Falcon EcoBoost: The Fuel Efficiency Australians Need with the Performance They Want

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But combined with the government rebate Ford say you will pay for the addition LPi price within 6 months. Or was it 12, can't remember.

Compared with petrol I-6

LPi is way infront either way, unless you plan on keeping it for less than a year.

But its invisible to most of the population as Ford thinks LPi will sell itself, and advertise its availability itself too.

Ecoboost looks like the happy medium, no up front cost and roughly half of the cost benefit of LPG.
The great advantage is that it still uses petrol, is a four cylinder and has a low CO2 rating.

Given the low acceptance of new LPG vehicles with the public, Ecoboost looks to be
the perfect selection as an efficient petrol engine that changes the image of Falcon.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by falconnut

Surely there would be aftermarket solutions

Not in the short term, probably not ever.

The Ecoboost engine is Direct Injection, and as of yet, there are no Direct Injection LPG systems on the aftermarket, let alone out of the factory.

[flappist]

And the LPG enthusiasts arc up yet again.

One simple question, if LPG is so good why is is such an abject failure in sales outside of taxis and a few city fleets. Most LPG users are subsidised conversions on old cheap second hand cars?

LPG makes up less than 1% of sales at 4 of the closest Ford dealers to me (Hervey Bay, Maryborough, Murgon & Kingaroy), I have no figures on any of the sunny coast or northern dealers.
Interestingly the DPs of those dealerships have difficulty explaining this to the Melbourne based Ford executives.

LPG may be available to 90% of Australians in their cities but Falcon is a large long distance car not a round-town bubblemobile so if you intend to travel further than a couple of hundred km from your home or off the main highways it is a good idea to make sure you will not get stranded.

In the last 10 years there have been a few surprises in Falcon sales.

The XR6 dominating the low end.
The G6ET selling like hot cakes despite lacklustre Ghia V8 sales.
The XR6T outselling XR8 by a great margin.

I suspect the ecoboost will be another surprise and sell exceptionally well becoming at least the second highest selling engine in the falcon range.

[Terry Turbo]

A 4 cylinder Falcon........ instead of a diesel.

Geoff Polites must be rolling in his grave.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Terry Turbo

A 4 cylinder Falcon........ instead of a diesel.

Geoff Polites must be rolling in his grave.

I don't know about that, diesel was a shoe in for Territory as half of all SUV's are diesel.

With passenger cars its a totally different story, and I don't think GP ever said anything about putting a diesel in Falcon. I'm sure he would have seen the sense in going Ecoboost for Falcon, especially opening up sales to 4 cylinder only fleets.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mik

some people will never buy LPG even if it was a tenth the price,
because they think it every second lpg vehicle will explode and that they are so much safer in their one star sardine can petrol engined economy car that will probably fold up at the mere sight of full size car or a builder with a wheel barrow !!!
and rego is going up in mexico i believe very soon, probably our contribution to the carbon tax, so one would expect the little ecoboost to be not hit as hard as the bigger capacity engines, more choices has to be a good thing .

Rego in Vic is not related to the number of cylinders a car has, everybody pays the same wether its a 4 cylinder or a V12.

[Terry Turbo]

Try towing 2300kg with a 4 cylinder.

Oh and a diesel pasenger car.... the Europeans might catch on to that one.

At least the diesel would allow Australia's family car to tow a load, with Mum, Dad and 3 kids and their luggage, WITH reasonable fuel economy.

How long before a highly strung 4 self destructs in this scenario?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by flappist

And the LPG enthusiasts arc up yet again.

One simple question, if LPG is so good why is is such an abject failure in sales outside of taxis and a few city fleets. Most LPG users are subsidised conversions on old cheap second hand cars?

LPG makes up less than 1% of sales at 4 of the closest Ford dealers to me (Hervey Bay, Maryborough, Murgon & Kingaroy), I have no figures on any of the sunny coast or northern dealers.
Interestingly the DPs of those dealerships have difficulty explaining this to the Melbourne based Ford executives.

LPG may be available to 90% of Australians in their cities but Falcon is a large long distance car not a round-town bubblemobile so if you intend to travel further than a couple of hundred km from your home or off the main highways it is a good idea to make sure you will not get stranded.

