Customers to decide Falcon ute future

[JETME]

Bring back the Panel van..lol and im serious

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by JETME

Bring back the Panel van..lol and im serious

I think if marketed appropriately, it may have potential...

Personally, I think the best thing Ford can do right now is seriously assess their marketing and advertising campaigns, and by marketing I mean their retailer market as well. If the perception out there is that the Ford dealerships are an issue with regard to getting people into their cars, they need to reassess it...and soon.

Granted there are some fantastic dealerships out there, but there are also some incredibly shoddy ones, all bearing the blue oval and seen as a 'representative' of the company.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think the chances of the plant staying open are much stronger than the Falcon continuing post-2016.

Correct, the Australian factory may not be building what the Australian designers and engineers are working on. The factory will be building the cars that sell the most for that region, whereas I think the design team will be working in part on Mustangs, Lincolns, T6 variants and replacements.

[russellw]

I'm going to add my ten cents worth to this debate.

It isn't that long ago that Falcon Ute was outperforming the Holden equivalent (just over 12 months in fact) but one of the factors that undeprinned that success was the e-gas option which represented around 40-45% of Ute sales.

It wasn't the XR8 volumes which were pitiful and the reason (well one of the reasons) it was axed.

Nor was it the RTV which did sell reasonably well and I was a bit surprised when it got the chop given the relatively low investment required to continue it but it wasn't adding the extra volume in the latter period fo availability either.

Nor would it be a diesel option (the Ranger has that covered very effectively) or an IRS equipped one (half the reason it is purchased is the better load capacity over the Holden equivalents) or half the other suggestions in this thread.

Most of the lost volume has been the absence of an LPG option. Whether the reappearance of that option will revive the sales of Ute back into the 12-1500 units per month level remains to be seen but for those who want it to stay then you'd better start voting with your wallets.

The uncertainty around the next Falcon platform (or badged Falcon anyway) will be the deciding factor more than anything else. IF it ends up being a platform that requires substantial investment to produce a Ute variant then the Ute is almost certainly sunk.

For any other platform (including the existing one) it will simply be a cost/benefit analysis by the FoA bean counters based on sales projections and profit margins.

Personally, I like the FG XR Ute as a car like load carrier without the (poor) performance of a Ranger or the other downsides to a vehicle of that ilk. That isn't to suggest that it isn't the right vehicle for other people or a good vehicle in it's own right but the original ute philosophy that saw it first introduced way back when, still applies for me.

It isn't a great vehicle by any means - particularly in the areas of fit and finish - nor is Ford warranty support anything to write home about but (in E-Gas form anyway) it is reasonably priced, cheap to run and meets my needs for a daily driver.

If there are enough people who feel the same AND the future gas powered vehicles stop being the poor cousins (which they have been in the past - think 4 speed auto) then there is every chance that the ute can survive into the future as long as it isn't killed by platform choice.

Cheers
Russ

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by russellw

Personally, I like the FG XR Ute as a car like load carrier without the (poor) performance of a Ranger or the other downsides to a vehicle of that ilk. That isn't to suggest that it isn't the right vehicle for other people or a good vehicle in it's own right but the original ute philosophy that saw it first introduced way back when, still applies for me.

Right on the money. I agree entirely with your post and especially with this part. The Falcon ute is still the "right" vehicle for a lot of people (like me and you) and has no real replacement .. even the Holden ute.

[Franco Cozzo]

What is the point of a FWD Falcon when you have Mondeo? Its nearly the same size and is better equipped. Might as well as can the Falcon and do a 3.5L EBV6 version of Mondeo .

I'm interested in the space saving benefits of FWD which is more important to me over performance.

If you want car like comfort with practicality of a big boot go buy a Mercedes Sprinter. Its more comfortable than most cars I reckon.

[Perko]

This has been a thread I have been watching with a bit of interest as I have a deep love of utes and especially XR8's. I think that the Falcon ute (or Holden ute for that matter) certainly still has a place in the market. A sedan based utility suits many people not looking for the clearance of an equivalent 4WD and also after more performance. Where Ford has not done itself any favours is communicating what exactly it intends on doing for the near future and what the possible options are. By doing so it has only fuelled instability with the public and at forums like this. As a sales manager I understand the cold figures of whether a product should survive or be invested it but figures can be used for or against your argument depending on what you want to say.

