Difference between S/C 8 and Turbo Barra

[arronm]

To put it in perspective, at racewars I went 240 kph with F6 400rwkw. To go that speed a supercharged xr8 needed 466rwkw.

[JC]

Originally Posted by arronm

To put it in perspective, at racewars I went 240 kph with F6 400rwkw. To go that speed a supercharged xr8 needed 466rwkw.

What was required for you to hit 400rwkw, and what was required for the XR8 to hit 466? I'd guess at similar mods probably.....

[arronm]

https://www.fordforums.com.au/vbport...php?t=11467472

That car runs on E85. I was on 98.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by arronm

They had kilometers of road. If 6th would have helped they would have used it.

They would not have been happy with 297. The goal was over 300.

The car just couldn't do it.

PS- that car run just past 7000rpm, does the factory car rev this high???

So could run to 7k in 5th. Car just couldnt go any faster...

297kph in 5th gear is just over 6400rpm so he was probably bouncing off the limiter...

The same speed with the ZF auto in 5th would show 6000rpm and 300kph would have been reached without a problem.

[arronm]

That GTF may have had a raised rev limit. Watch the Video at 1.39. Revs post 7k. Remember it's a 8k tacho.

Just because a car has a theoretical speed doesn't mean it can reach it.

I reckon 297 was all a GTF has. That is 187mph.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by arronm

To put it in perspective, at racewars I went 240 kph with F6 400rwkw. To go that speed a supercharged xr8 needed 466rwkw.

For pure acceleration in a given distance, one can see- given the fat and non linear "hump" torque and power band of a blown barra, that to achieve similar acceleration a Miami with a linear power and torque curve- will need to achieve significantly higher peak power -because the linear power curve needs to be dragged up.

But pure top speed- no limit on distance to achieve- it is all about power. If you have a Miami with 400 rwkw and a Barra with 380 rwkw on a top speed run the Miami would do it-assuming unlimited roadway, assuming each car has optimum gearing for their respective peak power, and assuming that the cars have identical wind resistance drag at play.

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'd love the joy of a SC V8 Miami of course but our own tried and tested Barra Turbo is a sweet and bloody quick donk and as for idling like a truck engine..Where'd you get that from . None of the Barra Turbo or even N/A's I've ever experienced sound anything like that.

Do you reckon FPV would muck around with a turbo 6 and put their reputation on the line with it if they thought it wasn't up to it .

Short and definitive answer is NO.

Your post reads a bit like sour grapes to me .

Sitting in the 6 the engine idles poorly causing vibration in the cabin. No such issues with the 8.
The only pro of the 6 is torque and given the boost the 8 can beat that too and still drive and sound better.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by JC

I'm not sure how you think there was no R&D on the Barra 6. It went from a 4.1 crossflow 6, through iterations of EA 3.9, increase up to 4.0 for EB through to AU going from dizzy to coilpack, and then DOHC 4.0 from BA. At the same time, they chucked a turbo on it, and in that form it went from 240 to 270 to 310 to 325 kw in final FGX Sprint guise - each step along the way would have cost millions in R&D; maybe not in engine casting changes (although there was some of that), but definitely in wages of engineers etc. It's an evolution of 50 years from the engine that started in the 60s.....

$40M on making the coyote into the Miami would be a pittance in comparison.

More like evolution than revolution on the six though . You could say that for pretty much every long term engine base . The single biggest revolution to the six was the Turbo in 2002 but going from crossflow
to OHC to DOHC and multi point fuel injection would probably be somewhere in between evolution to revolution.

No matter what way you package it the six ended up as a truly remarkable , durable and strong engine that's powered the bulk of Ford cars in this country for a long time and the last Barra turbo's were /are something to be proud of .

Said it before and I'll say it again , not much point directly comparing the Barra to the Miami because they're very different beasts and why many of us diehard Ford fans were blessed with a different choice for our performance requirements .

Be happy we have them both , not decry one or the other . PLEASE.....

[78xcgxl]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

Sitting in the 6 the engine idles poorly causing vibration in the cabin. No such issues with the 8.
The only pro of the 6 is torque and given the boost the 8 can beat that too and still drive and sound better.

That 6 must of not been running right. All the Barras ( have 4 barra powered cars in the family + plus all the others i have been in) the idle is soo smooth you can't even tell if the engine is running or not when sitting in the car at idle.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

That 6 must of not been running right. All the Barras ( have 4 barra powered cars in the family + plus all the others i have been in) the idle is soo smooth you can't even tell if the engine is running or not when sitting in the car at idle.

Absolutely , I can barely tell mine is idling unless the air con fan is below two on the fan speed scale other than the tacho of course . Certainly no vibration whatsoever..Baby bum smooth..

[shaness8]

A mildly tuned Barra makes max torque between 3500-3800 and max Kw at 5200 its all over by 6k.

On the road between 3-4k the Barra is a weapon with its massive torque not much can match it .

The area where the 8 shines is its ability to rev higher in the 6-7k, both engines can make the same KW but at different rpm, anything under 5k the Barra will destroy the s/c 8.

[ratter]

It’s all dependent on how boost is delivered

[chrisandsharon]

12.13/116mph stock F6 - Geezuz shaness8 not bad. That’s bog stock yeah?
Just read your signature. Brilliant
Apologies for the quick detour.