Exacty right...people in the cities think "a big drive" is 50km...myself and everyone else in town drive a 40km round trip to go to the supermarket. If we want to go to a better selection of shops, it's a 200km trip in one direction, 400km round trip in the other, and plenty of people out here see that as no big thing. It's hard to get it through to people sometimes that in Queensland for example there's life outside the south east corner of the state...

In the last 10 years there have been a few surprises in Falcon sales.

The XR6 dominating the low end.
The G6ET selling like hot cakes despite lacklustre Ghia V8 sales.
The XR6T outselling XR8 by a great margin.

I suspect the ecoboost will be another surprise and sell exceptionally well becoming at least the second highest selling engine in the falcon range.

The XR6 sales "surprise" is easy...most dealers actively try and talk you out of optioning up a standard Falcon and instead push you towards an XR6...more bang for your buck, better styling and more standard stuff in them usually.

Also, cylinder count has become increasingly irrelevant for people today, and too many people here are hung up on it as well. As I said in another post, on this forum not long back people were laughing at the new Toyota 86 NA four cylinder or "only" having 149kw, when that's about the same power as the mighty 351 Cleveland was producing at the end of it's life in the early eighties...

Towing? Once again that old chestnut rears it's ugly head...when was the last time you saw a 2300kg horse float or huge boat hanging off the back of a Falcon or Commodore? People buy four wheel drives to do that. And if they plan on doing so with a Falcon, then they're hardly going to buy a 4 cylinder version are they? And families? They already pile loads like that into Camrys, Magnas, and big Mazdas with perfect reliability...why not let them have a chance to buy a Falcon with the same running costs?

[FalconXV]

I think this is great. Ford has returned serve with a large car that drinks like a small or medium one. Not only that, it seems that it has better chassis balance and one (to me) big advantage over Accord Euro, i45, mazda 6 et al : REAR WHEEL DRIVE. You know, like BMW and Mercedes have. And an expensive German gearbox. Sometimes I doubt it but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Ford have an opportunity to proliferate and target these buyers from other segments, which is the best hope yet. I see the wisdom of their strategy now.
But if they don't advertise the living crap out of it, like their lives depend on it, then all this clever engineering is in vain.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Terry Turbo

Try towing 2300kg with a 4 cylinder.

Oh and a diesel pasenger car.... the Europeans might catch on to that one.

At least the diesel would allow Australia's family car to tow a load, with Mum, Dad and 3 kids and their luggage, WITH reasonable fuel economy.

How long before a highly strung 4 self destructs in this scenario?

you are getting hung up on cylinder count and not looking at the numbers. would you tow 2300kg with a BA? whats the difference?? 179kw v 182kw! 353nm @ 2000rpm v 390nm @ 3250rpm.

ecoboost is very similar on paper to a diesel except with a bit more power. it can hardly be called 'highly strung'.

15yrs ago, these were v8 figures.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Terry Turbo

Try towing 2300kg with a 4 cylinder.

Oh and a diesel pasenger car.... the Europeans might catch on to that one.

At least the diesel would allow Australia's family car to tow a load, with Mum, Dad and 3 kids and their luggage, WITH reasonable fuel economy.

How long before a highly strung 4 self destructs in this scenario?

Geez lucky the 0.000001% of people who actually want to do that in a standard car rather than a 4WD can still buy the I6.

I towed a trailer with 3 motorbikes, a portable workshop and 5 people on board to MX tracks all over QLD and NSW in a 1.5 litre 1982 Laser and drove 150,000km in it before it was killed by an idiot in a mini moke. It never missed a beat.

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by prydey

you are getting hung up on cylinder count and not looking at the numbers. would you tow 2300kg with a BA? whats the difference?? 179kw v 182kw! 353nm @ 2000rpm v 390nm @ 3250rpm.

ecoboost is very similar on paper to a diesel except with a bit more power. it can hardly be called 'highly strung'.

15yrs ago, these were v8 figures.

My old XB 302 was supposed to be 179kw, and I wouldn't have hesitated to tow something in that.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by flappist

LPG may be available to 90% of Australians in their cities but Falcon is a large long distance car not a round-town bubblemobile so if you intend to travel further than a couple of hundred km from your home or off the main highways it is a good idea to make sure you will not get stranded.

