Difference between S/C 8 and Turbo Barra

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by arronm

That GTF may have had a raised rev limit. Watch the Video at 1.39. Revs post 7k. Remember it's a 8k tacho.

Just because a car has a theoretical speed doesn't mean it can reach it.

I reckon 297 was all a GTF has. That is 187mph.

The GT-F was stock.

All they did was remove the speed limiter and install a c.f. tail shaft for safety reasons..

Pointless exercise if it was tuned. Standard rev limit of 6250.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

The GT-F was stock.

All they did was remove the speed limiter and install a c.f. tail shaft for safety reasons..

Pointless exercise if it was tuned. Standard rev limit of 6250.

If you watch the footage closely, you'll see the car is sitting around 6200rpm at 284kph so it's possible they raised the rev limiter to 6500rpm...

[arronm]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

The GT-F was stock.

All they did was remove the speed limiter and install a c.f. tail shaft for safety reasons..

Pointless exercise if it was tuned. Standard rev limit of 6250.

That's what they said..

But I think it had a few tweeks

Kph/1000rpm in 5th is 46.1. You do the maths.....

[Bent8]

Having driven both turbo 6 and blown V8, my preference is for the latter but... we should remember that both models were engineered to be 'competitive' in their own ways, otherwise they wouldn't sell.

That being said, and if I'm not mistaken, the GT always outsold the F6

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by arronm

Kph/1000rpm in 5th is 46.1. You do the maths.....

275/30/19 tyres, 3.73 ratio, 0.71 5th gear @ 297kph equals 6443rpm

[arronm]

Exactly , a few porky pies.....

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by adz137

Haha what are you smoking, i'll have some please. Pretty much every review i've read has given the sprint 6 a better score.

This is from motor magazine who gave the xr8 sprint 3.5 and the xr6 sprint 4.0.

The XR6 Sprint pips the XR8 not just by one token newton metre, but also by price – and it seems performance, the six-pot Falcon as fast in a straight line but the sweeter handler.

It’s an awkward truth we’ll look to confirm in a future issue of the mag before the Falcons are gone forever, but while both Sprints will go down as greats, the best performance Falcon ever could be a six.

What issue is that?
From issue November 2016
Lap times of Winton
Xr8 1:38.4
Xr6 1:40.7
Shows a graph of speeds around he circuit and the xr8 beats it pretty much everywhere.
I’m pretty sure ABDC came to the same conclusion. 6 doesn’t go as hard, handle as well or sound as good. In short why bother.

[arronm]

2 seconds is heaps. But these are stock cars

We are all enthusiasts. Who keeps their car stock???

[Geeseman]

And
https://www.themotorreport.com.au/ca...own-85135.html

Chucking the holden in the mix

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by arronm

2 seconds is heaps. But these are stock cars

We are all enthusiasts. Who keeps their car stock???

True dat. The problem with the 6 is that the more power you put into it the more uncontrollable it gets. The 8 is completely the oppposite.
I remember motor hot tuners are few years back when BTA motorsports turned up with a 400rwkw 6 and it came dead last in the circuit racing even against modded front wheel drive cars.
Like I said it’s all good fun and stupid but not a fast car by any means.

Ford’s hope now lies wth the 2018 mustang and the focus rs (which I own after selling my gts). Mustang 2018 looks awesome. Power, sound and handling.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by arronm

2 seconds is heaps. But these are stock cars

We are all enthusiasts. Who keeps their car stock???

There are countless enthusiasts that do keep their performance purchasers as from the showroom floor.

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by Bent8

275/30/19 tyres, 3.73 ratio, 0.71 5th gear @ 297kph equals 6443rpm

Street tyre's can grow 2" at 180mph (more if on cross plys/slicks) so add that to the rolling diameter at that speed.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by FG50T

Street tyre's can grow 2" at 180mph (more if on cross plys/slicks) so add that to the rolling diameter at that speed.

Don't think the effect is that great... maybe a few mm's at best.

The footage actually backs up the math aswell.

[sixman]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

True dat. The problem with the 6 is that the more power you put into it the more uncontrollable it gets. The 8 is completely the oppposite.
I remember motor hot tuners are few years back when BTA motorsports turned up with a 400rwkw 6 and it came dead last in the circuit racing even against modded front wheel drive cars.
Like I said it’s all good fun and stupid but not a fast car by any means.

Ford’s hope now lies wth the 2018 mustang and the focus rs (which I own after selling my gts). Mustang 2018 looks awesome. Power, sound and handling.

Yes, the 2018 Mustang does look awesome. Wish it was a 5 seater. Spent some time in a 2016 supercharged mustang - that thing has presence!
I also have a focus rs, it's a great little car, but kept the falcon for sentimental reasons... The 2 are a nice contrast.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Don't think the effect is that great... maybe a few mm's at best.

The footage actually backs up the math aswell.

Not sure why the arguments. They said it was stock, why would they raise the rev limit? It would make what was a very expensive exercise worthless.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Not sure why the arguments. They said it was stock, why would they raise the rev limit? It would make what was a very expensive exercise worthless.

Just pointing out what I'm seeing...

I know that a ZF equipped GT-F would have cracked 300 before hitting the redline in 5th gear so in my opinion, raising the rev limiter doesn't really give the car an advantage especially when they are making peak power around 6000rpm

[arronm]

52kph/1000. 5th auto. I don't reckon it would have went any faster. I think that car was at the limit.

