Will the Holden brand survive?

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Anyone who believes that was the reason GM took their bat and ball and went home is seriously deluded.

If there was a good quid to be made then they'd have stayed. They were and are still losing money hand over fist. It was a business decision - nothing more.

Of course it was a business decision! The drover's dog knows that.
It was what contributed to that decision is what people are questioning.
Simple explanations are for those who blindly follow what they are given.

[ratter]

Did the unions step in to try to help the situation at all?

[borough]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Forgot to mention from my previous post earlier today relating to Ep 4 of End of an Era with Shane Jacobsen .. In relation to car sales with Free Trade Agreements our politicians negotiated as described in the video link I posted seems to have limited any chance to sell especially into Asia/Europe and such due to them leaving import tariffs for engines over a certain size. One expert said that it wasn't really a level playing field in the car industry ..Maybe our politicians could have negotiated the nuts and bolts in that regard of the FTA's a lot better .. Might not have been a catalyst to save the car industry forever but it certainly sped up it's demise by the look of it going by what they said .

John Howard threw the Australian car industry under the bus with the Thailand FTA.

For the Falcon/Territory the GFC and OneFord really spelt the end.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Simple explanations are for those who blindly follow what they are given.

Or for those for whom the scenario appears plainly obvious...

This is just my opinion Bill however I'm no expert, so I certainly respect your begging to differ.

GM Has pulled out of RHD production markets all over the world - some of the locations with labour costs way lower than Australia, so we had no chance in the big scheme of things.

What made you think they were ever going to stay here? Mitsubishi, Ford and Toyota could obviously see the writing on the wall as well. It was probably okay in the days when those makes were pretty much all we bought in any sort of volume, but now there are many others all trying for a slice of the same pie.

Our domestic market is just too small. With the other three manufacturers gone, the component manufacturers who sold their products to all four suddenly had serious economies of scale issues as well.

The undeniable fact is that it cost way too much to make generic products here if you're trying to be competitive in the world market. Australia is a comparatively expensive place to live so there is no way we can work for what Asian production line workers are paid, and nor should we.

Holden were not building what Australians wanted to buy anyway, so they were only marking time in the end. I would have loved to have seen the Australian automotive industry remain, but if you can't make a business case for something then there's not much point persevering.

As I say though, I'm no expert.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

.

Our domestic market is just too small. With the other three manufacturers gone, the component manufacturers who sold their products to all four suddenly had serious economies of scale issues as well.

Also from a supplier perspective OEMs have ridiculous requirements where they demand the earth, want to pay nothing and hold you hostage.

Further the refusal of the Vehicle Builders to:
a) Provide a defined minimum contract period against which investment may be reasonably amortised.

b) Fair and timely consideration to price adjustments for commodities priced on a global basis. E.g. Oil derivatives.

c) Recognition of the impact of non-achievement of predicted volumes from the tender / contract stage and the consequential affect on cost recovery for tooling set up and investment amortisation.

d) Refusal to assist with supply chain management of component inventory exposure caused by wildly inaccurate forward estimates.

E) Collective purchasing of commodities to assist local suppliers in hedging steel and oil prices.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...yqCG2KEYjdXpoa

I recently rejected an OE customer wanting to purchase from us, their agreement was 60 pages and wanted to hold us to ridiculous terms so I politely informed them to GAGF.

They can sink a business if you agree to their terms and it goes south, the margins are way too low and they're a real pain in the *** customer.

[ratter]

So pretty much like many consumers

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ratter

So pretty much like many consumers

No, nothing like normal consumers actually.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also from a supplier perspective OEMs have ridiculous requirements where they demand the earth, want to pay nothing and hold you hostage.

Sounds a lot like Coles and Woolies

[CyberWasp]

The Aussie car industry is still not dead.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

The Aussie car industry is still not dead.

image

Some Mod should remove that photo.............

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by ratter

Did the unions step in to try to help the situation at all?

Yes, but generally speaking I do not expect this to change entrenched opinions.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-...oposal/4884158

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ratter

Did the unions step in to try to help the situation at all?

The union stepped in plenty of times over the years but I wouldn't call it helping the situation...

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by prydey

The union stepped in plenty of times over the years but I wouldn't call it helping the situation...

oooh be careful Rob, you'll strike a nerve with some on here with that kind of talk...

[csv8]

Former high-ranking executive Jim Bunnell – who helped close 2000 showrooms in the US during the Global Financial Crisis, and subsequently wound-up the company’s operations in Europe, India and South Africa – has been appointed to oversee the termination of 203 Holden dealerships across the country and manage the impact on up to 9000 employees.

Mr Bunnell (pictured below), a 39-year veteran of General Motors, has been lured out of retirement for the Holden assignment.

He had finished up with General Motors in July 2018; one of his last roles with the company was as executive director of “dealer rationalisation” (car industry speak for closing showrooms), according to his LinkedIn profile.