With the ute I think there are some great points brought up. Yes LPG is hurting sales, I owned a RTV and I still think that it is a mistake that it did not continue, and having an XR8 would be good (but on figures I understand why it was dropped). Where I think Ford has missed the point with a number of things is they have looked at their range individually and not as a marketing bundle.

If you drop the ute, do you risk other models because that buyer will be exposed to competitors products that fit the needs (Commodore ute)? I know that there are a number of diehard fans out there but for the everyday person this may not be the case. When the day comes that I get rid of my ute I will be looking at all the options in the market. Obviously whatever V8 Ford has in a ute will be my first choice, but if it not there then maybe Holden might be an option. I am not trying to start the Holden vs Ford thing here but I hope that you understand the logic. If that person likes the service from a competitor then it also opens the doubt of their next purchase. Some families have two vehicles if one is a ute. In my household I have the XR8 ute and a Territory. But when I go to trade in both it is simpler to do them at the same dealer rather than looking for other options. So from my point of view products like the ute, wagon, and XR8 have other marketing and value add propositions that figures do not reflect. Dropping the ute would be a mistake that I think pesonally will have huge ramifications for Ford sales in other models.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I love my XR6 too, asside from all the issues with Ford dealers and FORD CRC...

If only they upped the build quality a little on these cars and were flexible with column shift / 3 seaters.. Its BS you cannot buy a column shift XR6... Id continue to buy them but it looks like ill be going for a ranger next..

Ive had 2 x XR6 utes and 1 XLS and they have all been good for what I do, even though I am an accountant lol!

[Perko]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I love my XR6 too, asside from all the issues with Ford dealers and FORD CRC...

If only they upped the build quality a little on these cars and were flexible with column shift / 3 seaters.. Its BS you cannot buy a column shift XR6... Id continue to buy them but it looks like ill be going for a ranger next..

Ive had 2 x XR6 utes and 1 XLS and they have all been good for what I do, even though I am an accountant lol!

Totally agree with you about the column shift. I have been wondering that now all vehicle have the ZF box, even the bench seats I think, how hard it would be to mod a XR6 or more importantly a XR6T. That would be one combination I would possibly leave the XR8 for.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

I have done my bit to support the brand.

yeah, we can only buy one every three-five years

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

If you want car like comfort with practicality of a big boot go buy a Mercedes Sprinter. Its more comfortable than most cars I reckon.

but a sprinter is an ugly box on wheels, not a sleek muscle car like falcon ute.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

but a sprinter is an ugly box on wheels

I suspect that you praise it too highly even with that opinion

Cheers
Russ

[V8UTE]

I think Ford should do what Holden has done and basically align it with the sedan and have an IRS ute and having alot more common parts with the sedan. Mostly I use my ute for light loads and towing and it does long trips so the Falcon performance and handling and ride is what i like. Its a nice place to be sitting and no Jap diesel ute would ever feel as good.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by V8UTE

I think Ford should do what Holden has done and basically align it with the sedan and have an IRS ute and having alot more common parts with the sedan. Mostly I use my ute for light loads and towing and it does long trips so the Falcon performance and handling and ride is what i like. Its a nice place to be sitting and no Jap diesel ute would ever feel as good.

As Russ stated the Ute sells for its carrying capacity an IRS setup would need to be 1 ton option I doubt Ford are going to spend up on the development for a vehicle that doesn't sell a great number of units, if it stays I think it will remain in a work horse capacity/set-up..

Long live the Aussie Ford Ute ...

[Polyal]

Yes I clearly remember the AU series promoting all the different versions you could order.

Ford has always been for work and Holden utes for show (not taking anything away from the FPV and XR utes).

Whats perhaps hurting Ford is the rise of pickups, which work a little harder and people are seemingly happy (enough) with the "comfort" the bring.

LPG cant come soon enough.

[spvd02]

I'm a Ford customer...

So, I'm deciding here and now that Ford will keep building the Falcon ute.

Presumably that's what they mean by customers deciding?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by spvd02

I'm a Ford customer...

