Holden to make major announcement to staff today

[fte50]

Originally Posted by mr smith

I agree it should have been highlighted at the EBA negotiations, but I bet the EBA has a clause in there to cover for a "downturn"

Downturns have always equated to production downdays, exhausting RDOs, A/L, LSL then Voluntary Seperation Pkg followed by forced tap on the shoulder. Never though has it been a pay freeze/cut.

[Bossxr8]

Holden are just a stupid company.

They overspend on VF, pour millions into non essential marketing like V8 Supercars, NRL and AFL sponsorships, give big pay rises to workers less than a year ago, and now they cry poor. Is this company run by a pack of morons. I guess that's what you get when you are trained at the "GM school of keep spending until your bankrupt as the government will bail you out".

If I was working there I would be demanding management take responsibility for their dumb actions and take significant pay cuts before I even considered one for myself. If they copped 10% pay cuts across the board it's not like they would even notice it. 10% for a production worker would have huge consequences in terms of getting by.

I think all this talk is either because the Libs are going to cut some funding, so they are trying to get extra cash from Juliar now before the Libs get in, or the order bank for the VF is nowhere near where they expected it to be and they are panicking.

I said before that Holden have rocks in their heads if they think VF is going to be a massive seller, as the large market is dead and it won't stop people buying small cars, SUV's and dual cab utes.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If I was working there I would be demanding management take responsibility for their dumb actions and take significant pay cuts before I even considered one for myself. If they copped 10% pay cuts across the board it's not like they would even notice it. 10% for a production worker would have huge consequences in terms of getting by.

I love how old mate dodged the question about whether exec pay was being frozen or cut with some generic nonsense like "everyone is doing everything they can".

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I said before that Holden have rocks in their heads if they think VF is going to be a massive seller, as the large market is dead and it won't stop people buying small cars, SUV's and dual cab utes.

Lets just hope for the sake of our fellow brothers and our nation your 1000% wrong.

[stazza]

I hate to contribute to a Holden thread on a Ford forum, but what do they expect? They have been far too ambitious with the VF.

Firstly, the styling is horrendous, they've completely alienated their die hard fans (take a look on any Holden forum, or, dare I say Facebook). The interior is horrible. It's tacky as hell and looks cheap. It's SO cluttered. One would almost have a collision while trying to find what they are looking for.

Secondly, it's evident they are targeting the euro market (comparing performance specs to Porsches, BMW's etc...). They have bitten off more than they can chew. The fact is, anyone who already buys euro cars, simply is not going to buy a Holden. Holdens aren't synonymous with quality and excellence. Sure they can bolt on all the goodies, but no matter the price, that audience simply would not see Holden as a quality car, certainly not if they are used to driving euro cars. Who would buy a Holden after owning BMW's etc..?

Thirdly, the GTS - I hate to refer to Facebook again, but EVERY single argument between Ford and Holden, the new GTS is mentioned by the latter. 90% of the people that blab on about it cannot afford it. Not once have I seen ANY of the new HSV range mentioned, JUST the GTS. Because while the rest of the range has all the gadgets, they barely have any performance tweaks. And that's all that matters to the die hard fans. Everyone knows the SV pack is a scam, anyone can get an OTR and tune for cheaper. They've priced the GTS too high, and everyone will see the rest of the HSV range as under performers, whether they are or not.

And lastly, how many models do they really need in the HSV range? It's ridiculous.

They've alienated the fans with the horrible styling, while trying to capture an audience that simply wouldn't give a ****.

[metalmania]

Holden are preparing for their exit from Australian manufacturing.
If the workers take a pay cut they will regret it. The plan is to slash wages and then when they finally leave the workers redundancy package will be far less.
I should know i worked for a for a tyre manufacturing company and it tried to do the same thing even though everyone knew quite well that they would stop manufacturing tyres in Australia which they eventually did.

[jpblue1000]

Ill point to my earlier post.
Only the workers and representatives really know whats going on within GMH, and only they can do something about it. Dig out the rot through one voice, band together in solidarity to fix the problem, which Im guessing, having read a fair bit about the Australian Automotive manufacturing industry, goes fairly deeply and wide spread. If Indeed the disparity between execs and workers pay is a factor of ten then demand a change (Im assuming larger cuts to management as a percentage here and not an increase in workers pay to balance it)
If the unions are causing excessive pay increases or costs ultimately jeopardising the viability of the business, in which the workers want to continue to work then do something about that. If the government is not doing the best ( not talking subsidies but other action/inaction) then speak as one voice rather than all these opposing agenda driven lobbyists.
I believe there is a solution but needs a planned and conscientious attempt by all involved, a Bipartisan approach with all stakeholders working towards one goal, something that appears lacking.
Clarity, transparency and honesty is required by all stakeholders and as part subsidisers the taxpayer should demand it.

