
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,990
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Bird
Have you driven an LJ with a V8? They are bad handling pigs.
i use to own one.... ;) agree it wasn't as sweet as with the six, but for sheer outright pace i don't think the P4 would have seen which way it went....

Last edited by pottery beige; 30-05-2010 at 09:55 AM.
pottery beige is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 10:56 AM   #152
Ryan
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Posts: 3,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxb67
my reply was in regards to common sense not being used. it was suggested the mighty torana beat the phase 3 at bathurst. never has a series production torana beaten a series production phase 3 in the bathurst 500. in 1972 they were not strictly series production and the rain obviously helped the torana. that is relevant in this case because the thread is about the claim that the phase 3 was the fastest 4 door car ever, at the time of it's release. that has everything to do with outright power and someone else put the spin of the mighty torana beating it, which in the context of the this thread (and reality) meant nothing at all

as always there are people (who should be journalists, with their continually infactual information), that never let the truth get in the way of a good story. my reply was directed at some of those. the original question was not really worth asking in the first place
Fair enough mate. I guess I just took what you said the wrong way. Unlike Outback I actually have alot of respect for the GTHO, and quite honestly the only other Holdens I would consider over it are the 327 HK GTS Monaro, and LX A9X.
Ryan is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 01:31 PM   #153
302 XC
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,527
Default

gee seems a few ladies on here need to give up reading womans weekly
GTHO is a legend end of story
peoples opinions are all great and well
but its records are from near 40 years ago(well before some on here were born or even thought of)
yes there is faster better ect now , and i would hope so
its called advancements, isnt it
to build a car as such , and give a warranty is just astonishing, isnt it ???
im pritty sure some of the "yank muscle" cars of the era didnt offer warranties as such
didnt some come with no warranty at all ???
"sold as is, to suit drag,racing purposes only"was on some of the yank muscle
GTHO PHASE 3 ,
has been the benchmark , for others to acheive and its THE only car that is compared when others have built any muscle cars as such
didnt they even compare it to the best of the brocks around bathurst in the eighties ???
im sure it gave the best brockadores a touch up,still not bad comparing a car built in 1971 to a brand new 1980s brockadore
to compare it to anything nowadays ???
anyone wanna take their 750K pristine GTHO for a floggin session ????
i dont think so
302 XC is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 02:09 PM   #154
Ryan
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Posts: 3,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 XC
gee seems a few ladies on here need to give up reading womans weekly
GTHO is a legend end of story
peoples opinions are all great and well
but its records are from near 40 years ago(well before some on here were born or even thought of)
yes there is faster better ect now , and i would hope so
its called advancements, isnt it
to build a car as such , and give a warranty is just astonishing, isnt it ???
im pritty sure some of the "yank muscle" cars of the era didnt offer warranties as such
didnt some come with no warranty at all ???
"sold as is, to suit drag,racing purposes only"was on some of the yank muscle
GTHO PHASE 3 ,
has been the benchmark , for others to acheive and its THE only car that is compared when others have built any muscle cars as such
didnt they even compare it to the best of the brocks around bathurst in the eighties ???
im sure it gave the best brockadores a touch up,still not bad comparing a car built in 1971 to a brand new 1980s brockadore
to compare it to anything nowadays ???
anyone wanna take their 750K pristine GTHO for a floggin session ????
i dont think so
It was a car ahead of its time that's for. The fact that it could still take it to HDT Commodores from the 80s is testament to how much of a beast the HO really was.

In saying that they're probably one of the best aged cars to ever come off an Australian production line. They still look good now, and will still look good 40 years from now.

I admit I get a hint of jealously everytime I see an original HO that I wish Holden could've made something as legendary, but credit is given where it's due.
Ryan is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 02:14 PM   #155
Melz
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Melz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Some say.......
Posts: 3,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 XC
gee seems a few ladies on here need to give up reading womans weekly

And why is it some men can't come up with a constructive argument without refering to other men as women to try and 'belittle' one another?

