Govt considering new Bull Bar rules

[flappist]

How about this for a law.

If there is a collision between a car and a pedestrian and it is on a zebra crossing or the footpath it is the cars fault but if on a road it is the pedestrians fault.

You know, some sort or responsibility for their actions.

Oh and in addition make it illegal to text while walking.......

[davez104]

Damn good idea but personal responsibility seems to be a thing of the past. People seem to be always looking for some one or some thing else to blame.

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by flappist

How about this for a law.

If there is a collision between a car and a pedestrian and it is on a zebra crossing or the footpath it is the cars fault but if on a road it is the pedestrians fault.

You know, some sort or responsibility for their actions.

Oh and in addition make it illegal to text while walking.......

I think you are onto something here!

How about we introduce random breath testing for all pedestrians walking on public roads..... obviously we couldn't ban them from walking for 6 months (unless the cops attacked their knees with their batons, for example, or something similar), but out of this the state governments could really generate a lot of revenue from this! It could make speed cameras look like small time earners.

And just think about it for a minute, that would keep those terrible alcohol consuming people in society sober which would free up all the hospital beds, which means the states could slash the health budget and close half of the hospitals.... Billions of $$$ saved overnight.

[302 XC]

Um there are already laws for drinking while in public,
And that includes walkways and the road
You dont loose your walking freedom unfortunately,but you get a fine

Like any law its not whats logical or feasable
They dont listen to reason
They listen to who screams the loudest,wether right or wrong

[flappist]

Actually making voting non-compulsory and putting all polling booths a long way from pubs, pokies and shopping centres would solve the majority of problems....

[jamesT]

heres my bit.
when i was younger one of my best mates was cleaned up by a 4wd with a bullbar, he was killed.
guess what, as much as i'd love to blame the driver, we were 14 and ****ed, he tripped and got cleaned up. bluntly. **** happens. yes it was horrible, yes it was a shocking thing to see. but the point still remains it was my mates fault not the drivers.

bull bars are there for a reason, we need them. i've hit roo's, cows, and even a horse. (well i was a passenger in the horse accident but the point still remains) even if you are careful, things can still happen out of your control. you simply CANNOT think fast enough to avoid EVERY situation that might be possible. yes take precautions but it doesn't make you fool proof.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by flappist

How about this for a law.

If there is a collision between a car and a pedestrian and it is on a zebra crossing or the footpath it is the cars fault but if on a road it is the pedestrians fault.

You know, some sort or responsibility for their actions.

Oh and in addition make it illegal to text while walking.......

Isn't it pretty much the car drivers fault no matter what happens?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Why should bullbars be only put on rural registered cars and not urban cars?

I happen to be one of these urban folk, that has a bullbar fitted to one of his cars. it's not one of these monsterious units either. it's just an alloy one, fitted to protect the front of the car, from knuckleheads.

It has already saved me or at least some moron a few extra dollas. I was parked and some moron decided to back into the bullbar. Left a beautiful dint in the back of their car. Mine, moved the bullbar on it's mounts.

My car is a commodore with a GS bonnet grafted into the original one. The guards have VZ flutes grafted. The paint work is a mix up a mate and I did, by throwing different colours all together and stirring up. (Yes I have plenty left over after the re-spray).

If I didn't have a bullbar fitted, firstly the bonnet and guards would have to be re-done. Then I would have had the problem with negioating paint costs with the panel beater. Or should working out with the panel beater how much my paint is worth and getting the money for it.

So I say why should bullbars be limited to just the rural folk. Us city slickers don't just use them intimidation. They are there for a purpose and mine is to save me a lot of headaches, with moronic drivers.

And just what % of the motoring population falls into your catagory...

Urban living, bullbar wearing modified vehicle that is at the mercy of every other motorist as a result of your limited supply of fancy paint and aftermarket accessories?

C'mon, the mojority of people couldnt care less if they are damaged by another idiot as they either have insurance, or just dont care and take their chances.
If this wasn't the case, bullbars would be standard on all new cars.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i'd have thought if a 4wd hit you hard enough to kill you it wouldn't matter if it had a bull bar or not (at least, not to the pedestrian).

Hmm, did you read my post?