So, I'm deciding here and now that Ford will keep building the Falcon ute.

Presumably that's what they mean by customers deciding?

If enough Ford customers don't buy the Falcon ute and buy a Ranger instead then the customer is deciding that the Falcon ute is going bye bye.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by KBC

What a way to get rid of the Falcon name plate just as they have hinted about. First the long wheel base LTD's and Fairlanes DEAD, Falcon wagons DEAD now the ute is going to suffer the same fate. Guess what is next on the chopping block! How are you supposed to sell anything in numbers if you keep giving the customer less and less choice.

FORD is killing off these cars themselves to get rid of Falcon but are blaming dropping car sales. Well hello of course they will drop if you keep killing them off instead of asking the customer AND LISTENING how to fix the problem. Doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome isn't that a sign of stupidity! Get your head out of your **** FORD, stop telling us this is what you want, instead listen to what WE want and deliver.
What happened in the mid eighties? " lets get rid of the V8 that is what the public wants", saying it was due to fuel prices. HA guess what you lost a **** load of customers to the red side and then tried to back peddle with the EB windsor when you realised you stuffed up. Well guess what history will repeat itself again.
I will keep my current FORD cars but if they kill the falcon and go front wheel drive I will cross over for my new car to who ever has a rear wheel platform. Front wheel drive I feel is unsafe with under steer and will not put my family into one. What is the point of having a front wheel drive car with any hint of power when to get traction and combat under steer the ECU pulls out timing and fuel to lower the power level.
Come on wake up and just bloody listen.
Just my two cents worth.

So KBC, if you had a family car in FWD, you'd drive it so fast around sharp corners that you'd experience understeer WITH your family in the car?

Tell me in short where you'd experience POWER understeer in a normal driving situation with your family in the car, and don't tell me the usual carp of hitting oil or water because a rwd won't steer in a straight line either if there is oil on the front tyres, and if you tell me in that situation you'd be able to drift the average single spinner diff RWD after hitting oil then unless you or your wife are Tiff Needell, I find this unlikely....

[4.0i_SiX]

As has been stated. The biggest issue is with the popularity of the Dual cab 4x4's on the market. A workhorse through the week and a toy on the weekends ( camping, 4x4ing etc etc )

To stay competitive the falcon really really needs this new LPG system and fast. 1 tonne payload & LPG is really the only way to appeal to the tradies, I dont think an IRS version would be all that successful, keep the show ponies for the knuckle dragging Commodore drivers

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Danny

So KBC, if you had a family car in FWD, you'd drive it so fast around sharp corners that you'd experience understeer WITH your family in the car?

Tell me in short where you'd experience POWER understeer in a normal driving situation with your family in the car, and don't tell me the usual carp of hitting oil or water because a rwd won't steer in a straight line either if there is oil on the front tyres, and if you tell me in that situation you'd be able to drift the average single spinner diff RWD after hitting oil then unless you or your wife are Tiff Needell, I find this unlikely....

Hey don't knock it, drifting is fun for the whole family to enjoy. lol.

[Gobes32]

To add my two cents worth. If we were to purchase a new car for my own needs, it most certainly would be a dual cab. I still get the "boys club" feeling because it's a ute, it seats the kids in the back, and on weekends I can sort of go off-road ( I can drive through muddy puddles at the kids footy games.........)

And most importantly, my missus approves of them. She loves SS utes and XR8's, but her exact words were, "yeah, they are great if you don't have kids......."

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by spvd02

I'm a Ford customer...

So, I'm deciding here and now that Ford will keep building the Falcon ute.

Presumably that's what they mean by customers deciding?

No they mean putting your wallet where you mouth is.

If people dont buy them then they will have no reason to build them.

I think the new ranger will definately give the Falcon ute a bit of a hiding, Dual cab utes have always lacked up until now, but this new Ranger should be alot closer to a family sedan then anything before it, power, refinement and technology wise.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

To add my two cents worth. If we were to purchase a new car for my own needs, it most certainly would be a dual cab. I still get the "boys club" feeling because it's a ute, it seats the kids in the back, and on weekends I can sort of go off-road ( I can drive through muddy puddles at the kids footy games.........)
And most importantly, my missus approves of them. She loves SS utes and XR8's, but her exact words were, "yeah, they are great if you don't have kids......."