Somehow it makes their argument less convincing...... wouldn't you agree???
Melz is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 02:49 PM   #156
DevilishChick60
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 45
Default

In a Shannon's car Insurance advert on tv they make reference to the Phase 3 being the "Fastest 4 door in 1971''

So I guess it is really was the fastest 4 door sedan in 1971...

I don't believe there would too many originals around now.. most I know of are replica's and are only weekend drives..
DevilishChick60 is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 02:52 PM   #157
Bad Bird
Watts a panhard.
 
Bad Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottery beige
i use to own one.... ;) agree it wasn't as sweet as with the six, but for sheer outright pace i don't think the P4 would have seen which way it went....
Fellow LJ former owners represent! Ahem.

I agree that in sheer pace the XU-2 would have been a monster. Pity that an LJ's rear suspension is worse than a leaf setup... Truly awful...
__________________
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else.
Bad Bird is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 03:10 PM   #158
302 XC
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,527
Default

melz,
good point
i do and many others would find it hard for people to come on here and bag out the LEGENDARY GTHO PHASE 3
(it is a fordforum )???
when clearly they really have no "heart" in the arguement
wouldnt u say ???
the PHASE 3 is a legend, wether some like it or not
wether it has "titles","race cred" or "watever"it is what it is,and will always be
THE LEGEND
its funny even nowadays performance cars are still compared to it
must be something goin for it
302 XC is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 03:23 PM   #159
Melz
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Melz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Some say.......
Posts: 3,830
Default

Hey I agree, the gtho is a legend... just making a point that don't degrade the argument by referring to guys as women. Seems to be happening all to much lately on here.
Melz is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 03:47 PM   #160
itchy brother
Windsor Warlords
 
itchy brother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In The Laboratory
Posts: 1,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lownloud
Jeezus! They must have made XU1's out of cast iron!
Well, they didnt make them out of plastic!!!
__________________
I know a lot about cars. I can look at a car's headlights and tell you exactly which way it's coming. Project Thread
itchy brother is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 03:51 PM   #161
Revolver
Big Member
Donating Member1
 
Revolver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Qld
Posts: 5,874
Default

Lets shut this down... OP hasnt said a word since posting, & its all off topic now.
__________________
The Scarlet Fairlane: 94 5.Slow Litre NC II Fairlane 488800kms & Climbing
Rollin' on genuine ELGT wheels.
K&N Filter
/////Alpine Sound.
EBGT Momo Woodgrain Steering Wheel
The Scarlet Fairlane Build Thread

Project "White Knight"
93 ED XR6
ROH Alloys
Momo wheel
Cruise
Sunroof
Premo Sound
Manual
HO Goodies
PWK Build Thread

1990 Yamaha FZR 250: 59000ks & climbing. New fairing, old tank, my angry mosquito in a coffee tin! 14.977 1/4mile.
Revolver is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 04:38 PM   #162
XDV800
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoo
Not quite, in 1974 Mercedes had the 6.9l 450SEL which topped out at just under 250kmh I think.
BMW 750i V12 was launched in 1987 which could do 155mph/250kmh, as was the 560SEL Mercedes in 1988.
In 1989 the E34 M5 first appeared and was limited to 250, who knows what she woulda reached...
The as you say the Lotus Omega and then the Vn Group A in 1991 which could muster 255kmh.
Forgot about the beemas and mercs. Yes I believe they would have taken over the crown sooner. I stand corrected. I swear I've read this several times in motoring mags over the years but i guess they are not as credible as they would have us think!
XDV800 is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 05:10 PM   #163
outback_ute
Ute Forum Moderator
Contributing Member
 
outback_ute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melb
Posts: 7,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elks
Well done Smoo..

The Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3 built from 1968 ~ 1971, is the only other contender for the title.

Fords claim that the HO was the Fastest 4 door sedan in the world was made in 1971 so why are people bring up F6's and Panamera's?

In the end there are 2 contenders. for 1971 4 door fast cars.

XY Phase 3 GTHO qtr mile 14.4 and top speed 144mph
300SEL 6.3 qtr mile 14.2 top speed 142mph.

but to my maths 144 is more than 142. Game over.

Mind you both are blindingly fast for the times. Funny you can buy a nice 6.3 for $30k..