As i said, if you were hit clean at 40, 50 or 60, in a suburban street by a 4wd, chances are you would die.
If you were hit at say 20, or 30 you may survive.
If you were hit at 20 or 30 by a solid steel/alloy bullbar you could quite likely die.
Therein lies the problem.
The bullbar, in suburbia, where its unnecessary, adds a whole other evil to what could be a survivable accident.

Why do you think certain states ban forward facing scoops or non factory bonnet pins etc. from vehicles...its an unnecessary evil to anyone unlucky enough to find themselves in the path of them.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And just what % of the motoring population falls into your catagory...

Urban living, bullbar wearing modified vehicle that is at the mercy of every other motorist as a result of your limited supply of fancy paint and aftermarket accessories?

C'mon, the mojority of people couldnt care less if they are damaged by another idiot as they either have insurance, or just dont care and take their chances.
If this wasn't the case, bullbars would be standard on all new cars.

I agree there mightn't be a great percentage of urbanites that fit bullbars for the same reason as I have, but all the same placing a blanket ban on bullbars fitted to surburbia vehicles as you are stating is unfair.

As for the damage factor. Mate, check out this forum. There are more than you fair share of people complaining about damage done to their cars, as a result of neglegant idiots around the place. We won't go into the rest of the country.

The comments relating to 4wd's hitting people and killing them. It doesn't matter what sort of vehicle it is, or what speed it is doing or even if a bullbar is fitted. If you're hit on the wrong angle, you're stuffed. Example. You could be near a light pole, just put a foot out on the roadway, as an innocient motorist comes through. The motorist clips you, you get knocked sideways into the steel pole and crack your skull open, snuffing you instantly. Yes, very unlikely, but indeed possible.

So that part of the thread is really irrevelant to the discussion.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Hmm, did you read my post?

As i said, if you were hit clean at 40, 50 or 60, in a suburban street by a 4wd, chances are you would die.
If you were hit at say 20, or 30 you may survive.
If you were hit at 20 or 30 by a solid steel/alloy bullbar you could quite likely die.
Therein lies the problem.
The bullbar, in suburbia, where its unnecessary, adds a whole other evil to what could be a survivable accident.

Why do you think certain states ban forward facing scoops or non factory bonnet pins etc. from vehicles...its an unnecessary evil to anyone unlucky enough to find themselves in the path of them.

Yeh it would be like being hit by an old school muscle car like an XY GT.

Should these be banned from the roads too?

After all, they are not necessary....are they?

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

As i said, if you were hit clean at 40, 50 or 60, in a suburban street by a 4wd, chances are you would die.
If you were hit at say 20, or 30 you may survive.
If you were hit at 20 or 30 by a solid steel/alloy bullbar you could quite likely die.
Therein lies the problem.
The bullbar, in suburbia, where its unnecessary, adds a whole other evil to what could be a survivable accident.

If I were to hit a pedestrian in a B-Double at 20 K/PH without a bullbar, they would most likely end up in the same condition as if I’d hit them at 90 K/PH. Dead, just with a little less mess to clean up. If I hit the same pedestrian in a bloody Prius at 30 K/PH and didn’t hit the brakes until I’d gone over the top of them, they’d be dead too.

I realise that this topic is about 4WD bullbars but I’ll let you know something about trucks that you may not be aware of. When 26 metre B-Doubles were introduced a few years back, one of the requirements were that they must be fitted with a FUPS (Front Underrun Protection System) bumper or bullbar. These are bullbars or bumpers that are strengthened beyond belief and they must stop a car from going underneath the front of a heavy vehicle in a front impact collision. In 2012, all heavy vehicles will have to be fitted with a FUPS bumper or bullbar regardless of how old they are or whether they’re a B-Double or not. This will be a new ADR

So how can you have a truck that is forced by law to have a stronger bullbar and then some poor bugger with a 4WD who will be prevented from having one at all when they effectively drive on the same roads?

And before anyone gets on their high horse and says that trucks are mainly on the highways, it might come as a great shock to many that a lot of semis and B-Doubles actually drive on suburban roads to deliver freight. Geez, who’d have thought?

It may also come as a surprise to some that the “5 poster” bars fitted to the Holden’s in post 96 may not be illegal because of the fact that they are fitted to utes and a ute is registered as a commercial vehicle, so different ADRs apply.

You can’t have one law for the bush and one for the city just to keep a few latte drinking, tree hugging, lycra waring, pushbike riding, Green voting, inner city trendies happy.

If this were to happen it would open up a legal minefield and would sink any government stupid enough to try it. The last time I checked, the A in ADR stood for Australian and a few more people should consider that and open their narrow little minds to the fact that Australia reaches out a lot further then the inner suburbs of Melbourne or Sydney.

Seriously, who the Hell do they think they are anyway?

[FgNewbie]

Full N how heavy do you reckon the 5 poster in #96 is?

[Full Noise]

I don’t know how much one of those would weigh but you’d probably be supprised. It may not be as much as you think. They can be made out of any thickness of tubing and these are usually pretty thin.

[XR Martin]

Probably 50kg, if not more. All that weight so far forward is not what the manufacturer ever envisaged. It would cause hell to camber, castor, toe, bushes, steering, braking.
Bars on 4wds are one thing, but those stupid oversize truck ones on cars/utes is completely different.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Who makes steel bullbars nowadays ???

ECB, IRONMAN, TJM, ARB, TUFF, and many others...

[302 XC]

I think there are way to many conflicting issues,
The front bar on the commodore and holden ute above are not the same bullbars on every other 4x4
So comparing everyone else to those is wrong
Yes some bars might wieght more than a factory front bumper,and how much difference ,well that depends on who/what/how its made
Remember some early 4x4s had steel box like channel bumpers standard,so remove this and replace with an alloy bar the wieght is minimal
IF manufacturers thought for a sec fitting a bullbar of sorts could cause warranty issues,they wouldnt allow them for fitment when you buy that new 4x4

[wicksy]

morons that is all, let them drive around st george,roma and injune at night with no bullbar and see what happens! if you can get through there without hitting a roo your bloody lucky

[Hulsty]

I am not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is a survey to help keep bullbars.

Bullbars Under Threat

I myself am a avid 4wd owner and regularly use my vehicle for its purpose and beyond. A bull bar is an essential piece of equipment for what I do.

I think though there is always scope to improve their design and safety for the vehicle and pedestrian.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

In 2012, all heavy vehicles will have to be fitted with a FUPS bumper or bullbar regardless of how old they are or whether they’re a B-Double or not. This will be a new ADR

whats considered a heavy vehicle, in regards to this new adr?

[joolz]

Originally Posted by mik

the do gooders have been trying to get these banned for years, they don`t need a ban , just a redesign.

Educate the idiot pedestrians that have painted on eyes. Look left and right before you cross the road!!!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh it would be like being hit by an old school muscle car like an XY GT.

Should these be banned from the roads too?

After all, they are not necessary....are they?

And the % of old school muscle on the roads in a major city on any given day is...?
Proberbly the same as the number of country registered, bullbar wearing 4wd's that venture in...minimal.

Lets not make this something it isnt, i thought you were above that.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And the % of old school muscle on the roads in a major city on any given day is...?
Proberbly the same as the number of country registered, bullbar wearing 4wd's that venture in...minimal.

Lets not make this something it isnt, i thought you were above that.

Nah, just having a bit of fun....

But it is interesting the changes in reactions when an idea is turned around or extrapolated.......

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

If I were to hit a pedestrian in a B-Double at 20 K/PH without a bullbar, they would most likely end up in the same condition as if I’d hit them at 90 K/PH. Dead, just with a little less mess to clean up. If I hit the same pedestrian in a bloody Prius at 30 K/PH and didn’t hit the brakes until I’d gone over the top of them, they’d be dead too.

I realise that this topic is about 4WD bullbars but I’ll let you know something about trucks that you may not be aware of. When 26 metre B-Doubles were introduced a few years back, one of the requirements were that they must be fitted with a FUPS (Front Underrun Protection System) bumper or bullbar. These are bullbars or bumpers that are strengthened beyond belief and they must stop a car from going underneath the front of a heavy vehicle in a front impact collision. In 2012, all heavy vehicles will have to be fitted with a FUPS bumper or bullbar regardless of how old they are or whether they’re a B-Double or not. This will be a new ADR

So how can you have a truck that is forced by law to have a stronger bullbar and then some poor bugger with a 4WD who will be prevented from having one at all when they effectively drive on the same roads?

And before anyone gets on their high horse and says that trucks are mainly on the highways, it might come as a great shock to many that a lot of semis and B-Doubles actually drive on suburban roads to deliver freight. Geez, who’d have thought?

It may also come as a surprise to some that the “5 poster” bars fitted to the Holden’s in post 96 may not be illegal because of the fact that they are fitted to utes and a ute is registered as a commercial vehicle, so different ADRs apply.

You can’t have one law for the bush and one for the city just to keep a few latte drinking, tree hugging, lycra waring, pushbike riding, Green voting, inner city trendies happy.

If this were to happen it would open up a legal minefield and would sink any government stupid enough to try it. The last time I checked, the A in ADR stood for Australian and a few more people should consider that and open their narrow little minds to the fact that Australia reaches out a lot further then the inner suburbs of Melbourne or Sydney.

Seriously, who the Hell do they think they are anyway?

I dont think trucks really come into the equation.
Obviously they are required to travel interstate/rural roads regularly and so would be exempt.
I believe the issue lies with the suburbanites who tick the bullbar option despite never being in a situation to require one.

Reading Adelaides Advertiser this morning, page 14 reads 'Mr White suggested the use of bullbars be linked to where vehicles are registered'

Mr White is the president of the Farmers federation and has opposed the ban of bullbars in rural situations.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

As for the damage factor. Mate, check out this forum. There are more than you fair share of people complaining about damage done to their cars, as a result of neglegant idiots around the place. We won't go into the rest of the country.

Every vehicle involved in an accident carries a % of blame regardless of fault, perhaps we should all walk

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The comments relating to 4wd's hitting people and killing them. It doesn't matter what sort of vehicle it is, or what speed it is doing or even if a bullbar is fitted. If you're hit on the wrong angle, you're stuffed. Example. You could be near a light pole, just put a foot out on the roadway, as an innocient motorist comes through. The motorist clips you, you get knocked sideways into the steel pole and crack your skull open, snuffing you instantly. Yes, very unlikely, but indeed possible.

So that part of the thread is really irrevelant to the discussion.

Or you could fall off the gutter and get run over just as easily, should we ban gutters?

There are heaps of ways you could die, no doubt, but this legislation is about reducing an unnecessary risk.

Just like manufacturers have added DSC, ABS, SRS etc. etc. to help prevent unnecessary deaths to vehicle occupants, so too will this legislation for pedestrians and other motorists.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

whats considered a heavy vehicle, in regards to this new adr?

Anything over 12 tonne.

http://www.anthonyalbanese.com.au/fi...PGF/index.html

Cheers

[fairBA]

here's a fact about bullbars -

The EF falcon was the first car in the world that had a bullbar compatible airbag -

Been waiting soo long to use that piece of info.

[fairBA]

Originally Posted by fairBA

here's a fact about bullbars -

The EF falcon was the first car in the world that had a bullbar compatible airbag -

.

Sorry - meant to read airbag compatible bullbar.

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by fairBA

here's a fact about bullbars -

The EF falcon was the first car in the world that had a bullbar compatible airbag -

Been waiting soo long to use that piece of info.

careful, you might give the pen-pushers ideas.
bullbar compatible airbags for pedestrians

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Every vehicle involved in an accident carries a % of blame regardless of fault, perhaps we should all walk



Or you could fall off the gutter and get run over just as easily, should we ban gutters?

There are heaps of ways you could die, no doubt, but this legislation is about reducing an unnecessary risk.

Just like manufacturers have added DSC, ABS, SRS etc. etc. to help prevent unnecessary deaths to vehicle occupants, so too will this legislation for pedestrians and other motorists.

Have you got any idea what you're saying. Firstly, you're banging the drum about banning bullbars fitted to cars in surburbia, now you're saying this dribble. Seriously, you need to get out and about and see what happens in the real world, as far as motoring is concerned.