A confidential bulletin sent this week to Holden dealers said Mr Bunnell has been appointed to “oversee the successful wind down of Holden vehicle sales”.

Mr Bunnell, named executive director of Holden Transition, will report to Holden boss Kristian Aquilina.

The Holden bulletin said Mr Bunnell has “extensive experience at General Motors overseeing orderly and respectful transitions with other brands across the globe, including Chevrolet Europe, India and South Africa”.


He also “supported the changes to the North American dealer network post-bankruptcy in 2009. We welcome Jim to the Holden family”.

During the Global Financial Crisis a decade ago, when General Motors filed for bankruptcy, Mr Bunnell was instrumental in reducing the company’s North American network of 5900 dealers to 3600.

The cutbacks included shutting the showrooms of discontinued General Motors brands such as Saturn, Saab, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Hummer.

When asked by US trade journal Automotive News in May 2009 how General Motors would decide which dealers would go and which ones would stay, Mr Bunnell said: “Certainly we’re going to comply with all of the state laws. We’re very confident that the mechanism we used is a very good and very accurate reflection of the dealer's performance.”

Holden dealers claim the compensation being offered by General Motors to terminate their franchise agreements more than two-and-a-half years before they were due to be renewed is “insufficient” and likely to be rejected by most if not all showroom owners.

For its part, by the end of this week Holden says it has only put formal offers to 40 per cent of its national network of dealerships.

Less than 24 hours after the Federal Government announced a Senate Inquiry into the Holden shutdown, the car maker has shed some light on the compensation package which, it says, goes well beyond its minimum obligations.


“Holden is doing the right thing by its dealers during this difficult time,” a company spokesman said. “We believe the offer is fair. In most cases Holden dealers will receive compensation a factor of four times the average Holden new car profit per unit of all dealerships over the 2017-2019 fiscal years.”

Holden says its compensation formula is “applied consistently for all dealers and covers reasonable earning expectations from the new Holden sales department over the remaining portion of the Dealer Agreement”.

Dealers also have the opportunity to continue as authorised Holden service outlets, which it said is “a consistently very profitable part of their businesses”.

Meantime, anyone wanting to grab a bargain as Holden clears remaining stock may already be too late.

Following a leaked bulletin that showed discounts of $7500 to $17,500 would be offered across the range from March 1, many Holden dealers say they only have “weeks not months” worth of stock remaining. Most are expected to be cleaned out by June 30, the end of the financial year. https://www.caradvice.com.au/831181/...-close-holden/

[jpd80]

Following a leaked bulletin that showed discounts of $7500 to $17,500 would be offered across the range from March 1, many Holden dealers say they only have “weeks not months” worth of stock remaining. Most are expected to be cleaned out by June 30, the end of the financial year. https://www.caradvice.com.au/831181/...-close-holden/
While it's not surprising, it's clear that GM has been planning this for a while as stock levels are not that high.

Maybe it's good that all those discounted Colorado's find a home quickly before the second half of the year.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Following a leaked bulletin that showed discounts of $7500 to $17,500 would be offered across the range from March 1, many Holden dealers say they only have “weeks not months” worth of stock remaining. Most are expected to be cleaned out by June 30, the end of the financial year. https://www.caradvice.com.au/831181/...-close-holden/
While it's not surprising, it's clear that GM has been planning this for a while as stock levels are not that high.

Maybe it's good that all those discounted Colorado's find a home quickly before the second half of the year.

The dealer in CQ have no Commodores in their inventory. The do have 84 Holdens, 8 Chevs and 4 HSV. There are 57 Colorados, and average of 4 of each of the others.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Sounds a lot like Coles and Woolies

A bloke I know is a supplier to colesworth, he has to pay THEM $15k per year to maintain his vendor number to keep selling to them.
Don’t get me started on Bunnings, although to most aussies they can do no wrong cos, you know they have a sausage sizzle...Aussie,Aussie,Aussie

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by borough

John Howard threw the Australian car industry under the bus with the Thailand FTA.

For the Falcon/Territory the GFC and OneFord really spelt the end.

Started with the Button Plan enforced by Keating, the first FTA and cuts in tariffs in 1985.
Even Keating in his autobiography says he was proud of what he did to the Australian Automotive Industry and had he remained PM for another term, he would have got rid of all subsidies.

The hard part is, the unions backed the Button plan and the tariff cuts.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Started with the Button Plan enforced by Keating, the first FTA and cuts in tariffs in 1985.
Even Keating in his autobiography says he was proud of what he did to the Australian Automotive Industry and had he remained PM for another term, he would have got rid of all subsidies.

The hard part is, the unions backed the Button plan and the tariff cuts.

Exactly, this was when Hawke & Keating opened up Australia to globalisation.

[GTLEGEND]

Is it just me, but I am really struggling to accept the fact that we as a nation are no longer manufacturing vehicles here, be it Ford or Holden, the fact that Falcon and Commodore (the Aussie built ones) are no more, the fact that Holden is no more. Its like our soul has been ripped to shreds and not long after we really started producing quality vehicles.