My dream garage would have one of each..

T
There are a few other possible contenders, but not that quite match the GTHO.

Jag XJ12 - "about" 140mph (from the same company that said E-Types would do 150mph when launched). Also Maserati Quattroporte, De Tomaso Deauville, Aston Martin Lagonda (the model based on the DBS not the later Towns-designed box), and a Montiverdi, which all are listed at 140mph. Just going by memory here but I have made a list after looking into it a while back.

I have seen a website on a Mopar sedan with a factory-fitted Hemi , and their highway pursuit cars would have to be in the hunt also, but US cars were not aimed at top speed in those days. 140mph seems to be about the best they had also.

In the end the GTHO has a couple of mph over most contenders with the rev-limiter on, and would do about 150mph with it off. One car clocked ~152mph at Bathurst from memory which although Conrod straight is downhill it is also relatively short for a top speed run.

And then (going off-topic but hey I'm not the first!) in 1972 you have the GTHO Phase IV. Can't remember what speed that would do on the rev limiter, with its taller diff ratio, but 170mph is quoted for unrestricted speeds by several sources.
outback_ute is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 06:46 PM   #164
Dodge
i like to be stroked
 
Dodge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: between her legs
Posts: 1,926
Default

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html
have a look at this chart, im not sure which of these is a 4 door sedan
__________________
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun!"
Dodge is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 07:09 PM   #165
4Vman
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
4Vman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html
have a look at this chart, im not sure which of these is a 4 door sedan
No top speeds listed there so its irrelevant.....



__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars..
4Vman is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 07:57 PM   #166
XR Martin
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
XR Martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 9,056
Default

Most of the Yank big block sedans were auto with low compression/low performance engines. Im sure there was a few special order with 4speed and hipo engines but I dont think they could ever be considered production like the P3.

I doubt an XJ12 Series I wouldnt have gotten anywhere near 140mph in real life, like most Jaguars the top speed figure was exaggerated to the say the least.
__________________
2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170

2004 BA wagon RTV project.

1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red

1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired

1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project.
XR Martin is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:01 PM   #167
Rodp
Regular Schmuck
 
Rodp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html
have a look at this chart, im not sure which of these is a 4 door sedan
That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.
Rodp is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:05 PM   #168
4Vman
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
4Vman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodp
That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.
Cop out for what?... it is what it is, no claim has been made that isnt accurate..
Allot of green eyes around here....



__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars..
4Vman is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:11 PM   #169
MexicanBatman
Banned
 
MexicanBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bat Cave
Posts: 1,237
Default

woohooo my stock G6E is faster down the 1/4 than a dodge viper

yeah baby LOL

seriously though

how awesome are some of them cars from the 60's thats some real muscle

cant say they'd be a nice melb-syd cruiser but if your Vin Diesel and live your life one 1/4 mile at a time then sick!
MexicanBatman is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:16 PM   #170
Revolver
Big Member
Donating Member1
 
Revolver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Qld
Posts: 5,874
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewg6e
woohooo my stock G6E is faster down the 1/4 than a dodge viper

yeah baby LOL

seriously though

how awesome are some of them cars from the 60's thats some real muscle

cant say they'd be a nice melb-syd cruiser but if your Vin Diesel and live your life one 1/4 mile at a time then sick!
The G6E does the quater in 12.05secs or less???
__________________
The Scarlet Fairlane: 94 5.Slow Litre NC II Fairlane 488800kms & Climbing
Rollin' on genuine ELGT wheels.
K&N Filter
/////Alpine Sound.
EBGT Momo Woodgrain Steering Wheel
The Scarlet Fairlane Build Thread

Project "White Knight"
93 ED XR6
ROH Alloys
Momo wheel
Cruise
Sunroof
Premo Sound
Manual
HO Goodies
PWK Build Thread

1990 Yamaha FZR 250: 59000ks & climbing. New fairing, old tank, my angry mosquito in a coffee tin! 14.977 1/4mile.
Revolver is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:22 PM   #171
Elks
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Elks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melz
................ by referring to guys as women. ...........
Maybe it's a compliment...

there are some tough and smart women out there.
__________________
Oooh baby living in Miami....
Elks is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:26 PM   #172
MexicanBatman
Banned
 
MexicanBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bat Cave
Posts: 1,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Beast II
The G6E does the quater in 12.05secs or less???

read again!

not every dodge viper

8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
MexicanBatman is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:32 PM   #173
Elks
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Elks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodp
That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.
As is the case today. The fastest 4 door sedan in the world today is no match for any of the top ten 2 doors.