[shaness8]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

12.13/116mph stock F6 - Geezuz shaness8 not bad. That’s bog stock yeah?
Just read your signature. Brilliant
Apologies for the quick detour.

Stock with K&N filter in it

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

That 6 must of not been running right. All the Barras ( have 4 barra powered cars in the family + plus all the others i have been in) the idle is soo smooth you can't even tell if the engine is running or not when sitting in the car at idle.

I’ve owned 4 turbo 6 cars and 4 nas and all have the idle issue, however the turbos are worse.

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by shaness8

The area where the 8 shines is its ability to rev higher in the 6-7k, both engines can make the same KW but at different rpm, anything under 5k the Barra will destroy the s/c 8.

An 8 running 400+ rwkw makes killer torque from below 2000 rpm. Much more streetable than a 400rwkw 6. Sure the 6 is fun but it’s also stupid at the same time. The sprint 6 is two seconds slower around circuits as tested by motor mag and for good reason the 8 is just a much better engine.

[ratter]

Again from my customer the engineer, he said early ford testing showed the sprint 8 had better turn in and mid corner speed compared to the sprint turbo, but the sprint turbo had more exit speed

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by ratter

Again from my customer the engineer, he said early ford testing showed the sprint 8 had better turn in and mid corner speed compared to the sprint turbo, but the sprint turbo had more exit speed

Yes- but as Geesman said, the blown 8 was faster than the blown 6 on a track as tested. The 8 got higher speeds on the longer straights, on some tighter exists the 6 punched out harder but ran out of legs on the straights.

Was an interesting test, with graphs showing the speeds the 8 and 6 reached at different parts of track, but end result was the 8 was faster round the track, and not by a gnats ball hair either....

[arronm]

What I have read is the extra weight of the V8 upsets the handling in the corners when compared to the 6 .

I feel the linear power curve of the V8 would make it easier to drive at the track once the power is turned up.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Yes- but as Geesman said, the blown 8 was faster than the blown 6 on a track as tested. The 8 got higher speeds on the longer straights, on some tighter exists the 6 punched out harder but ran out of legs on the straights.

Was an interesting test, with graphs showing the speeds the 8 and 6 reached at different parts of track, but end result was the 8 was faster round the track, and not by a gnats ball hair either....

Have you thought that quicker corners times can help make a car quicker around a track?
It helps just like faster top speeds can help

[sixman]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

An 8 running 400+ rwkw makes killer torque from below 2000 rpm. Much more streetable than a 400rwkw 6. Sure the 6 is fun but it’s also stupid at the same time. The sprint 6 is two seconds slower around circuits as tested by motor mag and for good reason the 8 is just a much better engine.

The same motor mag that rates the vf2 SSV a much better car than the figx xr8?

[arronm]

Greater corner speed has a greater influence on lap times than speeds on the straight

A few ks extra corner speed will reduce lap times greater than a extra 10-15kph on the straights.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by sixman

The same motor mag that rates the vf2 SSV a much better car than the figx xr8?

Let's not bring the VF SSVR into it. Cause once you drive one you can see why they are so quick at the track.

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by sixman

The same motor mag that rates the vf2 SSV a much better car than the figx xr8?

It pretty much is. It’s also faster.

[Geeseman]

Originally Posted by arronm

Greater corner speed has a greater influence on lap times than speeds on the straight

A few ks extra corner speed will reduce lap times greater than a extra 10-15kph on the straights.

Pretty much all the motor reviewers said the sprint 8 was far better than the 6. The auto is also a dated trans and the 8 is available in manual which posted a better time. /end of debate

[adz137]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

Pretty much all the motor reviewers said the sprint 8 was far better than the 6. The auto is also a dated trans and the 8 is available in manual which posted a better time. /end of debate

Haha what are you smoking, i'll have some please. Pretty much every review i've read has given the sprint 6 a better score.

This is from motor magazine who gave the xr8 sprint 3.5 and the xr6 sprint 4.0.

The XR6 Sprint pips the XR8 not just by one token newton metre, but also by price – and it seems performance, the six-pot Falcon as fast in a straight line but the sweeter handler.

It’s an awkward truth we’ll look to confirm in a future issue of the mag before the Falcons are gone forever, but while both Sprints will go down as greats, the best performance Falcon ever could be a six.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

Pretty much all the motor reviewers said the sprint 8 was far better than the 6. The auto is also a dated trans and the 8 is available in manual which posted a better time. /end of debate

I'll tell you what Geeseman! How about you stick a Super Charged 5Litre V8. In your Toyota Aurion and see how fast it goes.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Geeseman

It pretty much is. It’s also faster.

Dejavu

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

I'll tell you what Geeseman! How about you stick a Super Charged 5Litre V8. In your Toyota Aurion and see how fast it goes.

Its always a emotional subject yet most are on the same team, go figure.
I have had disagreements with Geeseman in the past and more so our far west ol mate arronm gets his jollys antaganising people via the keyboard that gets him off like this thread due to his motor preference, his posting most times is negative.
Those not in the know geeseman has had fairly high modded Turbos and the last he had was a Miami as well so he is talking from his own experience as well, just as all of you !
He's not the green man either.

Geeseman is not HULK try new member Fiji more like it just an observation?