Did not think it would hit me this hard!!

Have to admit that End of an Era video that was posted early brought a slight tear to the eye.

Just so hard to believe, even with all the writings on the wall.

Yes we still have Mustang, but its just not the same.

My favourite Ford ad below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTSiL5Fdcw

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Is it just me, but I am really struggling to accept the fact that we as a nation are no longer manufacturing vehicles here, be it Ford or Holden, the fact that Falcon and Commodore (the Aussie built ones) are no more, the fact that Holden is no more. Its like our soul has been ripped to shreds and not long after we really started producing quality vehicles.

Did not think it would hit me this hard!!

Have to admit that End of an Era video that was posted early brought a slight tear to the eye.

Just so hard to believe, even with all the writings on the wall.

Yes we still have Mustang, but its just not the same.

My favourite Ford ad below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTSiL5Fdcw

Australian car buyers did the damage by buying imports, just as Australians bought imported TV's, washing machines, cameras, tools, clothing etc, etc.
As the old saying goes, "There ain't no use crying over spilled milk." Perhaps if we took more care and not spill any, we would have a full glass?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Australian car buyers did the damage by buying imports, just as Australians bought imported TV's, washing machines, cameras, tools, clothing etc, etc.
As the old saying goes, "There ain't no use crying over spilled milk." Perhaps if we took more care and not spill any, we would have a full glass?

Rubbish. Name another country the size (population) of Australia, surrounded by water, that has it's own brand of vehicle and an auto manufacturing industry. We should be grateful we built cars here for as long as we did.

[minheim]

Imagine if we developed a truely Australian owned manfacturer in the 1949 and actively pursued exports rather than beholden to foreign owned entities. Maybe we could have been South Korea of the region exporting to right and left hand drive markets. We had all the raw materials and the brains.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Anyone who believes that was the reason GM took their bat and ball and went home is seriously deluded.

If there was a good quid to be made then they'd have stayed. They were and are still losing money hand over fist. It was a business decision - nothing more.

It was the straw that broke the camels back. Holden had a plan but needed the investment. The goading by the libs just showed them they couldn't care less about keeping Holden manufacturing here, and led to GM making the decision to stop Commodore production.

It wasn't the sole reason, but it contributed to it.

[jpd80]

Perhaps we’re looking at post WWII with 2020 eyes,
the government was dead broke and all that they could
do was encourage an established manufacturer to take
a chance on Australia

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It was the straw that broke the camels back. Holden had a plan but needed the investment. The goading by the libs just showed them they couldn't care less about keeping Holden manufacturing here, and led to GM making the decision to stop Commodore production.

It wasn't the sole reason, but it contributed to it.

What our governments failed to understand was that in order to have a car industry, you have to support it, every other country with a car industry does.
All of those years of break even or loss meant that all the money spent through local manufacturing mostly stayed here even without companies recording profits

So now instead of keeping $3 billion-$4 bilion per year of business activity here,
we let the whole $30 billion / year go out of the country and build up the wealth of others.
But hey, pee got their cheap cars once the locals were killed off.... not.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What our governments failed to understand was that in order to have a car industry, you have to support it, every other country with a car industry does.
All of those years of break even or loss meant that all the money spent through local manufacturing mostly stayed here even without companies recording profits

So now instead of keeping $3 billion-$4 bilion per year of business activity here,
we let the whole $30 billion / year go out of the country and build up the wealth of others.
But hey, pee got their cheap cars once the locals were killed off.... not.

The government got back what they put in many times over in terms of tax dollars from the companies and workers. Still blows my mind that those lib fat cats were basically laughing at Holden wanting some more investment. No doubt they were happy to see it go cause of their union hatred. Imagine if it was a big dollar white collar industry like the banking sector. They would have throw buckets of cash at their fat cat mates.

[hackney]

Think this thread is “dead in the water”,just like the Holden brand.Really no point commenting or “flogging a dead horse”.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by minheim

Imagine if we developed a truely Australian owned manfacturer in the 1949 and actively pursued exports rather than beholden to foreign owned entities. Maybe we could have been South Korea of the region exporting to right and left hand drive markets. We had all the raw materials and the brains.

I've often wondered the same thing. A country full of all the resources needed to manufacture and we somehow manage to not support that and then sell off our mines to overseas interests.

[minheim]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Perhaps we’re looking at post WWII with 2020 eyes,
the government was dead broke and all that they could
do was encourage an established manufacturer to take
a chance on Australia

Maybe there is a bit of that. However Germany, Japan and South Korea all facing nation rebuilding after war (and in the case of the two Asian countries little natural resources) managed to build viable automotive industries. Indeed South Korea is big on many fronts ship building, electronics, etc. We however wasted the opportunities of the 1950s and 1960s and I suspect a lot of that blame rests on the shoulders of the Liberal and Country parties of that era and Pig Iron Bob Menzies.