Doesn't matter any rate. It didn't make 300

[adz137]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

What issue is that?
From issue November 2016
Lap times of Winton
Xr8 1:38.4
Xr6 1:40.7
Shows a graph of speeds around he circuit and the xr8 beats it pretty much everywhere.
I’m pretty sure ABDC came to the same conclusion. 6 doesn’t go as hard, handle as well or sound as good. In short why bother.

Here you go

https://www.motormag.com.au/reviews/...-sprint-review

Here is also another review where they compare the xr6 sprint to the xr8 sprint their conclusion is exactly the same as Motor magazine:

Despite a personal hand-on-heart subscription to the romance of the supercharged V8 manual, the XR6 Sprint is the greater achievement. It’s the faster tool in a straight line and around corners in non-expert hands and the engine deserves to be mentioned in the same echelon as the brilliant twin-turbo six of the current BMW M3 and M4.

And folks, this ultimate incarnation of the Falcon straight six is our engine from the sump upwards. Go Australia.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-rev...ve-video-40249

I've owned in the past a fg xr6 turbo, fgx g6e turbo and a fgx xr8 and honestly both the Barra and SC8 are amazing and we are very lucky to have them in our Ford cars. For me personally I found the turbo's more fun to drive and overall to be better daily drivers especially the G6E turbo.

Having said that if i had the money and i was in the market for another Ford it would be almost impossible to choose between the xr6 and xr8 sprint as they are both incredible cars.

[Maka]

Both are outstanding imo, just pick what you like & go mad modding or not.

The question i would like to ask is in those speed runs are those Falcons running the standard oem gearboxes, diffs & ratios?

cheers, Maka

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

What issue is that?
From issue November 2016
Lap times of Winton
Xr8 1:38.4
Xr6 1:40.7
Shows a graph of speeds around he circuit and the xr8 beats it pretty much everywhere.
I’m pretty sure ABDC came to the same conclusion.......

I drove a heavily worked F6 FG Mk 2 that was on sale at a dealer and about 1 year old at the time, with 15,000 km on it, and came to the conclusion it would be a handful on corners and handling, and getting power down on corners.

After driving FGX XR8s with the linear power I rolled for an FGX XR8 as I felt it would be better in handling real wold corners and trackwork- power down on corners with no TC.

And that test by Motor testing the 6 and 8 round Winton confirmed my seat of the pants perception that the 8 is a better and faster package, especially in manual, around a track.

Originally Posted by Geeseman

6 doesn’t go as hard, handle as well or sound as good. In short why bother.

This is where I think you are a bit harsh.

That worked F6 I drove sounded amazing from the sounds in the engine bay, on boost and off throttle, incredible sounds with blow off, and on boost with traction at 90 kmph and up the acceleration was harder than the FGX XR8s, just the period of power being delivered in bloom bulge is more narrow than the blown 8s which have a much broader period of power blooming. But in that period of on boost power bloom- the 6 went harder than a blown 8.

And yes- I agree with the comment that it is silly- but really GOOD silly.

I personally would love to have a worked blown F6, a Blown 8 and a Ford RS.

All great cars with fantastic personalities. They will all be desired in 25 years when we are driving electric automated cars.

[sixman]

Throttle modulation is a weakness in the Barra, its not linear and more an all boost on or off. Worse in a high powered Barra - passengers complain of whiplash....
But in a straight line that turbo rush can not be replicated.

[arronm]

Turbo and tune can be modified to soften the power delivery

[ratter]

we have done a couple of track cars with a ramped boost curve and it makes the power delivery more linear like a V8

[sixman]

Originally Posted by ratter

we have done a couple of track cars with a ramped boost curve and it makes the power delivery more linear like a V8

Coming on power is not the issue, what happens when they go from 100% to 70% throttle application? How do you maintain linear boost in that situation in a car with 20+ psi?
That is where a na or supercharged engine has much better power control.

[arronm]

Of all the tracks I have been on that is rare to go from flat out to 2/3 throttle. Its flat out , then off the throttle and on the brakes, then feed it in again till 100% throttle.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Having driven both turbo 6 and blown V8, my preference is for the latter but... we should remember that both models were engineered to be 'competitive' in their own ways, otherwise they wouldn't sell.

That being said, and if I'm not mistaken, the GT always outsold the F6

Yes , agree , that's the beauty of it . Two outstanding affordable yet quite different performers but under the Blue Oval badge. Those choosing one or the other choose them for what suits them best.

Then of course prior to local manufacturing finishing in late 2016, for those choosing the Mustang over one of the last Falcons, they could be ordered in two distinct engine choices.

Same thing really , V8 or Turbo albeit a four cylinder one and a n/a V8 .

[arronm]

Imagine a Barra mustang>>>>

[sly_ba]

Originally Posted by arronm

Imagine a Barra mustang>>>>

You love the Barra.... we get it....

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by sly_ba

You love the Barra.... we get it....

We worship the Barra.... The Barra is GOD....

[JC]

Originally Posted by arronm

Imagine a Barra mustang>>>>

They tried that (well, 6 cylinder mustangs at any rate).
The V8 Mustang was and is the cult car - the 6 is its poor cousin. Much like Falcon.