Perth to Carnarvon and back on LPG, availability no problem.

Perth to Albany/Denmark and back on LPG, availability no problem.

Perth to Lake Grace and back via Narrogin on LPG, availability no problem.

All of these trips we've done each year sometimes more than once (staring down the barrel of 3 Carnarvon trips this year) and go through some pretty remote areas, and LPG availability along the way has never been an issue.

[Terry Turbo]

Geez lucky the 0.000001% of people who actually want to do that in a standard car rather than a 4WD can still buy the I6.

I towed a trailer with 3 motorbikes, a portable workshop and 5 people on board to MX tracks all over QLD and NSW in a 1.5 litre 1982 Laser and drove 150,000km in it before it was killed by an idiot in a mini moke. It never missed a beat

Hmmm, then all those Falcons and Commodores I saw outnumbering the 4WDs down at the caravan park in Anglesea a few weeks ago must have been mirages. Not everyone with a caravan wants, can afford or needs a 4WD. This was one of the reasons why Ford kept the leaf spring rear end in the utes and wagons for so long: load carrying and Towing

I also had a 1985 Ford Laser Ghia. It must have been a very slow 150,000kms.

Listen, I hope the 4 cylinder Falcon works and I have to put up with you all hearing me choking on my posts.

I love the Falcon and have now had 8 of them over the years from a 302V8 XB, XD, XF, EB and EF to my BF GT and an EB daily driver. I will never sell my GT. I have also had 2 x Lasers, a Telstar, a Cortina, an Escort RS2000 and a Territory Turbo.

BUT, IMHO, its another Ford ***** UP, and another nail in the coffin of Australia's Ford.

Keep the I6 and the I6T and it appears, I must be the only one in the country that thinks the the Diesel is a no brainer

[Romulus]

It's a shame there's no fuel economy comparison data available between the EB4 and the TDCi Territory engine for the Falcon. Those comparing EB4 to Territory diesel need to remind themselves of the weight difference between the two. 5-6l/100km out of a diesel powered full sized passenger car is no big deal this day and age.

As mentioned by Terry Turbo, the Europeans might be on to something with diesel engines. I read somewhere Lemans 24hr allow a few diesel powered vehicles. How do they rate compared to the petrol cars?

Ford under estimate demand for a diesel Falcon. Territory should have given them some insight.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

It's a shame there's no comparison data available between the EB4 and the TDCi Territory engine for the Falcon. Those comparing EB4 to Territory diesel need to remind themselves of the weight difference between the two.

As mentioned by Terry Turbo, the Europeans might be on to something with diesel engines. I read somewhere Lemans 24hr allow a few diesel powered vehicles. How do they rate compared to the petrol cars?

Ford under estimate demand for a diesel Falcon. Territory should have given them some insight.

Not to mention a TDi Falcon ute!

[geckoGT]

I agree the TD is a no brainer but do not see that ecoboost is a flawed concept on the basis of towing, most australian family car owners do not tow anything larger than a small box trailer and if they do, the I6 is there.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

I
As mentioned by Terry Turbo, the Europeans might be on to something with diesel engines. I read somewhere Lemans 24hr allow a few diesel powered vehicles. How do they rate compared to the petrol cars?

They win the race.

[Romulus]

I'm not knocking the EB4, I'm sure it will have appeal. But seeing investment money has already been spent on Territory diesel I wouldn't have thought it would have been a great expense to put the Terry TDCi engine in the Falcon.

Rather than competing with Commodore's SIDIDI engine Ford could have gone a different direction. Anyhow, it's a moot point as diesel Falcon is not available.

Let's see how the uptake of EB4 goes.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Terry Turbo

I also had a 1985 Ford Laser Ghia. It must have been a very slow 150,000kms.

I did Melbourne to Maryborough (QLD) in 17 hours and Maryborough to Riverstone (Sydney) in 11 hours 34 minutes both including petrol stops.

I would be interested in seeing if you could do that in your shiny Cobra GT......

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not to mention a TDi Falcon ute!

Spot on. You'd likely find similar sales split diesel to petrol as now seen with the Territory.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

I'm not knocking the EB4, I'm sure it will have appeal. But seeing investment money has already been spent on Territory diesel I wouldn't have thought it would have been a great expense to put the Terry TDCi engine in the Falcon.

Rather than competing with Commodore's SIDIDI engine Ford could have gone a different direction. Anyhow, it's a moot point as diesel Falcon is not available.

Let's see how the uptake of EB4 goes.

I have to admit, I was surprised that EB4 was decided on rather than TDCi. Perhaps it was just a case that EB4 made a better business case.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I have to admit, I was surprised that EB4 was decided on rather than TDCi. Perhaps it was just a case that EB4 made a better business case.

The 4cyl govco fleet policy might have a bit to do with it.

And of course there is no reason why a TDCi could not appear later. It is difficult to win at poker if you show all your cards.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

The 4cyl govco fleet policy might have a bit to do with it.

And of course there is no reason why a TDCi could not appear later. It is difficult to win at poker if you show all your cards.

Very true, although much of the government vehicle policy is now aimed at CO2 emmisions and I think TDCi would probably outperform EB4 in this respect.

Personally I think TDCi may still be in the future, depending on its acceptance in territory.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not to mention a TDi Falcon ute!

the days of falcon being jack of all trades are gone. want a diesel ute? buy a ranger. want a diesel family car? buy a territory.

i would say since cutting back on many of the models in falcon line up, other models in fords line up have increased in sales.

[ivorya]

But guys, your missing the pt here...

The EB4 is basically a TDi Engine.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Terry Turbo

Try towing 2300kg with a 4 cylinder.

Oh and a diesel pasenger car.... the Europeans might catch on to that one.

At least the diesel would allow Australia's family car to tow a load, with Mum, Dad and 3 kids and their luggage, WITH reasonable fuel economy.

How long before a highly strung 4 self destructs in this scenario?

Take a look at FGs on the road and count the number of tow bars attached, by my count sweet FA.
That's what RWD Territory is for and why Ford sells it for $39,990 drive away with only a slight economy disadvantage.

The days of people insisting that a Falcon sedan should carry 12 people and tow 5 tonnes are over...

[Nikked]

This just goes in circles, Ford should have done this...LPG that... 4cly can't tow...

Poeple need to actually look at the information about before make stupid assumptions and half-baked ideas...

Some people can't see 2ft in front of their ignorance.

[Rodge]

I enjoyed the analysis posted earlier comparing the running costs of the various options, I6, EB4 and Lpi. Its great that people now have the EB4 option and i'm looking forward to reading some more reviews on how it performs. Fair enough fuel consumption in the EB4 appears to be affected materially by weight but there a lot of poeple including me that drive in their cars either by themselves or just with their partner and hardly any that tow.

If you are looking at owning one of these cars for say five years, in my opinion it makes better sense to base your comapritive price analysis on what you forecast the average price of fuel to be over that same future period. Obviouisly this involves crystal ball gazing, but that's exactly how the big fleets make their decisions, forecasting based on historical price trends and all other economic information.

From where I sit there's little doubt that gradually over time petrol will continue to go up whereas Australia has decades of proven locally sourced LPG which is supplied on long term price contracts isn't it ?

OMG if only Kiwi's could buy LPG at 70 cents a litre

[MickyB]

What is also interesting is that I distinctively recall the head of Mercedes Benz commenting on how he saw small, forced inductions engines overtaking turbo diesels in the not too distant future.

If you look at the E250 CGI with the 1.8 litre turbo, it produces 150kw and 310nm. It weighs 1650kg, does 0-100 in 7.7 seconds and uses 7.2 litres per 100km. So it's slower than the Falcon by around half a second to 100 and uses around 11% less fuel, although I'm unsure if it uses 98 or 95 octane. I haven't read through this whole thread, but I assume the ecoboost Falcon uses 95? One the key points in most reviews of the MB is that they are mightily impressed with the engine, which gives V6 levels of performance from only 1.8 litres.
I'm not saying that the EB4 Falcon will match the MB in terms of overall refinement and quality, but you'd have to expect that it will win many plaudits for it's drive train once it's released and reviewed. I think we have to wait and see before we write it off completely, I like the idea of picking up an ex-fleet EB4 XT for low 20's in 12-18 months time.