JP

[fte50]

Nice thought in the ideal world, but the only goal GM is working towards now is its imminent closure after it has saved as much cash as it possibly can, 'conditioned' the public, and then go on to continue its manufacturing/assembly operations in their GM Daewoo plants.

The only part to remain as Holden as we know it will be the R&D Engineering & Powertrain facilities for GM Global design.

[Cheese3]

An how long can R & D last without building a local vehicle, international harvester was the same here in Geelong. Manufacturing closed and R & D stayed open for a few years more but didn't last.

[nstg8a]

I read a grunt files post on Facebook where they explained some of the pay hierarchy at Holden.

Basically management taking a pay cut means nothing to holdens bottom line, anyone on pay scale ten or higher is paid by gm na, it doesn't come from holdens budget.
It's basically only production staff wages that affect car build costs.

Dunno if legit or not....

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by stazza

I hate to contribute to a Holden thread on a Ford forum, but what do they expect? They have been far too ambitious with the VF.

Ambitious? How so? What do you expect them to do build the same crap as the locals have done for the last few decades? They're looking at world markets not just a few local sales, to get onto the world stage you have to compete with other cars that already have a name for themselves.
Couple that with the fact they are smart and using GM's parts bin instead of re inventing the wheel or putting it in the "too hard to do" pile.

Ambitious? I am more thinking about bloody time.

Firstly, the styling is horrendous, they've completely alienated their die hard fans (take a look on any Holden forum, or, dare I say Facebook). The interior is horrible. It's tacky as hell and looks cheap. It's SO cluttered. One would almost have a collision while trying to find what they are looking for.

Your opinion so that holds no weight, especially considering your first few words.

Secondly, it's evident they are targeting the euro market (comparing performance specs to Porsches, BMW's etc...). They have bitten off more than they can chew. The fact is, anyone who already buys euro cars, simply is not going to buy a Holden. Holdens aren't synonymous with quality and excellence. Sure they can bolt on all the goodies, but no matter the price, that audience simply would not see Holden as a quality car, certainly not if they are used to driving euro cars. Who would buy a Holden after owning BMW's etc..?

Only time will how they go but at least they're going for the export market.
The rest of your post is just your biased and opinionated rubbish with nothing to back your claim up.

Thirdly, the GTS - I hate to refer to Facebook again, but EVERY single argument between Ford and Holden, the new GTS is mentioned by the latter. 90% of the people that blab on about it cannot afford it. Not once have I seen ANY of the new HSV range mentioned, JUST the GTS. Because while the rest of the range has all the gadgets, they barely have any performance tweaks. And that's all that matters to the die hard fans. Everyone knows the SV pack is a scam, anyone can get an OTR and tune for cheaper. They've priced the GTS too high, and everyone will see the rest of the HSV range as under performers, whether they are or not.

And lastly, how many models do they really need in the HSV range? It's ridiculous.

They've alienated the fans with the horrible styling, while trying to capture an audience that simply wouldn't give a ****.

Oh please get over yourself, if Ford offered a car like the GTS you'd be all over it, shouting out to all how good Ford is.
The GTS is the HSV hero car and whether or not the VF performs like it does on paper doesn't matter, they went all out and produced something that has got people talking and other opening their wallets.

Barely any performance tweaks? Are you kidding me?
what's wrong with a large range of cars? hmm??? Aren't people complaining Ford cut their range? Aren't people here complaining the FPV range was too small? That is should have wagons, Territories, etc?

Like I said styling is subjective and with your bias your opinion on the matter means diddly squat.

[XD 351 Ute]

Mismanagement of some of our Australian businesses has a lot to answer for.
There are some that will be using the carbon tax as an excuse for shutting up shop in the near future.......

When in reality they couldn't run a chook raffle.

Ed

[stevz]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Didn't know they were CKD. If they go CKD only they will still be on borrowed time like NZ was in the 90s.

Cruze is not CKD as suggested. Far from it. Sheetmetal is stamped here and many other components are made by local suppliers.
Some people should get their facts straight before posting blatant misinformation.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by stevz

Cruze is not CKD as suggested. Far from it. Sheetmetal is stamped here and many other components are made by local suppliers.
Some people should get their facts straight before posting blatant misinformation.

and yet its still illegal to slap that logo in your avatar on it. australian made and made in australia should never be confused to mean the same thing.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by stevz

Cruze is not CKD as suggested. Far from it. Sheetmetal is stamped here and many other components are made by local suppliers.
Some people should get their facts straight before posting blatant misinformation.