But 4 door, implies 4 seats (or more) a boot etc, extra tare weight, so it become a form of qualification, like class racing.

No point in comaring an FPV or even M5 vs a mid engine sport cars.
__________________
Oooh baby living in Miami....
Elks is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 08:35 PM   #174
gtxb67
moderator ford coupe club
 
gtxb67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodp
That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.
there is a good chance that the phase 3 would beat them around a closed circuit anyway
most of the high powered american coupes only went fast in a straight line
the ones that handled did not accelerate as well

the phase 3 did both fairly well - certainly for a family car of the time
gtxb67 is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 09:14 PM   #175
Rodp
Regular Schmuck
 
Rodp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Vman
Cop out for what?... it is what it is, no claim has been made that isnt accurate..
Allot of green eyes around here....
No green eyes here, I love the Phase 3 though I do prefer the XW, having owned one in GT. What was the worlds fastest 4 door prior to the P3? Did anyone even care at the time?
Rodp is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 09:17 PM   #176
Elks
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Elks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxb67
there is a good chance that the phase 3 would beat them around a closed circuit anyway
most of the high powered american coupes only went fast in a straight line
the ones that handled did not accelerate as well

the phase 3 did both fairly well - certainly for a family car of the time

Very true,

Most of the Euro stuff at the time couldn't run a 14 sec quarter mile, and the quick US stuff, Fairlane Thunderbolts, Buick GSX, Hemi Cuda, Boss 429 stang, steered like cows..

And RODP, I'm with you, for collector value a phase 2 doesnt work as well, but it did run the qtr mile faster, and that ragged idle. MMM I love that...
__________________
Oooh baby living in Miami....
Elks is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 09:20 PM   #177
Rodp
Regular Schmuck
 
Rodp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elks
As is the case today. The fastest 4 door sedan in the world today is no match for any of the top ten 2 doors.

But 4 door, implies 4 seats (or more) a boot etc, extra tare weight, so it become a form of qualification, like class racing.
But that illustrates my point perfectly. Back in that era, it was just the style to have a 2 door sedan that had just as much back seat area and just as big a boot (more in several cases) as the Falcons.

Beyond the muscle car era, there was a clear difference between the 2 door and 4 door vehicles being designed. But in 1971, there wasn't.
Rodp is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 09:27 PM   #178
MexicanBatman
Banned
 
MexicanBatman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bat Cave
Posts: 1,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodp
No green eyes here, I love the Phase 3 though I do prefer the XW, having owned one in GT. What was the worlds fastest 4 door prior to the P3? Did anyone even care at the time?

that mercedes 6.3L 140+mph 2ton automatic air ps fuel injection power steer air

luxury it was
MexicanBatman is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 09:27 PM   #179
XR Martin
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
XR Martin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 9,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodp
No green eyes here, I love the Phase 3 though I do prefer the XW, having owned one in GT. What was the worlds fastest 4 door prior to the P3? Did anyone even care at the time?
Mk II Jag I think
__________________
2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170

2004 BA wagon RTV project.

1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red

1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired

1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project.
XR Martin is offline  
Old 30-05-2010, 09:27 PM   #180
Rodp
Regular Schmuck
 
Rodp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxb67
there is a good chance that the phase 3 would beat them around a closed circuit anyway
most of the high powered american coupes only went fast in a straight line
the ones that handled did not accelerate as well

the phase 3 did both fairly well - certainly for a family car of the time
That's probably a given. I guess our advantage stemmed from our premier race in that it forced Ford and Holden to build a car that can wallop up and down the straight as well as handle some pretty perilous corners ontop of the mountain.
Rodp is offline  
Closed Thread


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 04:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL