Lambo seized after mechanic caught speeding - Page 5

ozrunner · 08-01-2010, 11:42 PM

Listening to and reading about this event made my blood boil and I shot this email off to the Premier earlier today and also the local paper.
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Farcical Laws

Mr Barnett, sorry to trouble you knowing your heavy work schedule and ethic but will you please do the motoring public of WA a favour and put your Minister for Police back in the Weeties box where he was found.

I am of course referring to his stance and comments relating to the recent reports on the impounding of an innocent drivers vehicle.

I stand corrected but the laws being used as far as I can recall were enacted as a means to combat a particular unruly element and I would say their specific intent was fully endorsed by all.

Yet, the learned Mr Johnson's reaction to this totally unjust application of these laws is "It’s not something that I’m prepared to change the law for simply because somebody who owns a Lamborghini does not have that car for 28 days...." Mr Johnson, the fact is these laws are now being used to impound vehicles when it is quite clear the owner/s of the vehicle/s had no involvement whatsoever in the offence.

Then on top of that we have one of the Commissioner of Police's finest stating "If he can afford one of those cars, surely he can afford a hire car for the next 28 days ". I'm sure I don't need to point out the implications of such an incredulous statement. He then advises " the owner did not qualify under "extraordinary hardship provisions to have his car returned". Are we to conclude if it was a Kingswood the outcome might have been different. Maybe you both could lend him your wifes car for 28 days but hope that he drives within these laws.

Are we to assume that the thousands of motorists that drop off their cars everyday for a "service" could lose it for 28 days if it's misused. Can someone please give these two people a good dose of old fashioned common sense.

These laws are obviously wrong and are now being used to target innocent people, surely that's enough to see they need rectifying so get on with it Mr Johnson and stop your mindless twaddle.

Virtually every night our local streets are still being subjected to the real "hoon activities" and our local officers do a good job within their resources, but yes Mr Johnson, I'm sure the whole of Perth will now sleep a lot better knowing Dr Nugawela's Lambo will be off the road for 28 days.

signed
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Probably won't make the paper as on tonights news the dipstick Minister has now backed down and indicated the law will be changed to accomodate these instances
.

ltd_on20s · 09-01-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

.................................................. ..........................................

Probably won't make the paper as on tonights news the dipstick Minister has now backed down and indicated the law will be changed to accomodate these instances
.

LOL

serious?

geez maybe mister hard nut minister got a call from above when they found out the docs bro is a solicitor and they knew once this was appealed to a higher court the govt would look like fools.......

geckoGT · 09-01-2010, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

The owner was our family doctor when i was a kid. (Going back about 20 years) I always looked forward to going because i could check out his porche 928 that he had at the time.

Was this the doctors surgery in Greenwood in the eighties? If so, he was my doctor too, and yes I remember his porsche (although I think it was a 944 at the time).

Big Mike · 09-01-2010, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

If an employee wrecked a customer's car, the employer is liable, and then its between the employer's insurance and the employee to sort out between themselves.

So you think you're arguing trying to contradict - but in fact you've just reconfirmed my exact point. Whether the police crush it, or the mechanic writes it off, the customer is the loser here, the car is gone, his insurance is irrelevant, it rests entirely on the mechanic and workshop. Hence the point - less dodgy bosses, less moron mechanics thinking they can get away with flogging someone else's car.

When some bowser drives my car I am in the same boat as Dave (AusLandau) and beyond devestated to see rubber, wear and tear, or heaven forbid confiscation or damage. I would not stand there crying, saying "oh I understand others will be better off" nor am I really saying that now, as I'm sure suicide would be at the forefront of my mind. Thus the a-hole who got it towed/crushed/wrecked/whatever and his boss need to cough up through their public liability or whatever and 'fix the problem' right now.

I guess, I'm blaiming the bowser at fault - and whatever we all think of the law - its not the law at fault here, is it.

EDIT - Well done [ozrunner] a great email that might get some attention.

blueluvr · 09-01-2010, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I guess, I'm blaiming the bowser at fault - and whatever we all think of the law - its not the law at fault here, is it.

If it was a hastily written law and one that allows this kind of thing to occur, of course the law is at fault, why do you think they just decided to rewrite it so it doesn't happen again.....because it had faults !!!!!

nstg8a · 09-01-2010, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueluvr

1: Mr X steals a police vehicle and gets nabbed for doing 160 in a 100 zone.......does the police car get impounded under the rules? ;)

As has been pointed out the law states the actual vehicle involved will be confiscated.

2: A mechanic takes a police vehicle for a test after repairs and gets done exactly the same as mr Lambo wrench, does the cop car/bike get impounded?

3: Someone steals MY car and gets done for "hooning" do I lose my car? Under the current law, all 3 should be a yes. Now, how utterly stupid is that when you think about it? .

numbers 1 and 3, no it wouldnt be impounded, because it was stolen, its clearly written in the law that if a vehicle is stolen it wont be impounded.

number 2, technically yes, its exactly the same scenario as the doc's lambo.
would bet money it wouldnt though.

**DJR-351** · 09-01-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I guess, I'm blaiming the bowser at fault - and whatever we all think of the law - its not the law at fault here, is it.

Of course the law is/was at fault, why do you think it is being re-written...

Im involved in a stouch with Marine and Safety Queensland over a stupid piece of legislation, and thankfully after a long fight it's in the procsess of being re-written...

The problem with our legislators is that they are basicly lazy b******s, they don't study the ramifications or side effects of what law(s) they want to push through, which results in a blanket effect dragging innocents into the mess. And what makes it easier for these idiots is the majority of Aussies are quite prepared to drop there strides, bend over and take it and then parrot the usual "well what can you do, thats the law, accept it" @#$%^&g pathetic!!!

I pay the wages for these guys, they are accountable to me, and you!! and it's about time some of you realized that....

Good onya ozrunner, mine (plus 2 brothers) is in there somewhere with yours, and by the sounds of it, a few others....

BOSHOG · 09-01-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

numbers 1 and 3, no it wouldnt be impounded, because it was stolen, its clearly written in the law that if a vehicle is stolen it wont be impounded.

number 2, technically yes, its exactly the same scenario as the doc's lambo.
would bet money it wouldnt though.

even though this guy handed over his keys i consider taking it for a joyride (this is clearly not a test drive so lets stop acting like it was). i consider this car stolen, and if it was me id be pursuing it this way, especially if my brother was a lawyer

flappist · 09-01-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

even though this guy handed over his keys i consider taking it for a joyride (this is clearly not a test drive so lets stop acting like it was). i consider this car stolen, and if it was me id be pursuing it this way, especially if my brother was a lawyer

You may consider it stolen but the laws says otherwise.

BOSHOG · 09-01-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You may consider it stolen but the laws says otherwise.

well maybe i need to think long and hard when i leave my car with someone, because the law is a joke if this is considered legal

Gabbs · 09-01-2010, 12:02 PM

Can I ask where this 30ks from the workshop number came up. Its based in malaga and he was caught on reid hwy near mirrabooka if I recall.

Quote:

I can't understand how this happened. He has said he was not doing the speed that's claimed and will defend the matter.

Thats from the doctor.

Also alot of you are saying its stupid and dangerous. Sure the speed that was claimed is silly but it is on a straight piece of highway it wasn't somewhere in the suburbs which I'd consider worse.

4Vman · 09-01-2010, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

well maybe i need to think long and hard when i leave my car with someone, because the law is a joke if this is considered legal

Draw up a duty of care contract and try to get the workshop to sign it if you drop your car off.... Put in a forfeiture of car clause too...

BOSHOG · 09-01-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Draw up a duty of care contract and try to get the workshop to sign it if you drop your car off.... Put in a forfeiture of car clause too...

i know my workshop of choice is safe to leave car keys with, as is yours (you use bluepower right?). autotech even did a condition report when i dropped my car off the first time, inc odo reading, i was surprised when i came out to see Daniel checking out the front and rear bars and noting the scrapes in detail.

i just cant get my head around the fact that you can lose your car even though you did nothing wrong.

flappist · 09-01-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

well maybe i need to think long and hard when i leave my car with someone, because the law is a joke if this is considered legal

Just because it is not legal does not make it stealing.

There is a legal definition for stealing.

This may be unlawful use or it may be a civil matter.

The law is not simple, logical nor clear cut. If it were we would not need squillions of lawyers and politicians who used to be lawyers........

gtxb67 · 09-01-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

For those of you who disagre with this issue write to your local MP or get a lobby group together, i have sent numerous letters to mine (MP) over the years, but unfortunatly the inbox is usualy pretty low...

out of interest, what have you actually done - just letters? if so they are nothing more than posting on this forum. you allude to the fact that since i and many others do nothing and try and play within the law that we deserve something bad to happen to us. that is a bit unfair isn't it - when we were kids, most of us dreamed of changing the world - i had believed "if you were not looking for the solution, then you were part of the problem" for a day or so, until i was asked what the actual problem was. and then if the perceived problem to you is fixed, is it not creating a perceived problem for someone else. and surprisingly they will probably be more vocal about it
i apologise, if you have done this, but if you have not started a major petition, or even a group to support your views, then you are doing nothing more than me or anybody else on this forum. the views of one person means nothing to politicians
it strikes me that the most vocal seem to do nothing about the problem, even though they despise what the problem represents. i try to enjoy myself, play within the laws and see a positive side to all things - i do not have any reason to change the rules. the vocal ones however do, and yet most don't do anything at all - except of course whinge

**DJR-351** · 09-01-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

out of interest, what have you actually done - just letters? if so they are nothing more than posting on this forum. you allude to the fact that since i and many others do nothing and try and play within the law that we deserve something bad to happen to us. that is a bit unfair isn't it - when we were kids, most of us dreamed of changing the world - i had believed "if you were not looking for the solution, then you were part of the problem" for a day or so, until i was asked what the actual problem was. and then if the perceived problem to you is fixed, is it not creating a perceived problem for someone else. and surprisingly they will probably be more vocal about it
i apologise, if you have done this, but if you have not started a major petition, or even a group to support your views, then you are doing nothing more than me or anybody else on this forum. the views of one person means nothing to politicians
it strikes me that the most vocal seem to do nothing about the problem, even though they despise what the problem represents. i try to enjoy myself, play within the laws and see a positive side to all things - i do not have any reason to change the rules. the vocal ones however do, and yet most don't do anything at all - except of course whinge

I agree with you totaly about being vocal here and not actually doing something about it, that was one of my points, but...

Firstly, yes, all my contribution to this issue was a letter (i am after all in Qld) which was added to a number of others being collected together by persons in the west to be presented to the persons concerned. I heard about this issue before it was brought up on AFF, and the ball was already rolling on a organised petition, which is the one i added my name to, which i might add was phisically handed over...

As for your statement "the views of one person means nothing to politicians",
that is not quite correct and for me a bit confusing here. Yes i agree, if one solitary person standing alone on his soap box with zero backing from anyone else, then yes, obviously nothing will happen, but thats not to say you just shut up and go with the flow, to elude to the "hell what good is my one vote going to achive" goes against your democratic rights, and quite obviously here there is more than one person that has a problem with this particular law, so really that statement is a bit out of place...

As i allude to in my post #127, i am very much involved in a stouch with Maritime and Safety Queensland and a piece of introduced legislation, which was going to cost me and many others thousands of dollars through no fault of our own. My involvement in this started with one letter to my local MP voicing my concerns, who kindly replied stating he had had a number of letters concerning the same issue and would i mind if he forwarded mine to the others. Since then we have had plenty of meetings (which i attended when i could) between us and the MSQ bosses/MP voicing our concerns, and now that law is being re-written, or more correctly, excemptions have been implemented into the existing law, which is exactly what needs to be done to the one in question in this thread...

I'm sorry if you took offence to my comment about about needing to be in the same situation yourself, but at the same time i take offence to the "so what, to bad, thats the law attitude", and that in some way it is the best for every one that an innocent suffers, but until you have been caught up in something like this yourself (which as above i have) you have no idea, and i can guarantee if it was you, you would have a different view on things...

You have your opinion on this and i have mine, let's leave it at that, but i do encourage others if you feel strongly about something forums are not the place to try and get results, unless frustation is what you want...

csv8 · 09-01-2010, 04:46 PM

Police Minister Rob Johnson has conceded WA's new hoon laws need amending after they allowed a Greenwood doctor's $200,000 Lamborghini to be impounded after his mechanic was caught driving it without consent at speeds of up to 160 kmh on Wednesday.

Mr Johnson, who has faced heavy media backlash over his refusal to allow Patrick Nugawela use of his car, said his decision to review the laws when Parliament resumes was not in response to public pressure.

"If they want to say it's a backflip, it doesn't affect me one iota," he told 6PR radio this afternoon.

But he said innocent people such as Dr Nugawela could suffer if the current laws remained.

Mount Lawley man Leone Antonino Magistro, 53, from Delta Auto in Malaga, was charged with reckless driving over the incident and will appear in the Perth Magistrate's Court on February 2.

Wally · 09-01-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueluvr

If it was a hastily written law and one that allows this kind of thing to occur, of course the law is at fault, why do you think they just decided to rewrite it so it doesn't happen again.....because it had faults !!!!!

In this instance, I think the legislation regards it as the car's fault and it needs to be taught a lesson.

How come we haven't seen posts declaring "if everyone obeyed the rules there wouldn't be any need for them"?

I don't blame the politicians so much as the fat arsed public servants who have nothing better to do than think up ways to increase their productivity bonus' by lowering the bar they have to jump over :- flocks of sheep are easier to handle than stragglers, castrated sheep are much easier to handle than rams.

flappist · 09-01-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Police Minister Rob Johnson has conceded WA's new hoon laws need amending after they allowed a Greenwood doctor's $200,000 Lamborghini to be impounded after his mechanic was caught driving it without consent at speeds of up to 160 kmh on Wednesday.

Mr Johnson, who has faced heavy media backlash over his refusal to allow Patrick Nugawela use of his car, said his decision to review the laws when Parliament resumes was not in response to public pressure.

"If they want to say it's a backflip, it doesn't affect me one iota," he told 6PR radio this afternoon.

But he said innocent people such as Dr Nugawela could suffer if the current laws remained.

Mount Lawley man Leone Antonino Magistro, 53, from Delta Auto in Malaga, was charged with reckless driving over the incident and will appear in the Perth Magistrate's Court on February 2.

Police Minister Rob Johnson appeared to be walking funny with a size 10 boot print matching the Premier's Doc Martins on his bum.

AAP Reuter May 2011.
In the April 2011 Cabinet reshuffle the former Police Minister, then a short stint as Minister for dunny doors was relegated to the back bench after his stance on confiscating QANTAS jets from hoon pilots who exceeded 110km/h before leaving the ground........

seven7 · 09-01-2010, 08:27 PM

impound the drivers not the cars

gtxb67 · 10-01-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I agree with you totaly about . . . . . frustation is what you want...

i was not offended at all, by your post – your opinions seem to be thought out and based on real experiences, not 2nd hand emotion

i do not think anyone here has actually said the rule is correct. i would have been the closest saying i do not disagree with it, but i have never said i agree with it. the only real point I have tried to make is that the law was in place long before the mechanic took the car out. everyone knew the rules and because they were broken, the law was enforced

when it comes to fighting for something, there is a chance that you will spend more time and money in legal fees etc. than it is sometimes worth. that can have a negative effect on the average citizen. also regarding this impound law, because i am lost in my little world, i do not have the time and interest to analyse all of the facts, and therefore do not have the right to try and change a law based on a one sided opinion

once again, i am not suggesting the impound rule is right, but in your situation, it seems that the legislation was introduced after your interest in the area took place. to compare it to this situation totally, the new law must have come in after the mechanic took the lambo out for the test ride. while i have no knowledge of your situation, on the face of it, it would seem much more unfair than the lambo situation

yet again, i am not saying impounding the car is correct, just that the law requires it, and am trying to see some positives from that

i do not think our opinions are poles apart, probably a lot closer than some would think, but certainly we seem to agree on one fact. post after post complaining about the law does nothing – the time spent posting would be much better spent trying to do something about it as you have

Interceptor · 10-01-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

the idea of the law is to scare people into driving within the law.

has it worked? i think not.....

gtxb67 · 10-01-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interceptor

has it worked? i think not.....

maybe so, but have you or anyone else here heard of a customer car getting impounded yet
so far i only know of one - you will never be scared if there are no prior examples
it would be good to get some new arguments, not the same ones that have come up over the last week

blueluvr · 10-01-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

How come we haven't seen posts declaring "if everyone obeyed the rules there wouldn't be any need for them"

If everyone obeyed the rules, there would be no need for lawmakers/enforcers/lawyers/prisons etc, they would all be out of a job. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be accused of closing a whole industry down.......and we wouldn't get to see "cops" or "the force" on TV

durtyharry · 10-01-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seven7

impound the drivers not the cars

Im sure that has been considered, but introducing more otherwise uncorrupted people to the already overcrowded prison system was decided against.

I dont see anyone around this. Who the car belongs to shouldnt be a relevant criteria(unless its stolen) in deciding whether to impound it. Otherwise every hoon could register their car in their grand mother's name and escape impoundment.

its also there to make parents think twice about giving the keys to junior for the v8 for a night on the town with their mates.

To the lambo owner, its unfortunate, but it will send a big message to every workshop and whether you really want to leave your car there.

pauljh74 · 10-01-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Of course the law is/was at fault, why do you think it is being re-written...

Im involved in a stouch with Marine and Safety Queensland over a stupid piece of legislation, and thankfully after a long fight it's in the procsess of being re-written...

The problem with our legislators is that they are basicly lazy b******s, they don't study the ramifications or side effects of what law(s) they want to push through, which results in a blanket effect dragging innocents into the mess. And what makes it easier for these idiots is the majority of Aussies are quite prepared to drop there strides, bend over and take it and then parrot the usual "well what can you do, thats the law, accept it" @#$%^&g pathetic!!!

I pay the wages for these guys, they are accountable to me, and you!! and it's about time some of you realized that....

The problem is you get a few legislators whose egos are over inflated and fragile. They would rather pass laws that are flawed, ineffective and in some cases laws that punish the innocent occasionally than admit they are wrong. They get a bit drunk on power and think they are untouchable - until they get voted out.

Wally · 10-01-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueluvr

If everyone obeyed the rules, there would be no need for lawmakers/enforcers/lawyers/prisons etc, they would all be out of a job. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be accused of closing a whole industry down.......and we wouldn't get to see "cops" or "the force" on TV

LOL That really did make me laugh, well done.

Scaffy · 10-01-2010, 05:09 PM

The thought of 'Will I get my car back after the service today, or is there a chance it'll be impounded under hoon legislation?' shouldn't even come to mind when you're dropping your car off at the mechanics. In my opinion, to say that he should accept the loss of his car because he should have been aware of the law before he dropped it off is rediculous. I'm interested to know if anyone on here is full-bottle on traffic legislation in their state. I'm certainly not and I'd assume 99.9% of the other drivers on the road aren't either.

I don't think this case should be compared to parents lending the car to their children, nor lending your car to your mates. However, there is a difference between lending your car to someone and them taking it when you are unaware (like I'm sure some people on here would have done when they were kids and I'm sure there's an instance or 2 where someone has been at a party and passed out, to wake up to find their keys and car gone cos someone needed to get down to Maccas to pick up breakfast).

I'm glad to hear a change in the law will be made, but how do we know when they will be changing it and where can we see any drafts before it goes through? I believe it should be left in the hands of a magistrate to determine whether or not a car should be impounded in the event that the vehicle is not being driven by the owner. Laws that have been written in the way this one has are destined to punish innocent people, or people who are much less culpable than the punishment suggests.

durtharry - does a hoon know he is a hoon, before he or she becomes a hoon? I think the statement "every hoon could register their car in their grand mother's name and escape impoundment" is a bit silly.

I do agree about making parents think twice about lending the car to the kids and I don't think that should change. Same goes with lending your car to your mates.

I'm also interested to know where the figure of 30km from the workshop came from. I thought it might have been Delta when I heard where he was picked up. He would have been about 5km away from the workshop. Maybe whoever first came up with that figure assumed it was being serviced by Barbagello's in Osborne Park, but even then it's not 30km.

Bent8 · 10-01-2010, 05:15 PM

Saw this very same car outside Officeworks a few weeks back...

If I had the keys in my hand, I would be behind the wheel and driving enthusiastically in no time at all, even though I'm not a fan of V10's!

durtyharry · 11-01-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad

However, there is a difference between lending your car to someone and them taking it when you are unaware (like I'm sure some people on here would have done when they were kids and I'm sure there's an instance or 2 where someone has been at a party and passed out, to wake up to find their keys and car gone cos someone needed to get down to Maccas to pick up breakfast).

.

there is a difference? and if the owner isnt wanting to take responsibility for their own car, then they need to pass it on to the law as stealing. Cant have it both ways: "my mate took my car without my permission", "junior took the car while I was asleep", either lose the car or get them charged for stealing. Otherwise, just borrow someone elses car for impoundment free hooning.