Inferior Sheetmetal imported from China, stamped here, at the detriment of Bluescope .

[P6LTD351]

This is all part of the dance. GM have already made their decision to pull out of Australia, they just haven't announced it.

Feel for the workers, but it is inevitable.

[janddbone]

Basic manufacturing workers, should not be paid at 50% more than the minimum wage. It is no wonder costs are so high... We need a lower minimum wage and more jobs for blokes on brooms like the old days...

[fte50]

I think you underestimate the 'basic manufacturing worker'. Many today within the car industry giants are educated, and those that weren't have performed required inhouse training (VBC & N classifications Nationally accredited) where they are flexible & adaptable to most parts of the business giving the employer huge flexibility advantages.
Remember also, the 'basic' people at this level are also the main value added part of the process.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

Basic manufacturing workers, should not be paid at 50% more than the minimum wage. It is no wonder costs are so high... We need a lower minimum wage and more jobs for blokes on brooms like the old days...

Why just single out "basic manufacturing workers" - how about their management who get paid Tasmanias yearly budget in a months salary :-)

[burnz]

Originally Posted by fte50

Inferior Sheetmetal imported from China, stamped here, at the detriment of Bluescope .

all holden steel comes from "one steel", period.

[borough]

It is time to face facts that it too expensive due to labour costs to manufacture cars here anymore. We should be working with Ford and Holden to keep the design and engineering here. Let the manufacturing go to where it is cheaper, we have let that happen with just about everything else.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by prydey

and yet its still illegal to slap that logo in your avatar on it. australian made and made in australia should never be confused to mean the same thing.

Name a car that is worthy of that logo then? Most here regard Falcon and Territory as true blue Aussie yet they are full of imported components. What about the "all Aussie" I6 which has a Mexican cast head? So many hypocrites here who are happy to bend the truth and invent their own facts when it is convenient for them.

[GQ_Smooth]

A manufacturing worker getting paid $65K-$85K per year is not why Australians aren't buying Falcons/Commodores.

Do I believe they are overpaid? (yes), do I believe paying them less will fix things? (no).

[desGT]

Originally Posted by stazza

...They've priced the GTS too high, and everyone will see the rest of the HSV range as under performers, whether they are or not. And lastly, how many models do they really need in the HSV range? It's ridiculous. They've alienated the fans with the horrible styling, while trying to capture an audience that simply wouldn't give a ****.

What a totally uninformed and self biased rant (all of your comments). For example...

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/hol...-1226658988528

“Dealers have sold out their first allocation of the GTS sedan despite it costing close to $100,000 on-the-road”

I do not think that price is too bad considering the machine that underpins it and the "on-the-road" cost of it compared to other HSV and FPV vehicles.

Also, not "EVERYONE". Perhaps unfortunately, I am looking at the HSV Tourer (need something bigger than my current GT for carrying equipment - though still musing). At least I am (still) buying Aus manufactured cars.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by burnz

all holden steel comes from "one steel", period.

Not true.

Suggest you findout how much Korean and Japanese steel they use.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

A manufacturing worker getting paid $65K-$85K per year is not why Australians aren't buying Falcons/Commodores.

You've got to be bloody s***ting me right?

Isn't half the work done by robots anyway?

If car manufacturing wasn't dying in the **** here I'd quit tomorrow and get a job doing that.

[Chopped]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3784528.htm

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by stevz

So many hypocrites here who are happy to bend the truth and invent their own facts when it is convenient for them.

Isnt that what you do as well?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Chopped

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3784528.htm

Read that artical stevz, componant suppliers state that Fords local content was the greatest.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

You've got to be bloody s***ting me right?

Isn't half the work done by robots anyway?

If car manufacturing wasn't dying in the **** here I'd quit tomorrow and get a job doing that.

Their base hourly rate, isn't what's excessive (although it is on the high side, but on the most part justifiable), it's the overtime expectation that is ingrained in some people, along with excessive RDO's, overly generous sick leave entitlements, excessive break periods and inability to get rid of certain workers that are detrimental to profitability (people who deliberately sabotage vehicles on the production line so they get paid overtime to fix it).

The unions should be actively trying to weed these people out rather than defending them. They are making the majority of dedicated employees pay for their inaction.

On the other side, knowing what I know, I wouldn't trust what a HR manager would say if their life depended on it. The whole environment is far to confrontational, the distrust and animosity between factions makes genuine co-operation and open dialogue unworkable.

Ford Australia did one of the most honorable actions I have ever seen in manufacturing and gave everyone 3 years warning of an impending closure. They didn't sting things out, giving empty commitments to various parties. Just upfront and honest as soon as head office confirmed the decision most expected.