+1

If you have kids its a no brainer, also if you need extra towing I believe they do quite a bit more than the falcon. My partner and I have actually talked about when it happens would be go Territory TDi or Ranger TDi...Ranger is winning.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Polyal

+1

If you have kids its a no brainer, also if you need extra towing I believe they do quite a bit more than the falcon. My partner and I have actually talked about when it happens would be go Territory TDi or Ranger TDi...Ranger is winning.

My partners ideal garage is a Territory for her and a D40 Nissan Navara for me.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

As Russ stated the Ute sells for its carrying capacity an IRS setup would need to be 1 ton option I doubt Ford are going to spend up on the development for a vehicle that doesn't sell a great number of units, if it stays I think it will remain in a work horse capacity/set-up..

Long live the Aussie Ford Ute ...

The carrying capacity argument is a myth..SV6 and SS IRS utes can carry a heavier load than the XR6/XR8 sports suspension utes. Sure you can buy a 1 tonne Falcon..Commodore Omega ute is about 800kg IIRC..much of a muchness really.

[FG XR]

Have ford ever bothered to consider their own marketing is to blame? Course not! I mean look at the new territory ad... Some chick talking about her driving to see her Facebook friends... Might go buy myself a territory right away!!

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

To add my two cents worth. If we were to purchase a new car for my own needs, it most certainly would be a dual cab. I still get the "boys club" feeling because it's a ute, it seats the kids in the back, and on weekends I can sort of go off-road ( I can drive through muddy puddles at the kids footy games.........)

And most importantly, my missus approves of them. She loves SS utes and XR8's, but her exact words were, "yeah, they are great if you don't have kids......."

Exactly my point.

In a perfect world the option of a Dual cab Falcon ute would be awesome, but there is the Ranger. Same story with Holden Crewman and Rodeo/Colorado. Admittedly the crewman was a pointless vehicle. it couldnt carry anyone over 4"1 in the back seats and nothing bigger than a bag of gold clubs in the rear haha.

[V8UTE]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

As Russ stated the Ute sells for its carrying capacity an IRS setup would need to be 1 ton option I doubt Ford are going to spend up on the development for a vehicle that doesn't sell a great number of units, if it stays I think it will remain in a work horse capacity/set-up..

Long live the Aussie Ford Ute ...

I would still happily buy the ute as is now so I am not having a dig at the current ute but that means the ute is out of sync with the sedan and using different parts. I assume the new Ranger will be a suitable workhorse for most and take sales and could make the Falcon ute even more out on its own with its different parts and longer wheelbase. I am looking at this from the point of veiw of Ford being able to continue with a ute.

I am wondering if the majority of the ute buyers are like myself and would still be happy with a "car like" ute for lighter duties and towing or would there be less sales if that was adopted. It must also help to align the ute more closely with the car for manufacturing purposes much like Holden has done with the wagon and the ute. They are all on the same platform.

Just my thoughts

[SteveJH]

Someone before mentioned that the SSB Falcon ute can take a full sized Australian Standard Pallet (as used by CHEP) and that the SSB ranger cannot, can the T6 Ranger fit one?

In the next 12 months i'll be looking for a new car, who knows what I buy, but if I get a falcon i'll definately look at utes, not like I need a back seat at the moment anyway, 90% of the time i'm the only person in the car.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

yeah, we can only buy one every three-five years


but a sprinter is an ugly box on wheels, not a sleek muscle car like falcon ute.

Its a nice looking box on wheels

Falcon ute isn't a muscle car.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by 5.0

The carrying capacity argument is a myth..SV6 and SS IRS utes can carry a heavier load than the XR6/XR8 sports suspension utes. Sure you can buy a 1 tonne Falcon..Commodore Omega ute is about 800kg IIRC..much of a muchness really.

Commodore had 2 platforms few years back 1 ton option its gone now not viable to have both.
Would love to see a tradesmen 1 ton alloy tray fitted on to the current day commodore Ute..
Carrying a lot of weight for a period of time the leaf spring rear will be more durable..